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Krieg121

Mercy rule has GOT TO GO

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WnG has screwed up bot battles big time w/ this half assed Mercy rule nonsense. For those of us who try and grind for XP, silver..etc...this is making it impossible. Not to mention playing bots is more fun (for me) cuz i dont have to put up with all the [edited] in Random...now Mercy rules..and invasion of the randoms...wth is the point of playing this game anymore?

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2 minutes ago, Krieg121 said:

WnG has screwed up bot battles big time w/ this half assed Mercy rule nonsense. For those of us who try and grind for XP, silver..etc...this is making it impossible. Not to mention playing bots is more fun (for me) cuz i dont have to put up with all the [edited] in Random...now Mercy rules..and invasion of the randoms...wth is the point of playing this game anymore?

For fun, entertainment, and and crushing the enemy before you.   

While I don't COOP much, I would have to agree with you.  During the snowflake event there were some bot battles that were horribly short.  A win is a win for those events I get it, but with the lower payout of xp/credits etc. I can see why it would take forever to move up the lines.

Also, shorter games make you hit that battle button more often, using more signals, camo etc.

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7 hours ago, Krieg121 said:

w/ this half assed Mercy rule nonsense. For those of us who try and grind for XP, silver..etc...this is making it impossible. Not to mention playing bots is more fun (for me) cuz i dont have to put up with all the [edited] in Random...now Mercy rules..and invasion of the randoms...wth is the point of playing this game anymore?

Your views of Co-Op is distorted. I dont want to be the bearer of reality or bad news but...

Co-op is the learning/practice/experimental center of the game...
If you want to be a pupil for life cool stay there its cool... But dont give bad recommendations to change Co-op to what is not (a place to avoid the other game modes)...

I like fast battles in co-op, I feel changes to 0.8.11 has increase the avg co-op game by 2 min..

OP, you can quit when you like... Continuing the "mercy" rule propaganda will not change co-op for 2020. Co-op is not the priority for 2020...

GL and HF...

Edited by Navalpride33
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6 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Your views of Co-Op is distorted. I dont want to be the bearer of reality or bad news but...

Co-op is the learning/practice/experimental center of the game...
If you want to be a pupil for life cool stay there... But dont give bad recommendations to change Co-op to what is not (a place to avoid the other game modes)...

I like fast battles in co-op, I feel changes to 0.8.11 has increase the avg co-op game by 2 min..

OP, you can quit when you like... Continuing the "mercy" rule propaganda will not change co-op for 2020. Co-op is not the priority for 2020...

GL and HF...

Hate to break it to you pal, but co-op is NOT simply a training center.

A huge percentage of the playerbase plays this as their main form of engagement in the game.

EDIT: And to the OP - completely agree, the asinine PvP Mercy Rule is completely unneeded and more importantly UNWANTED in co-op.

 

Edited by capncrunch21
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Here are some tips to circumvent the mercy rule.

And this applies if you have a full team of humans.

This tip benefits all.

In a cap situation, let the bots cap one of them and let the points counter go up.

Humans should set up an ambush at the other caps and engage any bots at those caps with hit and run to lure in more to the team.

If you see a BB near dead, but another BB is full health, cease fire on the near dead one and hit the healthy one.

The goal is to evenly take down the HP of all bots.

Let DDs get the opportunity to hit the ship closest to them and hit the one furthest from him instead.

If you see a cruiser in a gun duel with another cruiser, let him have the opportunity to engage and only help if asked.

Attack only targets that players, so engaged, ask for help.

Let CVs provide support when asked and if a CV has hit a ship, allow opportunity to let CV finish.

 

In cases where you are but a few humans, the best you can do is hit the high HP ships.

If it's you a few others and a CV, then ask for a spot.

If you can't get the DDs fast, then your bot DDs will suicide. That is actually good. But you will have to give a cap up.

I played a co-op with just a CV and we worked together to farm the crap and we went the distance.

I also did this as a CV.

When in my BB, best help for CV is HE shell the large ships of AA. Flank wide of a DD laying a wide smoke and fire from behind the smoke barrier well away or flank out wide to take advantage of DD torps forcing bots to take evasive. Wait patiently for the bot to commit to the the turn.

