Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Shannon_Lindsey

(???????) is ruining the game

62 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

963
[IND8]
[IND8]
Members
1,054 posts
10,813 battles

I will admit the game has not been as fun to play as it once was. I began noticing this in the final weeks of the New year's event. Today it really hit home for me. After taking time for some personal reflection I think I finally understand what is really ruining the game.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is ruining the game. Wargaming, I really don't think I can blame you for this.

I think I have suspected this for some time. It really has been all of the anti-CV whining. It might have been all the complaints about people hiding in the back. It may have been people making up stats to justify their point of view when I've been checking the same stats and not been finding the same thing at all. Actually, it was the other guy playing destroyer playing like an idiot in a game earlier today really made me realize what's actually going on. There are a lot of players playing this game now that are not as smart as they think they are. This isn't everyone, but it's just enough to get some really nasty steamrolls going. This is further complicated by the amount of importance the destroyer has in who wins or loses a battle in domination mode. Destroyers are not forgiving. Battleships are forgiving. Aircraft carriers and radar make the margin for error in playing destroyers much less. Trust me in the last 48 hours I had a couple of games where I made some pretty big mistakes. I was angry at myself. Then I saw a friendly destroyer come all the way across the map to try and take the same cap I was only to get himself blapped right away when he extended too far forward right out of my smoke and right into the crosshairs of two aircraft carriers rocket squadrons as well as four cruisers. Sadly he was driving in Nicholas, and if he stopped in my smoke, he would have not only not been seen, but would have massacred the planes. Once he died, half of my team decided to fall back to the A line. Because they did that, the ships that didn't fall back got focused down quickly, and I had nobody to turn to AA help for. That's right, literally half of my team was acting like idiots. I will add that only one of them was playing a kiter, and even they were far further back then they had to be. 

So as I read whine thread after whine thread, I see people complaining about things that aren't that hard to deal with if you use your head. I get the distinct feeling that these people either all should change their name to Karen, or they somehow think the game company can actually take player-versus-player and make it into an easy mode. I know I'm not that great a player, but I also realize the reason I'm not that great is because once every few games I make a really [edited] mistake. For example, I was in a battle with a clanmate earlier today and I over ran my smoke thinking my teammate would be able to blap the enemy DD because I had better spotting range. However I forgot there was a carrier in the game. Oops my bad. However I also get the distinct feeling a lot of people that are not doing so well in DDs don't realize they're getting killed not because of radar or a CV, but because they really don't know the right play to make. They do something as dumb as I did, but blame the company for making the CV that spotted them. 

Basically what I'm trying to say is can we please get some more player versus environment content? Everybody has a bad day sometimes, and more interesting easy mode could be a good thing.

 

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey
  • Cool 9
  • Funny 2
  • Boring 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,781
[SALVO]
Members
25,498 posts
27,483 battles
22 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

The Dunning-Kruger effect is ruining the game.

For crying out loud, this is probably true for EVERYTHING in life.  No need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,315
[MUDDX]
Banned
8,144 posts
23,201 battles
25 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

Dunning-Kruger

I haven't seen either of them in the game. What clan are they in?

26 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

There are a lot of players playing this game now that are not as smart as they think they are.

Perhaps that is so but what I see is that there has always been players who are indeed as idiotic as their play consistently reveals. 

I seriously doubt more PvE content will remedy that.

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,687
[PVE]
Members
4,675 posts
20,617 battles
23 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I will admit the game has not been as fun to play as it once was. I began noticing this in the final weeks of the New year's event. Today it really hit home for me. After taking time for some personal reflection I think I finally understand what is really ruining the game.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is ruining the game. Wargaming, I really don't think I can blame you for this.

