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crazyferret23777

IJN BB cpt build ?

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I currently have Yamamoto running n all my premium ijn bb's and am using CE. My question is that since IJN bb's are terrible with there concealment anyway would trading CE for vigilance and EL be a better use of 4 skill points? TIA

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I still kept Full Stealth Build for my IJN BBs.  They get pretty bad concealment for a number of them, especially Fuso, and you don't want to make that worse.

Some concealment values with and without CE.

Tier VI Fuso with Camo:  With CE 16.5km.  Without CE is 18.33km.

Tier VII Nagato with Camo:  With CE 14.93km.  Without CE is 16.59km.

Tier VIII Amagi with Camo AND CSM1 equipped:  With CE 13.58km.  Without CE is 15.09km

Tier IX Izumo with Camo AND CSM1 equipped:  With CE 13.51km.  Without CE is 15.01km

Tier IX Premium Musashi and Tier X Yamato with Camo AND CSM1 equipped:  With CE 14.14km.  Without CE is 15.71km.

 

First to get spotted is the first to get focus fired.

There's times where you need to disengage badly, and having worse concealment doesn't help.  To make it even worse, if you are on fire, your surface detection is worsened by 2km.

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the whole concealment rating needs to be adjusted, it should related to ship size more, why is a Yamato have a higher detection than a Izumo, the Izumo is bigger?   Now maybe there is some vertical high in the mix that I am unaware of, how fast a ship is going should also be factored into detection as well in my opinion.

 

But to answer the question I would recommend taking conceal, you have a long reload time and with CE you can break contact much better while doing your long range sniping the Yamato's prefer.

Edited by vikingno2

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3 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I currently have Yamamoto running n all my premium ijn bb's and am using CE. My question is that since IJN bb's are terrible with there concealment anyway would trading CE for vigilance and EL be a better use of 4 skill points? TIA

You want CE in IJN BBs. 

Its the only thing that will allow you to cease fire and stealth up and relocate. Yamato without CE is visible from halfway across the map and you will be focused by cruisers with no way to escape. With CE you will only be visible if you fire, or a DD is spotting you or if you push too far ahead. Yamato is not a frontline ship, its gun perform best far behind. 

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2 hours ago, vikingno2 said:

the whole concealment rating needs to be adjusted, it should related to ship size more, why is a Yamato have a higher detection than a Izumo, the Izumo is bigger?   Now maybe there is some vertical high in the mix that I am unaware of, how fast a ship is going should also be factored into detection as well in my opinion.

Balance is why.

Izumo has had a long troubled history in the game, alongside Iowa (both ships throughout the history of WoWS have hilariously close to identical stats).  Anyways, Izumo did used to have worse concealment but that was altered around December 2018 with a bunch of buffs to help her out.

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CE is not worth it for 4 points IMHO. Tier 8-10 you're going from 15-13.5 detection, 4 points for a kilometer and a half! If you're actively firing every 30 seconds, guess what, your detection just went up to 20+km. Even the tier 6/7 ships are already visible from afar with CE. At least at those tiers the guns you're facing aren't as large, on average, so the threat you're facing is less. Not to mention with all of these ships, you want ships to be firing at you from 15+ km. Drawing fire away from teammates is what you want to do as a battleship. With a 15km reaction gap you have a much better chance to mitigate damage thanks to your turtleback armor. Yes you will take damage, but unless you're broadside you will be fine. Go full survivability build and contribute to your team by tanking damage. From Fuso on, you can tank 3 million potential damage and get some dreadnaught achievements.

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11 minutes ago, Aetius05 said:

CE is not worth it for 4 points IMHO. Tier 8-10 you're going from 15-13.5 detection, 4 points for a kilometer and a half! If you're actively firing every 30 seconds, guess what, your detection just went up to 20+km. Even the tier 6/7 ships are already visible from afar with CE. At least at those tiers the guns you're facing aren't as large, on average, so the threat you're facing is less. Not to mention with all of these ships, you want ships to be firing at you from 15+ km. Drawing fire away from teammates is what you want to do as a battleship. With a 15km reaction gap you have a much better chance to mitigate damage thanks to your turtleback armor. Yes you will take damage, but unless you're broadside you will be fine. Go full survivability build and contribute to your team by tanking damage. From Fuso on, you can tank 3 million potential damage and get some dreadnaught achievements.

IJN BBs don't have much in the way of a turtleback to protect their Citadels.

You can have Survival Build while still having CE.