When in a CV, spot and get a big ship to use damage con so a cruiser can set it on fire. Get yours of any ship furthest from team. If a team BB nails a bot long range, well that can't be helped

Drop fighters for a DD and help if he gets over-run.

In a cruiser, fire support, ask for help if in a pickle, and lend a hand to other ships if asked.

In a DD, lay smoke in a wide arc, but stay stealthy and make contact with bots. Flank out and lay your spread. If a gun boat, you still lay the smoke wide, but pick an edge to fire within that smoke flanked wide. This gives you fire and flood opportunity.

It's courtesy that separates co-op from randoms.

This will counter the mercy rule to some extent until WG revisits the rule again.

Have fun out there.

<O

 

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12 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Hate to break it to you pal, but co-op is NOT simply a training center.

A huge percentage of the playerbase plays this as their main form of engagement in the game.

This is distorted thinking.... Co-op population as itself.... Is very low..

In other words... Everyone subsidies Co-op in the game because of its purpose in the game as I mentioned in my OP...

That is why its not a priority in 2020... Now, you can still live in a fantasy of Co-op being other then what I stated... HOWEVER, Co-op population is very low...

BTW

There is no such thing as a "mercy rule," that is a propaganda term. WG cant nerf OP humans that refuse to play within the game rules.

Edited by Navalpride33
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For all the cries to remove the mercy rule from CO-OP,  you will have to prove that it needs to be removed from Random battles as well. Wargaming does consider them the same except for the bot team. I do play all the game modes except clan games, and have multiple different rules for basically the same game play would not be good for the overall game play. So if mercy rule is to leave, it will have to go from all game modes. Good luck on getting Wargaming to agree to that. Best of luck with that. For me, it can stay or go, doesn't really matter to me.

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57 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Hate to break it to you pal, but co-op is NOT simply a training center.

A huge percentage of the playerbase plays this as their main form of engagement in the game.

EDIT: And to the OP - completely agree, the asinine PvP Mercy Rule is completely unneeded and more importantly UNWANTED in co-op.

 

The main function of coop is indeed to be an analog of randoms, and to provide training for players. The fact that people like you and me use it as their main entertainment in this game does not change this fact. 

I personally don't see why people get so worked up on the mercy rule. I remember when there wasn't one, and sort of recall when it was introduced because I was surprised when the match ended, never noticed an effect on earnings at the end of a match. And I think you will find getting 10 quick matches in an hour will net more than 7 or 8 slower matches in the same time

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

This is distorted thinking.... Co-op population as itself.... Is very low..

COOP is a minority to be sure, but a very low pop? Nope.

Edited by RipNuN2
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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

COOP is a minority to be sure, but a very low pop? Nope.

The faster you come to that reality... The faster you can see why CO-op is not the priority for 2020...

To low of a population...

 

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2 hours ago, Krieg121 said:

WnG has screwed up bot battles big time w/ this half assed Mercy rule nonsense. For those of us who try and grind for XP, silver..etc...this is making it impossible. Not to mention playing bots is more fun (for me) cuz i dont have to put up with all the [edited] in Random...now Mercy rules..and invasion of the randoms...wth is the point of playing this game anymore?

The win condition where a teams points get reduced to zero is not new to the game.  Co-op is not meant to be a place to get lots of silver and XP.  It never should be unless they make the bots a lot harder and able to win 40- 50% of the time.  I have a feeling Co-op players would not like that change though.  If you don't like the game stop playing. 

 

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9 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

COOP is a minority to be sure, but a very low pop? Nope.

As usual your on target

5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The faster you come to that reality... The faster you can see why CO-op is not the priority for 2020...

To low of a population...

 

Reality is many of us play few randoms for many reasons. There is a larger population than many realise however, your correct that it's not a huge priority with all the other gaffes and mistakes WG has made as of late.

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1 hour ago, capncrunch21 said:

A huge percentage of the playerbase plays this as their main form of engagement in the game.

A huge percentage?  Do you have some data you could post to prove this?  I hate when people make up statistics.

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Just now, Admiral_Andy said:

A huge percentage?  Do you have some data you could post to prove this?  I hate when people make up statistics.