I think I have suspected this for some time. It really has been all of the anti-CV whining. It might have been all the complaints about people hiding in the back. It may have been people making up stats to justify their point of view when I've been checking the same stats and not been finding the same thing at all. Actually, it was the other guy playing destroyer playing like an idiot in a game earlier today really made me realize what's actually going on. There are a lot of players playing this game now that are not as smart as they think they are. This isn't everyone, but it's just enough to get some really nasty steamrolls going. This is further complicated by the amount of importance the destroyer has in who wins or loses a battle in domination mode. Destroyers are not forgiving. Battleships are forgiving. Aircraft carriers and radar make the margin for error in playing destroyers much less. Trust me in the last 48 hours I had a couple of games where I made some pretty big mistakes. I was angry at myself. Then I saw a friendly destroyer come all the way across the map to try and take the same cap I was only to get himself blapped right away when he extended too far forward right out of my smoke and right into the crosshairs of two aircraft carriers rocket squadrons as well as four cruisers. Sadly he was driving in Nicholas, and if he stopped in my smoke, he would have not only not been seen, but would have massacred the planes. Once he died, half of my team decided to fall back to the A line. Because they did that, the ships that didn't fall back got focused down quickly, and I had nobody to turn to AA help for. That's right, literally half of my team was acting like idiots. I will add that only one of them was playing a kiter, and even they were far further back then they had to be. 

So as I read whine thread after whine thread, I see people complaining about things that aren't that hard to deal with if you use your head. I get the distinct feeling that these people either all should change their name to Karen, or they somehow think the game company can actually take player-versus-player and make it into an easy mode. I know I'm not that great a player, but I also realize the reason I'm not that great is because once every few games I make a really [edited] mistake. For example, I was in a battle with a clanmate earlier today and I over ran my smoke thinking my teammate would be able to blap the enemy DD because I had better spotting range. However I forgot there was a carrier in the game. Oops my bad. However I also get the distinct feeling a lot of people that are not doing so well in DDs don't realize they're getting killed not because of radar or a CV, but because they really don't know the right play to make. They do something as dumb as I did, but blame the company for making the CV that spotted them. 

Basically what I'm trying to say is can we please get some more player versus environment content? Everybody has a bad day sometimes, and more interesting easy mode could be a good thing.

I really don't get this "so it's you inabilities" thread?  Look I was a DD main.  I get the game and the tactics....  And yes, make mistakes.........but, DD play is long gone in a match with a Carrier and 2 or 3 radar ships.  There is no value in being there....  IF, you survive till the end, you can't escape the Carriers......period.

So, here's my advice:   play COOP.  I gave up Randoms and mostly play Scenarios and COOP.  It's not because I'm dumb or lack skill.....  It's because it isn't "value added" anymore with the current meta or the proliferation of radar and Carriers....  Why spend 10 minutes evading contact when I can sometimes play two entire matches in COOP and have fun and make the same "value?" 

  • Cool 5
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,313
Members
2,646 posts
4,301 battles

According to the forums,  everything is killing the game.  Actually if I have read it right,  the game should have been dead a long time ago because of X,  with X being darn near everything added or changed in the past five years.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,122
[TDRB]
Members
5,153 posts
13,741 battles
Quote

Basically what I'm trying to say is can we please get some more player versus environment content?

I've made several rants before the Holidays about WG placing scenarios on the back burner. We do need all the ops updated before any other work is done on subs or events.

I do play a lot of ops & coops. The only reason you don't see much whining in coops is because once the match starts you don't have time to type or you'll not get a shot, much less sink anything.

Quote

It really has been all of the anti-CV whining.

WG deserves about 99% of the blame for this. Dumping the rework in the raw state it was in on the live server was foolish and caused much of the stress and anger we see today. 1% of the players are going to be pissed off regardless of what WG does.

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
158
[RBMKI]
Members
371 posts
6,235 battles

The only way to fix this is to have teams that never change. Your group gets matched up against some other team, and hopefully more of your members show up in their best ships as often as they can. Your team learns various strategies that can be implemented over and over again. The team progresses as a cohesive unit. You snooze though, you lose. 

That's how a VERY successful battle game (F2P) achieved it, and those players have been known to spend up to $10k-$60k per account.  Their battles had formats of 10vs10 and 100vs100 over half an hour or even 2 and 5 hour formats. Yes, they spent retirement or new car money over 10 years just to beat other players up in a pixel game. Winning fell squarely upon the shoulders of each team member and what they brought to the table, plus how dedicated they were to their team. Their investment in either time or money was never taken away or rebalanced, but better new equipment etc. was introduced every so often requiring you to keep playing and upgrading in order to stay competitive.

