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Col_Nasty

Blaming newer players for our problems ignores one fact

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Not a day goes by that we don't see a post about lower skill level of players moving up too fast is what ills us.  Most are new .  Yes that IS true but not the whole story at all.

I usually ignore stats because they can be manipulated and boosted and anyone with 10K games can start a new account and look GODLIKE ( I know a few )  All you have to do is start over and lose those 3 to 5 k games you sucked at because you were learning. So stats do not impress me.  

What Does get my attention is how some expert farmers play in ops.  We all know the tricks..let some other sucker get in close so he/she gets focused while you farm.  All that kind of stuff.

So for the first time in the year I have been here I decided to check people out.  So far 3 of the 5 players I saw this morning that were NOT helping the team at all but busy safely farming buildings and transports, Hiding from ANY Battles or ships that actually SHOOT BACK.  3 of them were players with 1000s of battles.  100% selfish play. Ignoring other players requests for assistance ( the last round a BB focused ONLY on factories and transports as we lost 3 ships to direct fire that the BB could have BLAPPED the ships that were doing it..  I did all I could to help and got plenty of kills but I was in a BB and it was just too slow loading to save people.  )  The player IGNORED everyone as if he /she was playing a totally different game.  After farming the ship just hid behind an island waiting for us to kill everything.

This was no NOOB with 50 matches , I cannot name and shame but this player has been her forever with over 10K matches  a total liability to the team. DELIBERATELY.

The worst part to me?  After doing NOTHING to help us actually fight and win,  thanx to my remaining teammates , A great DD player, a Great CL and CV we STILL five starred it.  

The Farming worthless player gets a full share of the bounty for doing nothing. He actually got players killed because of his inaction. players that were PARTICIPATING.

So next time you see horrible or selfish play , look to see who it is.  I did 5 times. 3 times they were PROS.  I will never assume again.

Now bring on the kiddies with their zzzzs

Col Out

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Well, players are entitled to play however they see fit. 

The rewards not always aligning with the objectives is a whole separate issue altogether.

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And, this illustrates that WoWs isn't seriously a "team game".....; but rather, a "cooperative team," first person shooter, in an arcade format.  The player you are discussing is playing the game as a FPS....  "All for one and one for all........and, MORE for ME !!!"  Oh yes, a good portion of WoWs is actually a FPS with others getting in the way.... 

And, add this type of behavior to a Random match and what do you get?   Stomps: because, this selfish player only does things that he/she will benefit from.....  And, add a skill disparity in the game itself, because of population shifts, the Stomps get a lot worse. 

Of course, this is a F2P and this type of behavior(s) is absolutely within the rules of the game....  Those whom do this kind of stuff are pretty smart actually:  why kill yourself when others will make it easy for you !!

Sorry @Col_Nasty, players like this are a necessary evil because we simply can't lose anyone else population wise.

 

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Farming for stats is just sad...really.  Couple of these types tried to make it in our tank clan, but they couldn't deal with: being told what to do, having to move into fire, and really would not accept instructions and God forbid they were actually asked to take a hit for the team....and were dropped.  Years later one was still was bad mouthing me in game and he just couldn't understand why no one appreciated his game or stats.  Trying to get a person to see how their selfishness hurts others....well it is pretty hard, since our nature is a self nature to begin with.

In ships it is getting worse and it is NOT the new players, been seeing a lot of DDs lately moving like 1/4 speed and letting CAs and BBs get ahead of them....crazy, but I understand partially why they do this, it is the Sky Cancer...it finds these lone DDs and kills or spots them to death outside or in cap... and higher tiers it is beginning to be normal to see 2 DDs or less.  I have been averaging one game a night for a week now with NO DDs in a high tier game.... and then it sucks for your team IF the other teams's DD IS doing his job and is not getting spotted...why they are spotting the heck out of your team and your getting drenched with shells and getting shots off every now and then and the other guys ships are not being spotted consistently.  Then everyone yells at the BBs on the other flank to move up...and I think they would like to but they have few targets spotted and are getting burned up or shot up, so they hang back waiting or they charge and die to the DD that is spotting them.  

No real way to change a stat farmer into a player, they are hard wired by ego and self interest.  ( and I am not railing on GOOD players that are playing to the strengths of their ships, you can tell, they retreat and pursue on a regular basis)

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When I play Narai I bring Atlanta and I go nuke the transports. This is for multiple reasons. Atlanta as a ship is exceptional at this because it encounters targets it can easily handle in the DD and Emerald over there while avoiding what it can't which is the Missouri. A main thing to note for those more experienced randoms players in ops like narai however, is they are most likely there purely to get as much out of it as they can. This is because we know a 5 star success is all but guaranteed, so we just do absolutely everything possible. How a group can lose more than 1 or 2 ships in narai Is beyond me though.

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40 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Well, players are entitled to play however they see fit. 

The rewards not always aligning with the objectives is a whole separate issue altogether.

Spoken like one of those Pros he was speaking of. Sad. This is a TEAM game. Yes you have an obligation to help the team and forgo self. If you want self self self, Play co-op

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I don't seem to grasp the rant over Narai which is a Bot/AI based scenario?