Roughly a third of the playerbase plays primarily PVE battles.

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1 hour ago, CHBanger said:

Hey ho!

Mercy rule has got to go!

Hey ho!

:cat_cool:

You gotta get your protest chant down better.

Quote

Hey hey, ho ho!

The Mercy Rule has got to go!

 

Not that I'm endorsing this.  Only helping out a fellow forumite with his chant.

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Andy said:

A huge percentage?  Do you have some data you could post to prove this?  I hate when people make up statistics.

He dont, he is inventing stats... WG has the numbers.. As far they're concern, Co-op dedicated acts. are very low...

So low that they're happy with Co-op atm and are not going to change/tweak it at all for 2020...

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7 minutes ago, Admiral_Andy said:

The win condition where a teams points get reduced to zero is not new to the game.  Co-op is not meant to be a place to get lots of silver and XP.  It never should be unless they make the bots a lot harder and able to win 40- 50% of the time.  I have a feeling Co-op players would not like that change though.  If you don't like the game stop playing. 

 

1. I agree with the first sentence entirely.

2. I think that some coop players would feel this way.  What percentage, I don't know.  Personally, I wish that coop was harder, though it wouldn't have to be to the point where the bots won 40-50% of the time.  Heck, 20-30% or even 30-40% would be an improvement.  There is nothing enjoyable about the current coop where the bots are so gad damned brain dead that they charge straight at the player team.  The bots are stupid as all heck.  They never use their consumables in an intelligent manner.  

I have to really question how people can find playing against bots that are this stupid to be fun in any way imaginable.  The only time that there's a challenge is when the player team is about 50% or more friendly bots, and the live players have to really work to win.  But even then, it's a case of having to work against bots that are still stupid as hell, and it's only the fact that the bots are outnumbering the live players that's presenting any sort of challenge.

Personally, I think that coop has some legitimate potential, but it would require some time and effort on WG's part to make it happen.

Some suggestions:

A. Do away with mirroring team comps by type and tier.  Admittedly, switching from perfect ship for ship mirroring to merely type/tier mirroring has been a marginal improvement because it created some variety.  Players got to see different ships with mildly different challenges.  But it's not enough.

What I might suggest is coming up with a system by which players are presented with bot teams that would a) have more ships than the players do and b) some of those bot ships might even be from tiers below what would be normally expected with normal MM.  That is, say you were in a tier 10 coop battle with a regular mix of tier 8-10 ships, the bot team might also have some tier 7 and even tier 6 ships added to the mix that you had to deal with.

 

B. Improve bot CV AI.  Right now, bot CV planes are completely useless, UNLESS you get within a certain distance of the bot CV, at which time, the CV's AI gets better.  Let bot CVs have a pretty decent AI for its planes all the time.

 

C. This suggestion might be asking a lot of WG, but here goes.  Consider separating Coop client and server code from Random battles client and server code, so that things can be done for Coop battles that aren't done for Random Battles.  One of the most obvious things this could allow would be dealing with the coop mercy rule issue, in any one of a number of ways. 

Another might be to allow different maps to be used for coop, or different battle modes on the same maps.  Here's an example of what could be done with maps.  There are some interesting maps from the various events that aren't seen outside of those events.  These maps are not well suited for random battles, but they might work for coop.  Also consider that random battles maps are often hyper balanced in part out of a desire to use them for clan battles.  Coop only maps wouldn't need this level of hyper balancing.  What I think would be interesting would be to take the Halloween event maps, and "de-Halloween" them to look more like normal Earth environments.  And then use them for coop.

 

I'm gonna stop now as I've run out of ideas.  But I'm sure that more will come to me.  Feel free to criticize, comment, or add more ideas.

Crucis.

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2 hours ago, LadyAnesjka said:

When have co - op ever be fun ?

I find it mind numb boring

It's less stressful than Randoms.

Case in point are all these frustration threads every day, almost all of it during PVP.

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Weren't COOP battles used to be 5v5 or 7v7? Battles usually ended with total elimination. Now with 9v9 the mercy rule ending with 1,2,3+ bots is more noticeable.

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