Hindenburg build

[Ramsalot]

Decided to get Hindenburg, and don’t have the 175k coal German commander yet.  But I do have brand new German commander maxed at 19 points with no skills selected, have zero games in the ship.  Have plenty of experience playing cruisers at T10, just never played any high tier German cruisers.

Read number of threads on the subject, and watched couple of videos.  Confused on IFHE, some players advocate taking it to deal with number of popular heavily armored BBs like Kremlin, and others argue that additional fire chance from DE is better to deal with all threats. Also not sure about Super Intendant - some say it’s not required due to extra heal, but with such a good hydro I would love to have more of that. Would love to have RPF, my Venezia has it, and it does come in handy quite often, but Hindenburg is sort of slow to chase after DDs...  Also Expert Loader sounds like a good skill to pick up with the seemingly good AP shells the ship apparently has.  Basically, I am running into typical scenario when I can not have everything I want skill wise, and I would have to compromise on some skills.

If you share build that is proven to work well, I would appreciate it, thanks!

[Pura__Vida]

I did a full torpedo build on mine. 2.7k range torps but they go 125knts.

[Ramsalot]

3 minutes ago, Waxing_Gibbous said:

I did a full torpedo build on mine. 2.7k range torps but they go 125knts.

I see what you did there.  I can tell Hindenburg torps are just fine the way they are.

[_RC1138]

Hinde's funny to build for, I use (it's Franz von Jutland so he has improved JoAT and VI):

PM/PT, EM/JoAT, SI/DE/VI, CE

Rationale:

PM because I always take PM first (gotta keep those guns talking), and PT because with 1 point leftover from 3 Tier3 Skills, what else am I going to take?

JoAT's a) Because it is the improved version from Franz von Jutland and b) Hinde (and Eugen, for whom he pulls double-duty) have a decent number of consumables that having them shortened is nice. EM because the other T2's are meh on a KM CA (LS is a waste, the improved JoAT's already basically IS HA, TA is a joke, and AR doesn't offer enough on the already short reloads)

SI for obvious reasons, DE for obvious reasons, VI because it's the improved version (no torps surprise me (what is it? Like 5-6 km spotting distance for torps with Sonar running?)) and because there isn't much else to spend points on for this captain as...

T4, just CE, and just because more concealment is always nice. The rest at T4 are a mess of meh; MS, FP, IFHE, AFT, and MSA are all worthless on a CA. MAA maybe? But I don't find it necessary. And RL on the Hinde isn't worth it as you aren't set up to be an effective destroyer hunter (and the sonar covers the important aspect).

[neptunes_wrath]

IFHE is a GOOD thing...
THE NEW HINDY buffs make if formidable..
WATCH FLAMU and you will KNOW the HINDY IS GREAT AGAIN!!!

 

 

[neptunes_wrath]

45 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Hinde's funny to build for, I use (it's Franz von Jutland so he has improved JoAT and VI):

PM/PT, EM/JoAT, SI/DE/VI, CE

Rationale:

PM because I always take PM first (gotta keep those guns talking), and PT because with 1 point leftover from 3 Tier3 Skills, what else am I going to take?

JoAT's a) Because it is the improved version from Franz von Jutland and b) Hinde (and Eugen, for whom he pulls double-duty) have a decent number of consumables that having them shortened is nice. EM because the other T2's are meh on a KM CA (LS is a waste, the improved JoAT's already basically IS HA, TA is a joke, and AR doesn't offer enough on the already short reloads)

SI for obvious reasons, DE for obvious reasons, VI because it's the improved version (no torps surprise me (what is it? Like 5-6 km spotting distance for torps with Sonar running?)) and because there isn't much else to spend points on for this captain as...

T4, just CE, and just because more concealment is always nice. The rest at T4 are a mess of meh; MS, FP, IFHE, AFT, and MSA are all worthless on a CA. MAA maybe? But I don't find it necessary. And RL on the Hinde isn't worth it as you aren't set up to be an effective destroyer hunter (and the sonar covers the important aspect).

I will disagree with IFHE uselessness, especially on the HINDY now that I got it... MAN it ruins EVERYONE'S day... angled BBS?>??  LOLPENS ... the new patch buffs make it a very very formidable DPM monster once again...I missed playing it for a while when it got powercrept.... now its great again.,...