Yes, it can be done.

Edited by MudRaker227
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
796
[LOU1]
Members
4,207 posts
12,372 battles
8 minutes ago, MudRaker227 said:

The only way to fix this is to have teams that never change. Your group gets matched up against some other team, and hopefully more of your members show up in their best ships as often as they can. Your team learns various strategies that can be implemented over and over again. The team progresses as a cohesive unit. You snooze though, you lose. 

That's how a VERY successful battle game (F2P) achieved it, and those players have been known to spend up to $10k-$60k per account.  Their battles had formats of 10vs10 and 100vs100 over half an hour or even 2 and 5 hour formats. Yes, they spent retirement or new car money over 10 years just to beat other players up in a pixel game. Winning fell squarely upon the shoulders of what each team member brought to the table, and how dedicated they were to their team. Their investment in either time or money was never taken away or rebalanced, but better new equipment etc. was introduced every so often requiring you to keep playing and upgrading in order to stay competitive.

Yes, it can be done.

Curious if that game is still around (seriously)?

(FWIW, it doesn't sound very interesting/fun but more on the obsessive/compulsive side.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
158
[RBMKI]
Members
371 posts
6,235 battles

Oh yes, it's still around..... :Smile_trollface:

(a bit stale though)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
174 posts
20,227 battles

IMO....it's the MM....supposedly there are no metrics used in creating teams...bull.
One team is stacked most the time with great players,the other,junk players....look at the battle results at the end of the match for proof.
This is about the point spread...NOT wins & losses...close games are MUCH more fun which is what most of us look forward too :Smile_glasses:

If the MM used player stats in some way to balance the teams abit closer this would make for closer matches more often.
But that would require work....and time WG don't want to spend.
Personal rating score seems the most appropriate to use in selecting a team,but what do I know :Smile_facepalm:
K/D ratio or damage per battle can be gamed so those wouldn't be as reliable.......

Kudos to WG for the recent tier spread fix though,so there might be a tiny light at the end of the tunnel yet.

Edited by Unacceptable_1
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,389
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
37,334 battles
2 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I will admit the game has not been as fun to play as it once was. I began noticing this in the final weeks of the New year's event. Today it really hit home for me. After taking time for some personal reflection I think I finally understand what is really ruining the game.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is ruining the game. Wargaming, I really don't think I can blame you for this.

Sorry. it's all on WG. The idiotic ReBork chased away numerous good players. Thanks to the equally idiotic restricted T4 MM, T5, which used to be a blast, now sucks. So players hurry through that only to find T6 is even worse. Finally they get to T8-10 without having played enough games. Wargaming was so bent on selling high tier premiums they wrecked the low tiers. Then they brought in all those players from Asia and sorry, but as any veteran of that server will tell you, play is much worse there. So yes, much of the blame for horribad gameplay rests on WG's shoulders. Lots of decisions that were very bad for the game.
 

2 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

So as I read whine thread after whine thread, I see people complaining about things that aren't that hard to deal with if you use your head.

 

That isn't the issue. I wish people would stop imagining it is. Post after post explains it: for the majority of players, CVs make the game suck whether you can deal with them or not.

This post explains why CVs suck so hard....
 
  • Cool 4
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,535
[POP]
Members
2,928 posts
23,719 battles
2 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

I haven't seen either of them in the game. What clan are they in?

Classic one liner my sides hurt from laughing plus 1 Sir

P.S.  There not in POPCORN as far as I know

Edited by tm63au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
963
[IND8]
[IND8]
Members
1,054 posts
10,813 battles

I would say I am facepalming, but the responses were pretty much expected, although I will admit some of the responses came from different people than expected. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
224 posts
6,093 battles

I am the living proof that Dunning-Kruger is wrong. I know I'm a terrible player and I have the stats to prove it.

