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Does the Italian Cruiser Line Still Suck?

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Hey everyone. I decided to take an indefinite break after the colossal Italian cruiser line disappointment. 

Does the line still suck or is it safe to come back?

Do they still have that SAP trash?

 

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They are the same since their release. If you didnt like them then, I doubt youd like them now. 

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Just now, Rollingonit said:

They are the same since their release. If you didnt like them then, I doubt youd like them now. 

Thanks, I'll try again in 6 months maybe.

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Don’t expect them to suddenly change or anything. 
 

And the Venezia is a fine ship. It’s not “the best”, and has definitive things it can and can’t do, but it’s not a bad ship by any means. 

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I am a pastaboo of sorts, and have loved my Duca and Abruzzi forever (Abruzzi is superb at kiting). Of note, Duca and Abruzzi have regular HE and are 6" gun CL's. 

I have all the Italian cruisers. I like the Giussano and do well with it; its one of the few tier IV ships with a semblance of AA. I want to love Zara, but it struggles to do damage unless you run into a lot of DDs and hammer them with SAP, or get favorable AP situations. 

Amalfi, Brindisi, and Venezia are strong ships. 

Edited by Pugilistic
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They are the same as when released if that is what you mean. They the line never sucked, the ones below t8 could use a buff but thats all. Hell, the t10 is straight OP. Sounds like you failed to adapt to a different type of ammo since SAP is quite nice when used properly.

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It takes roughly 2 or3 updates for the line to see balance changes.

Mainly due to game play stats over time.

The cruisers still give DDs the heebie jeebies.

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The Italian cruisers are not for the faint-hearted.
Hiding behind islands and trying to HE-spam (with ships equipped with SAP) is *not* how to play them.

I play them like rented destroyers.  Life is not boring in an Italian Cruiser.  :-)

I've got the Monte C., the Trento and the Duca D'Aosta and the Tier 1 through 4 cruisers, too.

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23 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

It takes roughly 2 or 3 updates for the line to see balance changes.

Mainly due to game play stats over time.

The cruisers still give DDs the heebie jeebies.

^This.

WG doesn't make balance changes on such short notice.  They need to collect some data first, OP.  They only make really quick changes when what's wrong is dire.  And the Italian CA's don't qualify here.  They function, just not as well as people hoped for.

And I also think that it's worth noting that maybe it's a good thing that they weren't OP on release.  Ditto for the British CAs, from all appearances.  This would seem to help with the power creep problem.

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Venezia has things it’s extremely strong at and things it’s extremely weak at. There is little middle ground and this makes it and other pizza cruisers difficult to play for the weaker skilled player. 

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They're fine as long as you realize that SAP's effectiveness against battleships is extremely limited after their superstructures get saturated. Italian cruisers will consistently alpha DDs and other cruisers to oblivion.

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Venizia is finally working for me after learning to play the midfield, and pushing with BBs and not ahead.

Looking forward to getting to a 19 point commander, to pick up a complete set of skills.

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The 10 is good 9 is ok ,,the rest were so very painful the grind i wanted to chance games ....... O [edited] . And the kleber nerf is [edited] :)

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19 hours ago, _Heebie_Jeebies_ said:

Hey everyone. I decided to take an indefinite break after the colossal Italian cruiser line disappointment. 

Does the line still suck or is it safe to come back?

Do they still have that SAP trash?

 

Still the same... SAP are good DD suppressors and well that's all the line is good for...

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Trento, Zara, and Amalfi, the three I've played so far, don't really suck, they require a very specific approach to do well, and when that approach doesn't fit the situation, they can struggle. 

The Montecockroach does kinda suck.

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On 2/4/2020 at 3:56 PM, KilljoyCutter said:

Trento, Zara, and Amalfi, the three I've played so far, don't really suck, they require a very specific approach to do well, and when that approach doesn't fit the situation, they can struggle. 

The Montecockroach does kinda suck.

Besides the Ducas, they are all are garbage. GARBAGE!

Colossal letdown of epic proportions.

I was soooo disappointed.

If they absolutely had to have SAP it should have been an HE/SAP combo rather than an AP/SAP combo.

Nothing like facing a BB and bouncing shells just to switch shells and bounce some more.

The Brittish line can make due without HE, they bounce a lot but spam a lot.

Italians bounce then wait a long time to bounce again.

Torps suck, secondaries suck. Smoke just lets you escape sucking so you can live to suck again real soon.

Their alleged prettyness is unimportant. 

Their versatility sucks.

Ther armor and citidel sucks.

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

There are always one or two people in a forum that will pretend something that sucks doesn't actually suck.

But when the Italian line came out there was a general chorus singing, "suck!"

I dont even need to ask, I bet the historically fake russian navy is still OP.

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3 hours ago, _Heebie_Jeebies_ said:

Besides the Ducas, they are all are garbage. GARBAGE!

Colossal letdown of epic proportions.

I was soooo disappointed.

If they absolutely had to have SAP it should have been an HE/SAP combo rather than an AP/SAP combo.