[Ramsalot]

30 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

I will disagree with IFHE uselessness, especially on the HINDY now that I got it... MAN it ruins EVERYONE'S day... angled BBS?>??  LOLPENS ... the new patch buffs make it a very very formidable DPM monster once again...I missed playing it for a while when it got powercrept.... now its great again.,...

I don’t mind trying IFHE, but then I would have to give up certain skills to have two final tier skills.

[eagle_lance]

1 hour ago, Ramsalot said:

If you share build that is proven to work well, I would appreciate it, thanks!

I'd go in order: pt, ar, de, ce, el, si, joat, pm, em. Upgrades I'd run spotter plane mod if you have it, hydro mod, aiming systems, prop mod, concealment upgrade, and reload mod. Ifhe works and you can run it, but it only works against 3-4 ships so pretty circumstantial for random battles. Hindy is pretty captain light so you can mold it to what fits you best. 

[KilljoyCutter]

Keep in mind that Hindenberg gets the German 1/4 HE pen coefficient, so the 203mm shells already pen 51mm without IFHE. 

Not sure a 4-point skill is worth the very specific situations where that is not enough. 

 

 

[HazardDrake]

1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Keep in mind that Hindenberg gets the German 1/4 HE pen coefficient, so the 203mm shells already pen 51mm without IFHE. 

Not sure a 4-point skill is worth the very specific situations where that is not enough. 

 

Exactly.

Your ship has engines and a rudder. Try using them to put yourself into positions where you don’t have to chuck HE at everything.

The AP is fantastic. Put it to good use.

[_RC1138]

43 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

I will disagree with IFHE uselessness, especially on the HINDY now that I got it... MAN it ruins EVERYONE'S day... angled BBS?>??  LOLPENS ... the new patch buffs make it a very very formidable DPM monster once again...I missed playing it for a while when it got powercrept.... now its great again.,...

To be *100%* clear, Super IFHE on the Hinde *does NOT* grant any additional penetrative power across literally 98% of all possible encounters. The only ships for which having IFHE on Hinde grants penetration that without IFHE the Hinde could not, is the deck of the Kreml and Soviet Union:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#By_armor_thickness

Quote

By armor thicknessEdit

Armor thickness	Occurrences (non-exhaustive)	HE shell diameter needed to penetrate				Beneficiaries (without IFHE) (non-exhaustive)	Beneficiaries (with IFHE) (non-exhaustive)
		Standard	IFHE	Super	Super IFHE
16 mm	Tier 3 battleship bow/stern Tier 6-7 battleship superstructure Most tier 6-7 cruiser bow/stern	99 mm	76 mm	67 mm	51 mm
19 mm	Tier 4-5 battleship bow/stern Tier 8-10 battleship superstructure Tier 8-10 destroyer plating	117 mm	88 mm	79 mm	59 mm	German 100mm guns and secondaries	Some destroyers (102 mm - 114 mm)
25 mm	Tier 6-7 battleship bow/stern Some tier 8-10 cruiser bow/stern	153 mm	118 mm	103 mm	79 mm	Heavy cruisers (203mm) Light cruisers (155mm)	Light cruisers (150mm or 152mm) Most destroyers (120 mm - 150 mm, 100 mm super)
27 mm	Some tier 8-10 cruiser bow/stern	165 mm	124 mm	111 mm	83 mm	Heavy cruisers (203mm) Donskoi and Molotov (180mm)	Most light cruisers (152 mm, 155 mm) Most destroyers (127 mm - 150 mm, 100 mm super)
30 mm	Some tier 8-10 cruiser plating	183 mm	142 mm	123 mm	95 mm	Heavy cruisers (203mm)	Most light cruisers (152 mm, 155 mm, 180 mm) Donskoi and Molotov (180mm) Some Japanese destroyers/secondaries (100 mm super)
32 mm	Tier 8-10 battleship bow/stern	195 mm	148 mm	131 mm	99 mm	Heavy cruisers (203mm)	Most light cruisers (152 mm, 155 mm, 180 mm) Donskoi and Molotov (180mm) Some Japanese destroyers/secondaries (100 mm super)
50 mm	Khabarovsk belt Moskva plating Großer Kurfürst deck	303 mm	232 mm	202 mm	155 mm	German 203mm (Hindenburg, Roon, Hipper, Yorck) Superheavy cruisers (305 mm)	Henri IV (240 mm)
60 mm	Kremlin deck Sovetsky Soyuz deck	353 mm	279 mm	244 mm	186 mm		German 203mm (Hindenburg, Roon, Hipper, Yorck) Superheavy cruisers (305 mm)

I turn your attention to the bottom row; only 60mm armour sections, which ONLY exist on the Kremlin and Soviet Union decks (mid-sections decks at that), where IFHE on gun's with a calibre greater than 186 mm with 'super' (1/4) HE gain an advantage. Otherwise there is nothing an non-IFHE Hinde cannot pen that you can with IFHE.