That being said, I have a blast playing this game.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6
[WOLF8]
Members
39 posts
1 hour ago, Unacceptable_1 said:

IMO....it's the MM....supposedly there are no metrics used in creating teams...bull.
One team is stacked most the time with great players,the other,junk players....look at the battle results at the end of the match for proof.
This is about the point spread...NOT wins & losses...close games are MUCH more fun which is what most of us look forward too :Smile_glasses:
 

I agree. It's the nature of the random MM.

Take the teams of 12 vs 12:

Now chose whatever rule to balance those 24 ships in 2 teams.

Now you have your balanced 2 teams.

But as wows MM is random, what is the chance of you get the same team's of the rule above? 1 in 12? I don't know but it's low. So most of the time you will get or slightly unbalanced matches and or some very ugly streaks for your teams or the reds.

Perfect balance is utopia but just some tweak can change that chance of 1 in 12 to a more palatable one like 5 in 12.

It's not perfection but a step in the right direction is what we want.

Edited by NerfedShip
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,551
[O7]
Members
1,494 posts
11,225 battles
1 hour ago, Unacceptable_1 said:

IMO....it's the MM....supposedly there are no metrics used in creating teams...bull.
One team is stacked most the time with great players,the other,junk players....look at the battle results at the end of the match for proof.
This is about the point spread...NOT wins & losses...close games are MUCH more fun which is what most of us look forward too :Smile_glasses:

If the MM used player stats in some way to balance the teams abit closer this would make for closer matches more often.
But that would require work....and time WG don't want to spend.
Personal rating score seems the most appropriate to use in selecting a team,but what do I know :Smile_facepalm:
K/D ratio or damage per battle can be gamed so those wouldn't be as reliable.......

Kudos to WG for the recent tier spread fix though,so there might be a tiny light at the end of the tunnel yet.

my clan pays $500 a month to get premium matchmaking which forces the matchmaker to give my team all the 60%+ win rate players and the enemy team all the sub 50% players.

its very good value for money and i would highly recommend purchasing this for your clan.

why struggle and not have fun playing the game when you can just pay small change and enjoy winning

  • Funny 1
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,551
[O7]
Members
1,494 posts
11,225 battles

simply put 90% of the player base do not know how to play or win games, this sounds means im sure but truth is evident in steam rolls.

not sure if the problem lies with the game devs and lack of tutorials or just raw stubbornness of the players who refuse to learn and grow in skill and would rather just blame better players for having hacks

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,406
[IRNBN]
Members
3,696 posts
10,750 battles
6 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

I really don't get this "so it's you inabilities" thread?  Look I was a DD main.  I get the game and the tactics....  And yes, make mistakes.........but, DD play is long gone in a match with a Carrier and 2 or 3 radar ships.  There is no value in being there....  IF, you survive till the end, you can't escape the Carriers......period.

So, here's my advice:   play COOP.  I gave up Randoms and mostly play Scenarios and COOP.  It's not because I'm dumb or lack skill.....  It's because it isn't "value added" anymore with the current meta or the proliferation of radar and Carriers....  Why spend 10 minutes evading contact when I can sometimes play two entire matches in COOP and have fun and make the same "value?" 

     I can totally relate to that. I don't even play DD's much, but I decided early on that Co-op at all tiers was my fun zone. Maybe that's just because I've always been more at home on a basketball court than a chess board. Run-and-gun holds much more allure for me than hide-and-hide-some-more. That's just my style, YMMV.

     The best part is, while CVs might make the turtle game miserable for a lot of people in PvP, in PvE they are part of a fast-food diet. All the planes you kill are the sprinkles on the big flat XP sundae for dessert. :Smile_teethhappy:

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
26 posts
1,749 battles
3 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

not sure if the problem lies with the game devs and lack of tutorials or just raw stubbornness of the players who refuse to learn and grow in skill and would rather just blame better players for having hacks 

It's both. The vast majority of the playerbase is horrible, but at the same time the game doesn't punish them for it, so they feel like they do nothing wrong with their 43% winrate, and still reach high tiers like it's nothing, while having learned nothing.

