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Usedcarjock

USS Black: Why this ship is my new favorite DD

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There’s something to be said about a destroyer that carries radar. Contesting caps is crucial to the success of the team, as the flow of battle is typically dictated by who is in command of the battlefield. The British and German Destroyer lines can do this rather well given the right circumstances, however their hydro acoustic search more often than not acts as more of a defensive cooldown versus an offensive cooldown. Granted, there have been numerous occasions where an offensive hydro was used to great affect, but in most cases, this would require a destroyer to push uncomfortably close to the enemy line of fire. That is where USS Black changes things.

7.5 kilometer radar provides one of the most beneficial advantages to DD players who seek to push objectives. It provides the user a cushion to fire unperturbed by enemy combatants, as well as provide spotting for their teammates behind them. Twenty seconds under fire is an eternity, and with enough concentrated effort, is a death sentence to any DD. 

Now I know you must be asking: what is the trade off for such power? Well, that is where the USS Black gets even more interesting. The Black’s torpedos have a range of 13.7 kilometers, which is remarkable for US destroyers. Their damage is also fantastic, sitting at 21,000 alpha damage, 2,000 more than her sister Fletcher. However, while such range and damage is beneficial, therein also lies the Black’s weakness: the speed of these torpedos. 47 knots is painfully slow, and for the first few games I was at my wits end trying to figure out how to work around these torpedos. Was the Black simply just a glorified gunboat? That’s when I realized a partial workaround: Torpedo Acceleration. That’s also when the Black changed dramatically for me.

The speed is still noticeable, but for a range decrease to 11 km, which honestly is more than adequate at even tier 10, the torpedos provided a far more nasty result. Ships still have an easier time dodging these torpedos versus a Fletcher, but if they do get hit they are going to lose a massive chunk of their HP. 
 

Overall, the USS Black initially had me on the fence on whether it was a good purchase or not. Now that I understand how to play her, I can fully agree that she is a wonderful ship worth her weight in steel, and this is coming from a captain who is an average destroyer captain. Akizuki move over, there’s a new favorite cap contester in port.

 

 

Edited by Usedcarjock
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1 minute ago, Usedcarjock said:

There’s something to be said about a destroyer that carries radar. Contesting caps is crucial to the success of the team, as the flow of battle is typically dictated by who is in command of the battlefield. The British and German Destroyer lines can do this rather well given the right circumstances, however their hydro acoustic search more often than not acts as more of a defensive cooldown versus an offensive cooldown. Granted, there have been numerous occasions where an offensive hydro was used to great affect, but in most cases, this would require a destroyer to push uncomfortably close to the enemy line of fire. That is where USS Black changes things.

7.5 kilometer radar provides one of the most beneficial advantages to DD players who seek to push objectives. It provides the user a cushion to fire unperturbed by enemy combatants, as well as provide spotting for their teammates behind them. Twenty seconds under fire is an eternity, and with enough concentrated effort, is a death sentence to any DD. 

Now I know you must be asking: what is the trade off for such power? Well, that is where the USS Black gets even more interesting. The Black’s torpedos have a range of 13.7 kilometers, which is remarkable for US destroyers. Their damage is also fantastic, sitting at 21,000 alpha damage, 2,000 more than her sister Fletcher. However, while such range and damage is beneficial, therein also lies the Black’s weakness: the speed of these torpedos. 47 knots is painfully slow, and for the first few games I was at my wits end trying to figure out how to work around these torpedos. Was the Black simply just a glorified gunboat? That’s when I realized a partial workaround: Torpedo Acceleration. That’s also when the Black changed dramatically for me.

The speed is still noticeable, but for a range decrease to 11 km, which honestly is more than adequate at even tier 10, the torpedos provided a far more nasty result. Ships still have an easier time dodging these torpedos versus a Fletcher, but if they do get hit they are going to lose a massive chunk of their HP. 
 

Overall, the USS Black initially had me on the fence on whether it was a good purchase or not. Now that I understand how to play her, I can fully agree that she is a wonderful ship worth her weight in steel, and this is coming from a captain who is an average destroyer captain. Akizuki move over, there’s a new favorite cap contester in town.

 

 

Just a note, but you can mount RADAR on T8+ PA DDs, but it takes the place of smoke. Black's RADAR takes the place of the speed boost which is easier to give up. I like my Black DD I just got this Christmas.

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I plan on getting this ship as a Sims v2.0.  I have no intention of running radar on it. 

