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MaIacca

Subs vs. BBs - fear justified?

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Here is my fear. I admit freely, it is a FEAR and it may or may not become a FACT.

It is already possible (especially when playing BB) to get wailed by a swarm of torpedoes that you can't even see until they are unavoidable, fired by a ship (a smoked DD or CL) you can't even see or shoot back at. In the real navy in the real war, there would have been DDs and maybe some CAs who were both equipped to and required as part of their mission to hunt/harass/destroy subs and keep them the hell away from BBs and CVs.

As this is a video game, there are no such command structures, rules or mission assignments, I fear that this will remain the same except now BBs lives will get even harder due to subs. Most DD players (no offense) are focused on hiding out until they can peek out long enough to launch their own torps then go hide again, so I assume the majority of them will not be willing to change to a team-focused/"let's go hunt subs to help team" style. And even if they WERE so inclined, unless I missed something it's not like WG is adding anti-sub weapons to these existing ships. So in a world where BBs are already subject to, as stated above, getting wailed by a swarm of torpedoes that you can't even see until they are unavoidable, fired by a ship you can't even see or shoot back at now we're going to add submarines? 

I know this post may draw a lot of "stop whining, BB main crybaby" replies. But consider that people already yell at BBs for charging in ("don't YOLO") and ALSO yell at BBs for hanging back. So now wherever we go it's gonna be total torp city. wth.

Someone that knows a good reason I should not look to the future with dread please enlighten me. 

Edited by MaIacca
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I hope you have your Nomex underwear on. Going to get a bit warm soon.

 

Cirran

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Just now, Cirran said:

I hope you have your Nomex underwear on. Going to get a bit warm soon.

 

Cirran

You may be right. I did try to use phrasing indicating I am looking for hope/enlightenment, not just straight hating on subs with no context. IF someone can come on here and explain to me why my fear is unjustified, without just saying "shut up BB whiner" then I will definitely hear them out. Keep in mind my very first sentence is "Here is my fear. I admit freely, it is a FEAR and it may or may not become a FACT." but I also feel I painted a picture that does happen to many players already...even before subs.

What is supposed to be the counter to them? Will it rely entirely on people being willing to forego stats and be focused on anti-sub support? Cause if it is, that's not gonna work out. Especially when all the daily missions and events start being like "hit BBs 100 times with sub torpedoes" etc. etc.

 

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If it gets too bad WG could always modify the attack/spotter planes to carry depthcharges. Though ATM attackers seemed to be bugged and often don't attack enemy planes, so if this bug carries over it might just cause additional heartache.:fish_boom:

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Subs are not in the game yet... When they do, as of 0.9.1 BBs will have torp detection buffed so high that subs need to be right next to you to sink you.

If that didn;t help then, the nerf bat on everything torp/flood related... Just like they did to the

  • IJN line
  • Flood Mechanic
  • Aerial torps
  • Surface torps.

ETC.

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4 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Subs are not in the game yet... 

See the source image

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23 minutes ago, MaIacca said:

It is already possible (especially when playing BB) to get wailed by a swarm of torpedoes that you can't even see until they are unavoidable, fired by a ship (a smoked DD or CL) you can't even see or shoot back at. In the real navy in the real war, there would have been DDs and maybe some CAs who were both equipped to and required as part of their mission to hunt/harass/destroy subs and keep them the hell away from BBs and CVs.

Such a huge part of torpedo threats can be mitigated by situational awareness and preparation (not going in straight line, team communication, etc). No matter how badly a sub can hurt a BB if/when they are released, I have full confidence that a large part of the threat can be mitigated by simply paying attention.

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i wouldnt worry, WG is against literally everything thats got torps as its big thing, just look at the IJN torpedo DDs, i forsee subs getting nerfed hard to where theyre in just as bad a place as the "torpedo" IJN DD line, with torps that take over 2 minutes to reload, even with all the torp reload upgrades, and torp detection that lets you see them from the moon

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1 minute ago, _BBaby said:

Such a huge part of torpedo threats can be mitigated by situational awareness and preparation (not going in straight line, team communication, etc). No matter how badly a sub can hurt a BB if/when they are released, I have full confidence that a large part of the threat can be mitigated by simply paying attention.

I get your point, and I certainly won't argue against the value (generally speaking) of the easy to say but not as easy to do "pay attention" salve, but if you try to go in and tank a point you already have to worry about getting focused, burnt, and torped. So BBs will be forced to hang back, and then get yelled at for "Kill stealing."

