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SidTheBlade

Shima vs Asashio

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The Shimakaze torps are easily detectable, allowing cruisers and other DDs ample time to avoid them. Indeed, BBs and even CVs are often able to avoid them.

The Asashio, by contrast, cannot hit cruisers and DDs with its torps, but it does have a much lower detectability on its deep water torps, against BBs and CVs.

Given that the Asashio has smoke AND torpedo reload booster consumables, and given that it is tier 8, and so has more favourable MM, is the Asashio a more powerful DD than the Shima?

 

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Nope

Play them both for 50-100 games each and you will see why I said no.

Edited by Chain_shot
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Asashio is better until you have to fight a cruiser. Then you just kiss your behind goodbye

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I have not played Shimakaze, I like my Asashio, and I am going to agree that Shimakaze is the more powerful destroyer tier-for-tier.

Yes, Shimakaze has torpedoes that cruisers and destroys CAN avoid, but they also CAN hit them. Asashio can never torpedo a cruiser or destroyer even if its life depends on it, and when you're playing a torpedo-focused Japanese destroyer, the type of ship most reliant on torpedoes in the game, then your life probably WILL depend on it at some point. Plus, you also have the point to be made that Shimakaze is more survivable and can, before taking upgrades into account, put an additional 12 rounds per minute downrange compared to Asashio.

The much better comparison would be Kagero with smoke instead of TRB versus Asashio, and I'm still going to say that Asashio loses out. Asashio is a one-trick pony. Don't get me wrong, it's a trick that she does very well! If you were to array all the tier 8s in the game out in front of me and say "Your job today is to kill battleships, and kill battleships ONLY, pick a ship." I would probably take the Asashio every time. But as with many things the game is not a stand-up one-on-one duel 99% of the time, you can't count on only engaging one type of ship. It frequently devolves INTO one-on-one duels because of map design and how teams play out, but you can never count on encountering anything except for one ship of the tier that you are bringing. And even if you could count on it being a destroyer, well now you're proper screwed with Asashio because guess what? Your primary weapon system can't hit him. Your one trick is now useless, and you've only got six (admittedly hard-hitting) 5" guns to work with. You're better off running home to live to fight another day. Kagero on the other hand can leverage ALL of its armament versus all enemies to one degree or another, it has better defenses versus aircraft, it can torpedo cruisers and destroyers, and you've still got those six 5" guns. I may not have it yet, but I feel confident in saying that Kagero is much better all-around ship.

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57 minutes ago, Chain_shot said:

Nope

Play them both for 50-100 games each and you will see why I said no.

I really like my Asashio.  It's a lulz meme boat but that's half the fun.  Some of the games that happen with that thing were worth every penny.  If not even for the in game gains but for the lols what just happened, I am saving that replay fun.

I am have had a lot of hilarious games in that ship.

 

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Asashio may lose a lot of its advantage over Shima if a certain new module goes live... Even base it's like 1.8km torp detection, but the 25% increase from Vigilance puts every torp almost on even footing with Shimakaze's 20km torps, at least detection wise.

Y'know. Assuming people do that.

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21 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Asashio may lose a lot of its advantage over Shima if a certain new module goes live... Even base it's like 1.8km torp detection, but the 25% increase from Vigilance puts every torp almost on even footing with Shimakaze's 20km torps, at least detection wise.

Y'know. Assuming people do that.

I can totally see it being used on large battleships and crusiers that are visible from space even WITH concealment mod (lookin' at you Soviets), it's definitely a more interesting trade-off than the current system from where I'm sitting.

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Nope... No torp DDs at upper tiers play like the mid to lower tier ones...

Therefor you have to relearn how to play with both of them. Both are two different torp ship doing the same upper tier stale torp DD game play..

You play you choose... You may choose option C... None of the above.

Edited by Navalpride33

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1 hour ago, SidTheBlade said:

The Asashio, by contrast, cannot hit cruisers and DDs with its torps

...which is huge. So no, Asashio isn't more powerful than Shima. It's just much more annoying to enemy BBs.

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Most Asashio players make the same mistake: sail all along the border to torp BB's in the flank. Get caught by CV, other DD or cruiser. Sink alone out there and complaining about no support.

You know, that you can use your low detection range for spotting where your team is?

If you use them right, you can saturate the area with Shima torps, so that at least one will hit. Or your enemy is forced to sail a straight line and others from your team can shot at him.

 

 

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4 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

The Shimakaze torps are easily detectable,

you wouldnt per chance be using the 20km torps?

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Just now, Dareios said:

you wouldnt per chance be using the 20km torps?

All shima torps are easily detected

 

As for the Op's original question  Asashio is stronger if used to it's strengths. And far weaker if denied it's strengths.

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Just now, Camo68 said:

All shima torps are easily detected

 

As for the Op's original question  Asashio is stronger if used to it's strengths. And far weaker if denied it's strengths.

big difference. may as well say all DDs have low concealment and all BBs have large guns.

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3 minutes ago, Dareios said:

big difference. may as well say all DDs have low concealment and all BBs have large guns.