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While TA  is useful on Black, I get far more hits from just going with regular sea mines. 

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I'm glad OP likes the boat it's not a bad boat,  I'd rather be in a Jutland though

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31 minutes ago, AnimaL21 said:

I plan on getting this ship as a Sims v2.0.  I have no intention of running radar on it. 

You don't have a choice.  Radar is a mandatory consumable on Black.

31 minutes ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

While TA  is useful on Black, I get far more hits from just going with regular sea mines. 

Either way, the torps are so slow the trick is to not even use the torp lead indicator.  Flood choke points and areas where you think the enemy is going to be, rather than where the indicator points.

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3 minutes ago, NoLoveForPhatShips said:

I'm glad OP likes the boat it's not a bad boat,  I'd rather be in a Jutland though

I have Black too, but like you, would also rather be in a different ship (Z-46) when it comes to cap contesting in T9 destroyers.

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35 minutes ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

While TA  is useful on Black, I get far more hits from just going with regular sea mines. 

Yep. Haven't played mine a lot. But I'm amazed how often I launch some for area denial and see hits show up much later.

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48 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

You don't have a choice.  Radar is a mandatory consumable on Black.

According to wows wiki, this is not accurate.  There it states that you can use slot 3 for boost, DFAA, or radar.   Someone above eluded to that a little.  

That part of the wiki page made me excited to get it, as a better conceal but worse handling sims, or a fletcher that doesnt need a dedicated captain.    If you are right, and the wiki page is in fact inaccurate, then i will not be buying it at all, and thank you for pointing out that error,  lol.  

 

Can anyone confirm you can dismount radar on Black? 

 

 

Edited by AnimaL21
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1 hour ago, Usedcarjock said:

There’s something to be said about a destroyer that carries radar. Contesting caps is crucial to the success of the team, as the flow of battle is typically dictated by who is in command of the battlefield. The British and German Destroyer lines can do this rather well given the right circumstances, however their hydro acoustic search more often than not acts as more of a defensive cooldown versus an offensive cooldown. Granted, there have been numerous occasions where an offensive hydro was used to great affect, but in most cases, this would require a destroyer to push uncomfortably close to the enemy line of fire. That is where USS Black changes things.

7.5 kilometer radar provides one of the most beneficial advantages to DD players who seek to push objectives. It provides the user a cushion to fire unperturbed by enemy combatants, as well as provide spotting for their teammates behind them. Twenty seconds under fire is an eternity, and with enough concentrated effort, is a death sentence to any DD. 

Now I know you must be asking: what is the trade off for such power? Well, that is where the USS Black gets even more interesting. The Black’s torpedos have a range of 13.7 kilometers, which is remarkable for US destroyers. Their damage is also fantastic, sitting at 21,000 alpha damage, 2,000 more than her sister Fletcher. However, while such range and damage is beneficial, therein also lies the Black’s weakness: the speed of these torpedos. 47 knots is painfully slow, and for the first few games I was at my wits end trying to figure out how to work around these torpedos. Was the Black simply just a glorified gunboat? That’s when I realized a partial workaround: Torpedo Acceleration. That’s also when the Black changed dramatically for me.

The speed is still noticeable, but for a range decrease to 11 km, which honestly is more than adequate at even tier 10, the torpedos provided a far more nasty result. Ships still have an easier time dodging these torpedos versus a Fletcher, but if they do get hit they are going to lose a massive chunk of their HP. 
 

Overall, the USS Black initially had me on the fence on whether it was a good purchase or not. Now that I understand how to play her, I can fully agree that she is a wonderful ship worth her weight in steel, and this is coming from a captain who is an average destroyer captain. Akizuki move over, there’s a new favorite cap contester in port.

 

 

The original torpedoes are for area denial and to stop a push.

You are a Fletcher so you can use those guns.

The biggest problem with her, radar. Everyone knows it's a potential game winner and will kill you if your spotted. I have never had a dd more focused down than that ship.

....

Once you get a Benham you realize you wasted steel....

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2 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

Overall, the USS Black initially had me on the fence on whether it was a good purchase or not

I was in the same boat. The difference in torp speed was enough to make me say. This is not a Fletcher. After I come to terms with that fact I started liking her more.