Nothing like facing a BB and bouncing shells just to switch shells and bounce some more.

The Brittish line can make due without HE, they bounce a lot but spam a lot.

Italians bounce then wait a long time to bounce again.

Torps suck, secondaries suck. Smoke just lets you escape sucking so you can live to suck again real soon.

Their alleged prettyness is unimportant. 

Their versatility sucks.

Ther armor and citidel sucks.

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

Sucks

There are always one or two people in a forum that will pretend something that sucks doesn't actually suck.

But when the Italian line came out there was a general chorus singing, "suck!"

I dont even need to ask, I bet the historically fake russian navy is still OP.

Your most-played (and highest-tier) tech tree Italian cruiser is Trento, with a whopping 12 games.

/thread

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The higher tier Italian cruisers are an example of terrible game design by WG.

Essentially, they suit a back line play style. The torps have a long range, and slow speed, meaning they are not suited for close range play. The hulls are not especially durable or manoeuvrable, and the rate of fire is poor. In essence, they are designed to sit in the back line.

From the back line, attacking DDs and nimble front line cruisers is very difficult. Therefore, the backline cruisers player naturally targets easy damage. They damage farm BBs, and other large, slow cruisers. Sure, they can't start fires, but they can farm damage consistently, especially the higher tiers at IX and X.

They also have smoke, allowing them to escape being targeted and disengage when desirable. 

It is very common to see a Venezia sit in the back rows of the grid for the entire game, and to do very well, individually. I played one match recently where our team lost, but the back line Venezia top scored, and got the most kills. He literally did not move for the first few minutes of the game, and never moved outside the back two rows of the grid until the end of the match. Then he came out to harvest kills fro the low health enemy who had been ground down by braver, more team orientated players.

Still, he got the most XP. He got the most credits. His stats were padded the best. His team lost, but he was alive at the end, and he did well for himself. He never shot his SAP at a DD. Of course. He did not even show himself until the dd war was already over.

Players like this are very bad news for the teams that have them. Obviously, if everyone played in this way, games would end without engagement, because nobody would move off the back line, and the timer would run out with no engagement at all.

These players are parasites. They are in it for themselves, and to farm stats. They manipulate game mechanics and rely upon the decency of team focused players.

Such are the italian cruisers, and the people who harness the strength of the design.

Alaska and Puta Reeko are very similar. They do well, as cruisers, staying in the back lines, letting others soften up the enemy for them to cash in, during the late game. These ships are also very bad new for the team, as they tend to use their radar in self defence, and not to hunt enemy DDs in the early game. High teir IJN cruisers are similar.

These long range sniping cruisers are bad for the team because there are limited cruisers places on the team, and every one of these parasites you draw, takes away an available spot that a team player in a Des Moine, Moskva or radar Minno might fill.

In the end, it is very hard to understand why WG are designing such ships, and making them available. Long range sniping cruisers create long range sniping game play, which suits the CV farce, but which is not nearly as fun as brawling mechanics.

The current Clan Battles corroborate the argument presented here. Close range radar cruisers are the rule, while teams with long range snipers tend to lose.

Edited by SidTheBlade

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On 2/4/2020 at 3:05 AM, _Heebie_Jeebies_ said:

Hey everyone. I decided to take an indefinite break after the colossal Italian cruiser line disappointment. 

Does the line still suck or is it safe to come back?

Do they still have that SAP trash?

 

They are different but they definitely dont suck. SAP can do massive amount of damage if you know where to aim. Im not even gonna mention what you can do to DDs with SAP. 

I dont play them often because of the same reason why i dont play zao, hindi and henry anymore. I found them boring to play. 

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 10:04 PM, Kapitan_Wuff said:

They are the same as when released if that is what you mean. They the line never sucked, the ones below t8 could use a buff but thats all. Hell, the t10 is straight OP. Sounds like you failed to adapt to a different type of ammo since SAP is quite nice when used properly.

Doesn't it have a 20s reload on its (5) 203mm 3-barrel turrets?

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I used the 'free' Tier 7 Gorizia along with the Heroic RM Captain in Co-Op during my 3 day ARP Line grind.  I had alot of fun with her.  Good guns, lotsa fireworks when the special Capt. skills were activated, which was quite often.  Fun and engaging!

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11 hours ago, vak_ said:

Your most-played (and highest-tier) tech tree Italian cruiser is Trento, with a whopping 12 games.

/thread

Did you expect me to play a ton of games with ships that I can't stand? What kind of moron are you?

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2 minutes ago, _Heebie_Jeebies_ said:

Did you expect me to play a ton of games with ships that I can't stand? What kind of moron are you?

I hear you there.  Without picking a fight with people, I have to say I get a kick out of those who think its acceptable to say "You need 100+ games in a boat to know if its good or not".

Yeah... this is a game.  Making it anything more than that is kinda stupid.  If it isn't fun after 12 games, it won't be after 15... or 50... or 100.... Maybe Heebie_Jeebie is just faster at understanding his own enjoyment than the person who needs 100 games to know if they like something.

 

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