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32 minutes ago, MaIacca said:

Most DD players (no offense) are focused on hiding out until they can peek out long enough to launch their own torps then go hide again, so I assume the majority of them will not be willing to change to a team-focused/"let's go hunt subs to help team" style. And even if they WERE so inclined, unless I missed something it's not like WG is adding anti-sub weapons to these existing ships.

DD will have anti sub measures, we will all see if they include anti sub on other classes as their testing continues 

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2 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

DD will have anti sub measures, we will all see if they include anti sub on other classes as their testing continues 

They may indeed introduce the feature....but good luck convincing DD players to take one for the team and grind out a workmanlike existence chasing subs when the glory is in DMG stats and all the accompanying daily missions upon subs release will be like "get 1000 torpedo hits." This could be a very glaring example of "how this worked in real life" vs. "how this will work in a game where the primary motivator is personal gain"

Edited by MaIacca

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A good way to avoid being torpedoed by them is not sitting in one spot tunnel-visioned and making sure you maneuver properly.

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Say you're a IJN torp boat main. Are ou going to want to change your playstyle to trolling at slow speeds launch DCs out the back of your ship? Doubt it.

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3 minutes ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

A good way to avoid being torpedoed by them is not sitting in one spot tunnel-visioned and making sure you maneuver properly.

Please give me the benefit of the doubt that I posted this while NOT doing that. In fact if anything I may be TOO mobile as a BB player in the current meta. It is SOOOO easy to just type "just be smart and maneuver properly." It is another to do so in the game when you are getting focused, burnt, and torped as is, OR yelled at for playing safe.

Edited by MaIacca
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17 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

GIE70tD.gif

Yo where could you buy one of those scoopers?

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Don't worry OP battleship players are what WG thrives on they will dumb it down to where it wont hurt u

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  Subs while tear this game apart.

   Homing torpedoes what a load of literal bologna.

   DDS get asw.................uh DDS are too busy dodging OP CV that hunt them relentlessly RT feeble AA. And knife fighting to death because that's more important then staying alive for your team. 

     To much expected of DDS and subs will break the bank. 

     Why would subs do anything other that go straight for helpless bb and CV. 

    Subs are a terrible idea for this game.

    OP is right to be nervous

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Far more worried for destroyers, this new thing that significantly out spots you, can only be attacked at point blank range, has one-shot homing torpedoes... Yeah, can't wait to be badgered into going on a sub hunt toward the red Zao and GK...

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8 hours ago, MaIacca said:

Here is my fear.......

Fear not, DDs were originally the counter to BBs, they now have a 'role'.

Torpedoes were the fear of BBs...radar to spot the DDs, hydro to spot the torps; torps hit around 10% of the time on average across all servers.

When torps do hit, their Alpha can be reduced by up to half by torp belts. Flooding has also been nerfed.

When CVs were re-introduced and did well against all the other 3 ship types, 2 patches were released in order to make the DDs the most viable target. But even WG realised that dumping on the worst surviving ship type in game was stupid, so lowered the CV effectiveness even more.

Apart from the firepower from other BBs there is only one thing that hurts BBs and that's fire.....and WG are looking at the fire/IFHE now.

 

The only thing BBs have to fear are other BBs, and WG can't do anything about that lol. 

WG will launch subs with fanfare, they will sell premiums etc BUT there is no way WG will allow any ship type to mess with the ship type most played by players: the BB!

History has more than proven this.

Edited by _WaveRider_
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Homing torpedo able to do citadel damage can really screw hard BB or even cruisers but then again, WG will most likely give sub something like 2 min CD.

 

So you're playing a ship that can basically nuke a ship every 2 min provided you either torps correctly or find dumbs targets and do nothing while your torps are on CD.

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I was in the last sub test. Here were my observations:

1) While the subs did not fully surface, they were still detectable at periscope depth. If you were at periscope depth within range of a BBs secondaries, you would not last long. This also meant you were target-able with main guns, which can and did happen.

2) While the primary torpedo launching method required a lock on with two successful pings to target the citadel, if you lost either ping before the torpedo struck it would only hold on the same bearing and not continue to home in. Also, if you launched at an end on target the torpedo would arc around to try and hit the center of the ship. This made it relatively easy to avoid.

3) Both DDs and some CLs had depth charges. They took some time to get used to, but were very effective once you did. I would say the sub hunting in a DD was actually kind of fun.

Note: This was a test, so things are likely to change. Some things definitely needed to. The primary sub view, to be honest, was a bit boring. Blue sea screen most of the time. Underwater speed was another. Also, firing torpedoes without targeting only worked on surface ships if you were at periscope depth. Otherwise they would run deep. Lastly, the test was only a mid-tier test. As we all know, mid tier is considerably different than top tier gameplay.

Edited by Nolo_00
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