2 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

I like my Black DD I just got this Christmas

This

2 hours ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

While TA  is useful on Black, I get far more hits from just going with regular sea mines

This

1 hour ago, NoLoveForPhatShips said:

I'd rather be in a Jutland though

Grinding the RN DD line currently. I recently got the IJN Tasmanian Devil Kitakaze. I love playing DD's. When the regular rank season is on T9 all I had was Fletcher and Benham. Which in random and in divs they shine. When solo and forced cap contesting. I found myself bullied and sank by the Jutland, Z-46, and Black.

1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

Either way, the torps are so slow the trick is to not even use the torp lead indicator.  Flood choke points and areas where you think the enemy is going to be, rather than where the indicator points

This to the 10th power.

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2 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

You don't have a choice.  Radar is a mandatory consumable on Black.

Either way, the torps are so slow the trick is to not even use the torp lead indicator.  Flood choke points and areas where you think the enemy is going to be, rather than where the indicator points.

Great tip!!

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I don't own this DD but I had tremendous respect for Black when they were enemy ships contesting caps and doing anti-DD work.

 

The torps are funny.  Everyone laughs at the Slowpedoes, yet those things wreck people.  Of course, seeing such performances, this was when the DD was new and it was only being played by extremely good players who were the only ones with the amount of Steel required to get ships like Flint, Black, etc.

 

There's also a good number of players playing DDs who aren't familiar with Black's abilities.  She always had been a very rare DD.  Black is a nasty surprise for those guys that aren't ready in dealing with her.  Watched them ravage my team's DDs too many times.  Last time I was in a 2-ship Division.  I was in a Montana, my friend in a Henri.  We had a Kagero ahead of us and he was going to the cap.  We were supporting him.  He briefly spotted a Black in the cap with him and then he committed the greatest sin.  He set up a big smoke screen in the cap and then stopped.

 

Me and my friend were alarmed, Kagero was committing a huge mistake.  I got on match chat trying to type in and warn him that Black had Radar and the torps were very low detection.  But it was too late.  The torps came, surprising Kagero who got hit by 1 for a lot of damage.  Then we could see the shells starting to arrive.  Black used its Radar to find Kagero in smoke and finish it off with guns.  It was over.  Black had some ships behind it, but my friend in Henri can't go running down a DD with BBs and Cruisers shooting at him at the same time he tried.  That was it.  Cap was lost, the entire flank was lost, we had to retreat and link up with other players.

Just like that.

It was simple, routine for what the Black player was doing, made even easier with an opponent who had no idea what her capabilities were.  It wouldn't surprise me if you went to a lot of players, showed them a picture of Black and asked what special things it can do, they'd have no idea.

 

The other worst occasions dealing with her is when she is part of a Division of ships.  F--k that.  I remember seeing a Triple Black Division once but they were on the enemy team.  I was playing a BB and I watched our DDs get ravaged and killed off by them 1 by 1, losing caps 1 by 1.  Their Cruisers and Battleships were just following behind them, letting them do the real work and keeping the rest of us back.  Radar Cruisers of our team couldn't deal with them, not without getting shot to pieces by the BBs.  Yeah, we got steamrolled.  When our DD screen was destroyed, the flood of Black torpedoes came.  From 3 Black DDs, that's a lot of Slowpedoes, but they were wrecking people and pushed the team back and back.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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8 hours ago, AnimaL21 said:

According to wows wiki, this is not accurate.  There it states that you can use slot 3 for boost, DFAA, or radar.   Someone above eluded to that a little.  

That part of the wiki page made me excited to get it, as a better conceal but worse handling sims, or a fletcher that doesnt need a dedicated captain.    If you are right, and the wiki page is in fact inaccurate, then i will not be buying it at all, and thank you for pointing out that error,  lol.  

 

Can anyone confirm you can dismount radar on Black? 

 

 

You can. Doesn't mean you should though. I run my normal American dd capt in it. 

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I like USS Black for a different and purely academic reason.  Check her torpedo damage and then test it against different ships.  The numbers won't add up and for very interesting reasons.

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54 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I like USS Black for a different and purely academic reason.  Check her torpedo damage and then test it against different ships.  The numbers won't add up and for very interesting reasons.

It's got something to do with the blast radius of the torps, right?

In fact, I recall that you said the torpedoes were bugged way back when the ship launched. Was that just...whatever is going on?

I gotta admit, as someone who's been playing a lot of the Black lately, I'm curious about what's going on with the torps.

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I like USS Black for a different and purely academic reason.  Check her torpedo damage and then test it against different ships.  The numbers won't add up and for very interesting reasons.