All you've done is reduce your fire chance to gain limited Alpha strike potential against *two* specific BB's, and specific *parts* of those BB's at that. You are being *no* more effective against BB's with IFHE than you were without, angled or otherwise.

[neptunes_wrath]

1 minute ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Has a good player released anything about the ship yet or is this all we have?

LOL  I agree with your point... but his knowledge of skills is better than his Personality and fame... at least

 

[neptunes_wrath]

1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

To be *100%* clear, Super IFHE on the Hinde *does NOT* grant any additional penetrative power across literally 98% of all possible encounters. The only ships for which having IFHE on Hinde grants penetration that without IFHE the Hinde could not, is the deck of the Kreml and Soviet Union:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#By_armor_thickness

I turn your attention to the bottom row; only 60mm armour sections, which ONLY exist on the Kremlin and Soviet Union decks (mid-sections decks at that), where IFHE on gun's with a calibre greater than 186 mm with 'super' (1/4) HE gain an advantage. Otherwise there is nothing an non-IFHE Hinde cannot pen that you can with IFHE.

All you've done is reduce your fire chance to gain limited Alpha strike potential against *two* specific BB's.

I guess I stand corrected...
Good points

 

[Kebobs22]

3 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

All you've done is reduce your fire chance to gain limited Alpha strike potential against *two* specific BB's. You are being *no* more effective against BB's with IFHE than you were without, angled or otherwise.

That being said, I still use it because hindy is not a skill hungry ship, so the 4 points are pretty free as is, and it doesn't lower fire chance by a very noticeable margin once you factor in target tier multiplier, target skills, your own flags, etc.

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

7 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Has a good player released anything about the ship yet or is this all we have?

Ouch!  Little early in the day to have the claws out, isn't it? 

[_RC1138]

3 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

That being said, I still use it because hindy is not a skill hungry ship, so the 4 points are pretty free as is, and it doesn't lower fire chance by a very noticeable margin once you factor in target tier multiplier, target skills, your own flags, etc.

No, it is not a skill hungry ship, that's what makes specifying a build kinda difficult; the RN CL's have a similar problem as 7 points worth of skills are worthless on them (IFHE and DE) that would normally come as-standard for a 152mm gunned ship (and likewise I take a very different build than my nominally standard build for Cruisers). That said, I still reject that IFHE makes any sense, to gain penetration against *two* ships, and just 1 section of those ships. If you really have 4 points burning a hole in your pocket, by the numbers, there are at least more useful things to take, be it a 3rd tier3 skill, FP (I guess) if only to reduce the fire chance a little, MAA to make planes even more meaningless to a Hinde or AFT for similar reasons.

[Kebobs22]

1 minute ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Ouch!  Little early in the day to have the claws out, isn't it? 

If I was a fancy fridge my Brita filter would be expired or missing.

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

8 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

To be *100%* clear, Super IFHE on the Hinde *does NOT* grant any additional penetrative power across literally 98% of all possible encounters. The only ships for which having IFHE on Hinde grants penetration that without IFHE the Hinde could not, is the deck of the Kreml and Soviet Union:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#By_armor_thickness

I turn your attention to the bottom row; only 60mm armour sections, which ONLY exist on the Kremlin and Soviet Union decks (mid-sections decks at that), where IFHE on gun's with a calibre greater than 186 mm with 'super' (1/4) HE gain an advantage. Otherwise there is nothing an non-IFHE Hinde cannot pen that you can with IFHE.

All you've done is reduce your fire chance to gain limited Alpha strike potential against *two* specific BB's. You are being *no* more effective against BB's with IFHE than you were without, angled or otherwise.

Yamato, Musashi, Izumo?

[Legio_X_]

I don’t see how you do not see Flamuu as a skilled player. He has a lot of knowledge in this game. 