There is literary no skill involved playing against bots. In PVP I can completely understand.

OP even stated that even without this "NOOB" player they 5 starred so why the outrage?

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13 minutes ago, Archangel_0505 said:

Spoken like one of those Pros he was speaking of. Sad. This is a TEAM game. Yes you have an obligation to help the team and forgo self. If you want self self self, Play co-op

 

The OP spoke of non-team play being an issue in co-op from existing players. It should be nowhere in the game. Keyword, should. Yet Ace is right, any player can play how they want. No rules against it. No repercussions by playing as a solo warrior. I wish it were otherwise yet it isn't.

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Been playing for awhile myself. Typically try to do what's right for the team. Just my approach. Don't get discouraged any more about other team members play. Doesn't do me any good because I know sometimes I suck also and make bad choices. It's a game. I like naval warfare and play to have fun. Takes the edge off a crappy day at work.

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34 minutes ago, Archangel_0505 said:

Spoken like one of those Pros he was speaking of. Sad. This is a TEAM game. Yes you have an obligation to help the team and forgo self. If you want self self self, Play co-op

Team game, lol. Who decides who is helping the team and who isn't? Who decides what the strategy is that everyone should follow? What is team play? Is joining a lemming train team play or is refusing to join the lemming train team play? 

But to be honest, I think you have totally mischaracterized what Ace said. I also don't think you have any clue how Ace conducts himself.

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45 minutes ago, Archangel_0505 said:

Sad. This is a TEAM game.

WOWS is not a team game any more.. ITs a group game...

A team say a football team, have positions that have roles/assignments/duties and responsibilities...

WOWS ceased to be that way back in 2017...

Now, I am not going to complain about cruisers not helping when, all it takes is 6 AP shots they'll be in port (that is 6 shots not in a broadside position).

There for, if you have a group of ships that can sink all... Then that in a nutshell is the current state of WOWS.

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3 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

WOWS is not a team game any more.. ITs a group game...

A team say a football team, have positions that have roles/assignments/duties and responsibilities...

WOWS ceased to be that way back in 2017...

Now, I am not going to complain about cruisers not helping when, all it takes is 6 AP shots they'll be in port (that is 6 shots not in a broadside position).

There for, if you have a group of ships that can sink all... Then that in a nutshell is the current state of WOWS.

If that's your definition, it was never a team game. Players have always done dumb or selfish stuff, ignoring teammates when it's obviously in best interests to help them, etc. I've been playing this game since Open Beta and that was always a thing. Getting help from your teammates was the exception and not the rule.

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22 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Team game, lol. Who decides who is helping the team and who isn't? Who decides what the strategy is that everyone should follow? What is team play? Is joining a lemming train team play or is refusing to join the lemming train team play? 

But to be honest, I think you have totally mischaracterized what Ace said. I also don't think you have any clue how Ace conducts himself.

I honestly don't expect you to agree with me. So we will move on.

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7 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

I've been playing this game since Open Beta and that was always a thing. Getting help from your teammates was the exception and not the rule.

What I am saying is... Its gotten worse in 2017 to current... Unfortunately IMO with more OP ships being produced, its going to get much worse... Especially at high tiers...

Its starting to spill over to mid tiers as well.

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58 minutes ago, Archangel_0505 said:

Spoken like one of those Pros he was speaking of. Sad. This is a TEAM game. Yes you have an obligation to help the team and forgo self. If you want self self self, Play co-op

The only way this will get fixed is nerf the vets after say 5000 battles and give them 1/10 of the rewards they farm for and the only way they can make xp is to assist kill. There needs to be a purge of these players and the only way is to remove the rewards they seek.
There no point debating with them. 

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1 minute ago, Skidmark_01 said:

The only way this will get fixed is nerf the vets after say 5000 battles and give them 1/10 of the rewards they farm for and the only way they can make xp is to assist kill. There needs to be a purge of these players and the only way is to remove the rewards they seek.
There no point debating with them. 

Well said Sir.

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1 hour ago, Archangel_0505 said:

This is a TEAM game.

I don't think that you and I are playing the same video game.

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I blame the unskilled, not the new. 

Plenty of these 42% potatoes have been around for years. They refuse to improve; they refuse to acknowledge that improvement is even warranted. Many - the majority - when cornered, insist that they are actually profoundly talented at the game. 

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

I don't think that we are playing the same video game.

Yes he is Playing the same game. 
I'm a Cv player so i value team play above all else.
perhaps its time you review your life choices?
nerf them parasites too many of them dictating this game.
Not happy?  Tough... its been a team game since i started this.
i'm gonna give my support to these new players because its what the game needs.
People that actually want to play as a team.
 

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5 minutes ago, Skidmark_01 said:

The only way this will get fixed is nerf the vets after say 5000 battles and give them 1/10 of the rewards they farm for and the only way they can make xp is to assist kill. There needs to be a purge of these players and the only way is to remove the rewards they seek.
There no point debating with them. 

How many of the money spending whales can WoWs afford to lose?