There is exactly one thing where world of tanks is vastly superior: at high tier you most likely will lose credits, and a lot if you're braindead, forcing you to go midtier earning credits, and maybe learning the game. In wows every mong can keep spamming tier ten for free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
164
[PUDEL]
Members
337 posts
1,596 battles
7 hours ago, GoldDust2015 said:

I am the living proof that Dunning-Kruger is wrong. I know I'm a terrible player and I have the stats to prove it.

That being said, I have a blast playing this game.

I'm horrible, too. Someone has to hold down our end of the distribution curve. :Smile_teethhappy:

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
963
[IND8]
[IND8]
Members
1,054 posts
10,813 battles
43 minutes ago, Ralph_Vargr said:

I'm horrible, too. Someone has to hold down our end of the distribution curve. :Smile_teethhappy:

Yeah, the people that know they are bad usually have good senses of humor. You guys make the game more fun, regardless which team you are on, and I will gladly division with you anytime.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
153
[AK-49]
Members
397 posts
8,141 battles
14 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is can we please get some more player versus environment content? Everybody has a bad day sometimes, and more interesting easy mode could be a good thing.

 

I find staying away from the forums for a while helps too (also ignoring the chat sometimes).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,571
[WOLF2]
Members
4,985 posts
20,603 battles
14 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I will admit the game has not been as fun to play as it once was. I began noticing this in the final weeks of the New year's event. Today it really hit home for me. After taking time for some personal reflection I think I finally understand what is really ruining the game.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is ruining the game. Wargaming, I really don't think I can blame you for this.

I think I have suspected this for some time. It really has been all of the anti-CV whining. It might have been all the complaints about people hiding in the back. It may have been people making up stats to justify their point of view when I've been checking the same stats and not been finding the same thing at all. Actually, it was the other guy playing destroyer playing like an idiot in a game earlier today really made me realize what's actually going on. There are a lot of players playing this game now that are not as smart as they think they are. This isn't everyone, but it's just enough to get some really nasty steamrolls going. This is further complicated by the amount of importance the destroyer has in who wins or loses a battle in domination mode. Destroyers are not forgiving. Battleships are forgiving. Aircraft carriers and radar make the margin for error in playing destroyers much less. Trust me in the last 48 hours I had a couple of games where I made some pretty big mistakes. I was angry at myself. Then I saw a friendly destroyer come all the way across the map to try and take the same cap I was only to get himself blapped right away when he extended too far forward right out of my smoke and right into the crosshairs of two aircraft carriers rocket squadrons as well as four cruisers. Sadly he was driving in Nicholas, and if he stopped in my smoke, he would have not only not been seen, but would have massacred the planes. Once he died, half of my team decided to fall back to the A line. Because they did that, the ships that didn't fall back got focused down quickly, and I had nobody to turn to AA help for. That's right, literally half of my team was acting like idiots. I will add that only one of them was playing a kiter, and even they were far further back then they had to be. 

So as I read whine thread after whine thread, I see people complaining about things that aren't that hard to deal with if you use your head. I get the distinct feeling that these people either all should change their name to Karen, or they somehow think the game company can actually take player-versus-player and make it into an easy mode. I know I'm not that great a player, but I also realize the reason I'm not that great is because once every few games I make a really [edited] mistake. For example, I was in a battle with a clanmate earlier today and I over ran my smoke thinking my teammate would be able to blap the enemy DD because I had better spotting range. However I forgot there was a carrier in the game. Oops my bad. However I also get the distinct feeling a lot of people that are not doing so well in DDs don't realize they're getting killed not because of radar or a CV, but because they really don't know the right play to make. They do something as dumb as I did, but blame the company for making the CV that spotted them. 

Basically what I'm trying to say is can we please get some more player versus environment content? Everybody has a bad day sometimes, and more interesting easy mode could be a good thing.

 

So, what I'm getting from this and Dunning-Kruger is that Wows is full of old conservatives that need a diversion and shouldn't be allowed to vote, or even speak?

As wrong as this sounds, I can't help but agree :)

 

  • Confused 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×