1.7, 1.8 or 2.5.   

Have a look at all the other DDs at T10, only Kleber's torps (1.8) have that spotting range.

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3 minutes ago, Camo68 said:

1.7, 1.8 or 2.5.   

Have a look at all the other DDs at T10, only Kleber's torps (1.8) have that spotting range.

I suspect we are not going to see eye to eye. The difference between 1.4 (common detect range) and 1.7 is considerably less than that between 1.7 and 2.5.

My point is that 1.7 is 68% of 2.5, and that is a significant number. By saying its both the same (big, small, whatever) is the same as saying the Yamato has the same guns as a Wyoming (66%).

(and harugumo)

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2 hours ago, Landsraad said:

I can totally see it being used on large battleships and crusiers that are visible from space even WITH concealment mod (lookin' at you Soviets), it's definitely a more interesting trade-off than the current system from where I'm sitting.

Agreed. I was more making a dig as how obsessed with concealment the community can get at times no matter how bad off a ship's concealment is. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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I'm split on this.  I bought Asashio the day she was released...if the community [edited] and moan about an OP boat, BUY IT!

Asashio has over 2x the fire starting chance as Aki, but less than 1/2 the rate of fire.  Still w/ IFHE and Torp Acceleration my Asashio can still contest Caps as well as terrorize  BB's and CV's at 16 km w/ 16 torps at a throw.

It's a draw for me.

4 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

The Shimakaze torps are easily detectable, allowing cruisers and other DDs ample time to avoid them. Indeed, BBs and even CVs are often able to avoid them.

The Asashio, by contrast, cannot hit cruisers and DDs with its torps, but it does have a much lower detectability on its deep water torps, against BBs and CVs.

Given that the Asashio has smoke AND torpedo reload booster consumables, and given that it is tier 8, and so has more favourable MM, is the Asashio a more powerful DD than the Shima?

 

 

Edited by Sinton

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The Asashio's torped-armament limitations make it a very situational ship to play, and for this reason I stayed away from it for a LONG time. But this Black Friday, curiosity and a good price got the better of me and I bought the Black version. 

While I have absolutely no regrets, I must confess that she gets taken out only when I'm good and ready to play within her limitations.

The other boat she should possibly be compared to is the other premium Japanese destroyer that has both smoke and TRB: Yudachi.

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4 minutes ago, Sinton said:

I'm split on this.  I bought Asashio the day she was released...if the community [edited] and moan about an OP boat, BUY IT!

Asashio has over 2x the fire starting chance as Aki, but less than 1/2 the rate of fire.  Still w/ IFHE and Torp Acceleration my Asashio can still contest Caps as well as terrorize  BB's and CV's at 16 km w/ 16 torps at a throw.

It's a draw for me.

 

The IJN torp boats have my favorite guns of all the DDs, honestly. Those things hit for 50 less with HE than AP, so the DPM isn't as bad as you'd expect. It's part of why I can't wait to get my hands on that auto-loading Shimakaze coming out. Imagining 6 of those guns firing every 4 second is hilarious to me. 2,150 damage and 9% fire chance per shell is pretty great for 127mm guns.

Hayate will be so freaking awesome to fire, I just know it. :cap_rambo:

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Asashio relies on large numbers of BBs and the odd CV to pull large numbers. All this is reliant on RNG and MM. 

At least with Shima you know you can hit whichever target you want.

Just because you have to get a favourable lineup to really do some damage with Asashio makes Shima the better choice in my books.

Edited by warheart1992

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5 hours ago, PotatoMD said:

Asashio is better until you have to fight a cruiser. Then you just kiss your behind goodbye

Yep lol faced one in my CA in 1 vs 1 Ranked and got “torpedoed” several times and the Asashio player was furious that his torpedoes where not damaging me... :Smile_veryhappy:

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6 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

Nope

Play them both for 50-100 games each and you will see why I said no.

And the many players using Shimakaze all the time says a lot about how good the DD is. 

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I don't have the Shima but recently got the Asashio.  I like it, but play just PvE so game play is different. Hitting bow on bot BBs is hard to do at range. A flank shot is best but hard to do in the CoOp rush. But one nice thing is you can't torp teammate cruisers and DDs. I got three torp hits on a bot Bismarck 17km away never saw it but on the mini map.

If I can't torp I usually try to spot and maybe smoke for the team if I can continue to spot for them. And can gun down any bot dd trying to sneak by.

I hear WG is going to nerf IJN torp detection range. That is what hurts the Yuduchi the 1.8 torp detection range I guess WG wants IJN DDs to all have bad detection to make the Yuduchi looks better. 

Both Asashio and Yuduchi have terrible AA.

A problem is the IJN. DDs tend to be slow so you can get run down by CLs. Nice to have two rear turrets anyway. 

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Just wait until everyone and their mother can slot that module that forces Asashio's DWTs to be detected at 1.8km (or 2.8km with Vigilance).

When Asashio is completely worthless in every match because her torpedoes are sighted practically as soon as they leave the tube, Shimakaze's longer base spotting range torpedoes will look much better.

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