As for, is it a team game; just look at the current missions for the RN CA release. Where are the team related missions? They didn't even use the get X amount of spotting damage, they are all about selfish play. Having to get X number of kills just promotes kill stealing or farming X amount of damage by fire damage just promotes HE spamming that the BBs players hate. 

The developers would seriously need to rework their missions for these release event to promote more team play than individual grind to get what they need then survive to the end to get their ship choice for the next mission.

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5 minutes ago, crazycarey said:

How many of the money spending whales can WoWs afford to lose?

As for, is it a team game; just look at the current missions for the RN CA release. Where are the team related missions? They didn't even use the get X amount of spotting damage, they are all about selfish play. Having to get X number of kills just promotes kill stealing or farming X amount of damage by fire damage just promotes HE spamming that the BBs players hate. 

The developers would seriously need to rework their missions for these release event to promote more team play than individual grind to get what they need then survive to the end to get their ship choice for the next mission.

They reworked the Cv's did they? 
nothing impossible and some of those whales are new players.
I say to the New players run a petition to WG about it. I'll sign it.
 

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24 minutes ago, Skidmark_01 said:

Yes he is Playing the same game. 
I'm a Cv player so i value team play above all else.
perhaps its time you review your life choices?
nerf them parasites too many of them dictating this game.
Not happy?  Tough... its been a team game since i started this.
People that actually want to play as a team.
 

:Smile_teethhappy:

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1 hour ago, Morpheous said:

Farming for stats is just sad...really.  Couple of these types tried to make it in our tank clan, but they couldn't deal with: being told what to do, having to move into fire, and really would not accept instructions and God forbid they were actually asked to take a hit for the team....and were dropped.  Years later one was still was bad mouthing me in game and he just couldn't understand why no one appreciated his game or stats.  Trying to get a person to see how their selfishness hurts others....well it is pretty hard, since our nature is a self nature to begin with.

In ships it is getting worse and it is NOT the new players, been seeing a lot of DDs lately moving like 1/4 speed and letting CAs and BBs get ahead of them....crazy, but I understand partially why they do this, it is the Sky Cancer...it finds these lone DDs and kills or spots them to death outside or in cap... and higher tiers it is beginning to be normal to see 2 DDs or less.  I have been averaging one game a night for a week now with NO DDs in a high tier game.... and then it sucks for your team IF the other teams's DD IS doing his job and is not getting spotted...why they are spotting the heck out of your team and your getting drenched with shells and getting shots off every now and then and the other guys ships are not being spotted consistently.  Then everyone yells at the BBs on the other flank to move up...and I think they would like to but they have few targets spotted and are getting burned up or shot up, so they hang back waiting or they charge and die to the DD that is spotting them.  

No real way to change a stat farmer into a player, they are hard wired by ego and self interest.  ( and I am not railing on GOOD players that are playing to the strengths of their ships, you can tell, they retreat and pursue on a regular basis)

   I see this, too in Co-op.  Heck, I even do it myself, sometimes.   But for totally different reasons.   (and it may have some bearing on why guys do it in Randoms, if they play both)

  We do it there, because of how WG has programmed the AI.   They key off the DD's.   First spotted = first focused.   My paltry 7-9000 hp lasts mere seconds when 2/3 of the bot team is hammering my lil lollibote.   If you are the only DD, it's often far, far worse- then the entire red team charges your location- whether you're spotted or not.   And this nonsense is worse in the high tiers. 

If I die in the first minute or so after contact, what good am I to anyone?    If instead, the toasters spot something else first,  you can often avoid much of that crap- and gain the freedom of movement to actually DD.  (instead of running for your life,  or popping smoke that blinds the whole team- and gives the reds total cover to move up without being shot, etc)    Gunboat DD's- like my beloved Frenchies- work a lot better when you can hammer the piss out of distracted enemies, or ambush stragglers than trying to take on a bunch of them at once- all of whom are actively trying to sink you.

I actually have to consciously rein in my naturally aggressive tendencies when playing DD- lest I bite off WAY more than I can chew- in a big hurry!

  To me, it sounds like you're seeing pve players, either trying their hand at pvp- or just returning there after picking up those habits playing a lot of pve for directives etc.  (or hiding from CV's)   

  Signed:  The eternal optimist.

  Or they could be selfish clods just looking after #1, like you suggested, lol.

 

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2 hours ago, Archangel_0505 said:

Spoken like one of those Pros he was speaking of. Sad. This is a TEAM game. Yes you have an obligation to help the team and forgo self. If you want self self self, Play co-op

 

1 hour ago, Skidmark_01 said:

The only way this will get fixed is nerf the vets after say 5000 battles and give them 1/10 of the rewards they farm for and the only way they can make xp is to assist kill. There needs to be a purge of these players and the only way is to remove the rewards they seek.
There no point debating with them. 

Rofl.   

 

If I had to make a bet between you 2  "Team players"  VS  @Ducky_shot and @Ace_04   on a team .  I can tell you right now whose "team" is going to win due to more actual  team work  and synergy happening.   Hint: It wont be your "Team".

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