I'm sure many of us would LOVE to test it out LWM but very few guys even got a shot at having that Steel Ship.  Now, if one were to magically appear in my port for me to keep at no cost to me, I'd like to try it out :Smile_trollface:

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49 minutes ago, Muninn77 said:

It's got something to do with the blast radius of the torps, right?

In fact, I recall that you said the torpedoes were bugged way back when the ship launched. Was that just...whatever is going on?

I gotta admit, as someone who's been playing a lot of the Black lately, I'm curious about what's going on with the torps.

You've got it.  Torpedoes act like HE shells but with an additional blast radius effect.  Black's blast radius is bloody enormous -- like ridiculously so, so it guarantees that it gets maximum coverage for this blast effect.  In effect, it makes the torpedoes more effective against ships with very heavy anti-torpedo defense but less powerful overall against ships with little to none compared to other fish.

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9 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

You've got it.  Torpedoes act like HE shells but with an additional blast radius effect.  Black's blast radius is bloody enormous -- like ridiculously so, so it guarantees that it gets maximum coverage for this blast effect.  In effect, it makes the torpedoes more effective against ships with very heavy anti-torpedo defense but less powerful overall against ships with little to none compared to other fish.

How are Black's torpedo blast radius compared to IJN torps? Are they similar or is Black's torps better in that regard?

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15 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

How are Black's torpedo blast radius compared to IJN torps? Are they similar or is Black's torps better in that regard?

Here's the blast radius of all torpedoes at tier IX, from smallest to largest:

  • 15.0m - Ostergotland
  • 16.5m - Roon, Siegfried, Dmitri Donskoi, Saint Louis, Brindisi, Benham, Z-46, Tashkent, Udaloi,
  • 18.0m - Ibuki (Type 90s), Drake, Neptune, Fletcher (Mk 15s), Neustrashimy, Jutland, Chung Mu (Mk 15s), Mogador
  • 19.5m - Ibuki (Type 93s), Yugumo (Type 93 mod 2, F3s), Kitakaze (Type 93 mod 2, F3s), Fletcher (Mk16s), Chung Mu (Mk 16s)
  • 21.0m - Yugumo (Type 93 mod 3), Kitakaze (Type 93 mod 3)
  • 27.0m - Black

Black is in a class all by herself.  Nothing gets close.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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16 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Either way, the torps are so slow the trick is to not even use the torp lead indicator.  Flood choke points and areas where you think the enemy is going to be, rather than where the indicator points.

^This so much.  On maps that are divided into approach lanes, just lob torps down the lane and sail on.  About the time your torps are almost loaded, torp hit, flooding, and kill ribbons will pop up.  Rinse and repeat as needed.  

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6 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Here's the blast radius of all torpedoes at tier IX, from smallest to largest:

  • 15.0m - Ostergotland
  • 16.5m - Roon, Siegfried, Dmitri Donskoi, Saint Louis, Brindisi, Benham, Z-46, Tashkent, Udaloi,
  • 18.0m - Ibuki (Type 90s), Drake, Neptune, Fletcher (Mk 15s), Neustrashimy, Jutland, Chung Mu (Mk 15s), Mogador
  • 19.5m - Ibuki (Type 93s), Yugumo (Type 93 mod 2, F3s), Kitakaze (Type 93 mod 2, F3s), Fletcher (Mk16s), Chung Mu (Mk 16s)
  • 21.0m - Yugumo (Type 93 mod 3), Kitakaze (Type 93 mod 3)
  • 27.0m - Black

Black is in a class all by herself.  Nothing gets close.

You know, I didn't even realize there was a blast radius on torps.  I thought it was only on HE shells.

This refers to the secondary damage that can incapacitate things like engine and rudder, right?

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27 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

You know, I didn't even realize there was a blast radius on torps.  I thought it was only on HE shells.

This refers to the secondary damage that can incapacitate things like engine and rudder, right?

Yes, with a big ol' butt.

Back in Closed Beta, all HE attacks had an AOE element that could strip hit points too -- it's still calculated in game, it just doesn't do anything to Aircraft Carriers, Cruisers, Battleships and Destroyers.  However it seems to be implemented to some degree with submarines.  To what extent, I haven't managed to test yet.  Torpedoes are the only attack that preserves this AOE effect, causing splash damage to multiple hull sections, stripping the ship's hit points along with damaging modules too.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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11 hours ago, GandalfTehGray said:

You can. Doesn't mean you should though. I run my normal American dd capt in it. 

Thank you all for confirming this can be removed.  

 

 

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