[Kebobs22]

1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

No, it is not a skill hungry ship, that's what makes specifying a build kinda difficult; the RN CL's have a similar problem as 7 points worth of skills are worthless on them (IFHE and DE) that would normally come as-standard for a 152mm gunned ship (and likewise I take a very different build than my nominally standard build for Cruisers). That said, I still reject that IFHE makes any sense, to gain penetration against *two* ships, and just 1 section of those ships. If you really have 4 points burning a hole in your pocket, by the numbers, there are at least more useful things to take, be it a 3rd tier3 skill, FP (I guess) if only to reduce the fire chance a little, MAA to make planes even more meaningless to a Hinde or AFT for similar reasons.

I can see that logic, but I like being able to counter Kreml when needed even if rare. And with such a small hit, (maybe 1 fire from the reduction?) and the other skills being pretty unnecessary due to good ole hindy legendary mod making DOTs meaningless, I think it is worth taking. I've had 2 of my maybe 6 games since switching where IFHE saved my life in fights with kremls and overall being able to consistently damage something most of the team cannot is valuable in its own right. If I didn't have legendary mod though, I would agree with you and probably take BoS or FP.

[_RC1138]

5 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Yamato, Musashi, Izumo?

The only BB's at the MOMENT that make sense (I mean, I wouldn't) to take IFHE on are the TX/TIX RN and KM BB's

Quote

By HE diameterEdit

HE shell	Occurrences (non-exhaustive)	Maximum armor thickness penetrated		IFHE beneficial against (non-exhaustive)
		Without IFHE	With IFHE
152 mm 100 mm super	Most light cruisers Some Japanese destroyers/secondaries	24 mm	32 mm	Tier 8-10 battleship bow/stern
419-420 mm super	Conqueror, Friedrich der Große, Großer Kurfürst, Lion	104 mm	136 mm	Citadels: Cleveland, Edinburgh, Fiji, Helena, New Orleans, Worcester

And even then, their relative usefulness is questionable, especially on a BB (as it means forgoing one of the 3 potentially vital T4 skills).

Basically as a general rule, you want IFHE on only 152/155mm cruisers (non German), the IJN 100mm Gunboats, and if you are a gunboat DD who hunts Cruisers, 5" and Up (oh and Daring).

4 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

I don’t see how you do not see Flamuu as a skilled player. He has a lot of knowledge in this game. 

Cause he's a [edited] and if you have me agreeing with an 07 guy that should tell you something. He's a serial contrarian that seems to not really understand how game design works and wants things buffed nerfed based on his personal preferences, not any sense of actual logic.

 

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

1 minute ago, Legio_X_ said:

I don’t see how you do not see Flamuu as a skilled player. He has a lot of knowledge in this game. 

Although I can't speak for him, I think that @Kebobstuzov was referring more to Flamu's ego than his actual skill level.

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

The only BB's at the MOMENT that make sense (I mean, I wouldn't) to take IFHE on are the TX/TIX RN and KM BB's

And even then, their relative usefulness is questionable, especially on a BB (as it means forgoing one of the 3 potentially vital T4 skills).

Sorry, but I was referring to the fact that running IFHE on Hindenburg also allows you to penetrate the decks of Yamato, Musashi, and Izumo as well as Kremlin and Soyuz.  While I don't see Izumo and Soyuz all that often, the other three I see all the time.

[Legio_X_]

4 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

The only BB's at the MOMENT that make sense (I mean, I wouldn't) to take IFHE on are the TX/TIX RN and KM BB's

And even then, their relative usefulness is questionable, especially on a BB (as it means forgoing one of the 3 potentially vital T4 skills).

Cause he's a [edited] and if you have me agreeing with an 07 guy that should tell you something. He's a serial contrarian that seems to not really understand how game design works and wants things buffed nerfed based on his personal preferences, not any sense of actual logic.

 

You just have thin skin. I look past his streaming banter and focus on his ship reviews. Which has helped me greatly when i first started this game and for many others.

besides, what unicum in this game doesn’t have an over inflated ego?

[Kebobs22]

3 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Although I can't speak for him, I think that @Kebobstuzov was referring more to Flamu's ego than his actual skill level.

Both actually. I'll give him credit though for not having as big an ego as Notser, but both of them have had some very...... awful takes recently regardless.