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7 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I currently have Yamamoto running n all my premium ijn bb's and am using CE. My question is that since IJN bb's are terrible with there concealment anyway would trading CE for vigilance and EL be a better use of 4 skill points? TIA

Whatever you do, don't do what I did, and think you were on your kitakaze captain, putting your 19th point (4 point skill was left) into IFHE.....  huge guns with IFHE.... 

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Full Tank Build

Tier 1: Priority Target, Preventative Maintenance, Expert Loader

Tier 2: Expert Marksman, Adrenaline Rush, Jack of All Trades

Tier 3: Superintendent, Basics of Survivability

Tier 4: Fire Prevention

Concealment build drops Jack of All Trades and two Tier 1 skill for CE.

I recommend CE for competitive modes/high tier battles. Tank build gives you more rounded options and is better for random battles/mid tier. For example, Yamato and Fuso have very different play styles and should have different captains tailored to their traits.

Think of it this way: is it better to resist damage, or not take damage at all? At low to mid tiers, ships do less damage to each other, with HE spam being less prevalent. Building full tank spec is better at this level because resisting damage trumps what little benefit concealment can give. At high tiers, weapon damage ramps up considerably, especially with the prevalence of HE spammers (Smolensk, Colbert, Worcester, etc.). Building for concealment allows you to drop off, retreat, and heal off the fire damage.

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8 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I currently have Yamamoto running n all my premium ijn bb's and am using CE. My question is that since IJN bb's are terrible with there concealment anyway would trading CE for vigilance and EL be a better use of 4 skill points? TIA

In the Yamato thread I posted this in response to what somebody suggested as a good build, but is what I consider to be one of the worst build suggestions I have ever seen:

  • 1: Priority Target or Preventive Maintenance: Either choice works
  • 2: Expert Marksman: As above, Yamato needs all the help it can get here.
  • 2: Adrenaline Rush: Increases your rate of fire as your health gets lower.  Alternatively, High Alert or Jack of All Trades can enable use of DC and RP more often.
  • 3: Basics of Survivability: Good skill for a durability build. 
  • 3: Superintendent: Extra charge of each consumable (always use premium consumables)
  • 4: Fire Prevention: Critical anti-HE skill.  Slight reduction in chance of being set on fire and massive reduction of fires due to reducing fire locations for 4 to 3.  The way this is done is by making the superstructure a single fire location and it is your superstructure that is most often targeted and set on fire.  In practice this is usually a reduction from two fires to one fire, or sometimes from three fires to two fires.  Don't be fooled by the people who say this doesn't do anything.
  • 4: Concealment Expert: Not quite as valuable as it was before its nerf and the resurgence of CVs, still a useful skill to help you go dark and get a chance to heal back up.  If I were to drop this I'd be picking up High Alert and Jack of All Trades with the points.

 

Seriously guys, take a look at C_D's suggested build in that thread if you want a laugh.  Radio Location is part of it.

Edited by Helstrem

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IJN BBs don't have much in the way of a turtleback to protect their Citadels.

You can have Survival Build while still having CE.

I never said the turtleback can prevent citadels. IJN turtleback is the opposite of German's; greater at range than in-close. 

 

While you're correct about survival build and CE, it requires more captain skill points. Most of us don't have many 19pt captains. 14 point builds are better served by basics of survivability and superintendent and two 1 point skills, IMHO.

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7 hours ago, Aetius05 said:

I never said the turtleback can prevent citadels. IJN turtleback is the opposite of German's; greater at range than in-close.

What other purpose does a turtleback have? It’s sole purpose is to protect the citadel by deflecting incoming shells, turning them into regular penetrations. That being said, none of the ones on IJN BBs perform nearly as well as the German ones.

In regards to the OP, an argument can be made that IJN battleships (especially at high tiers once you get access to the concealment module) actually get the most benefit from CE, as their gunnery is tailored toward mid-to-long range engagements. I’m grinding through the Izumo at the moment, and with CE and the module I have 13.5 km surface detection. I am frequently engaging enemies from outside my concealment range, allowing me to go dark when needed simply by holding my fire. In fact, even when firing my guns as soon as they are loaded, there is still a period of almost 6 and a half seconds when I can disappear (throwing off my opponents targeting) when my gun bloom expires. Being able to disengage like this and either reposition or heal up is very handy.

The build I’m running on my high tier IJN BBs: PT, EM, SI, FP, CE, AR in that order, then JoAT and EL.

Edited by Nevermore135
Added details for clarity
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