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PurpleAki_NA

Help! How Does Overpen Machanic Work?

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  • AP shells have a fuse. This fuse requires a specific threshold of armor to arm.
  • The fuse, when armed, has a certain burn time in milliseconds before the shell bursts and does damage.

- If an AP shell hits a piece of armor that's thinner than its fuse threshold, the fuse will not arm and the shell will continue on to the next armor plate as an inert kinetic piece. If every piece of armor it encounters is thinner than its arming threshold, it exists out the other side without the fuse arming, and the shell does 10% overpen damage.

- If the shell hits a piece of armor that's thick enough to arm the fuse, but the shell goes through the ship and out the other side in less time than the fuse takes to trigger the shell, it will do 10% overpen damage.

Those are the rules for overpen. Without actually having watched the replay, one of those two has to have happened. Depending on shell size (larger shells have a higher fuse arming threshold and a longer fuse time) and range / angle (at close range a large caliber battleship could overpen a broadside CL citadel). Do remember that shells lose velocity over range, so the closer you are the higher the chances of overpen, the further you are the less the chance of overpen.

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Ships are filled with nothing in WoWS so don't expect all of that machinery that 11" shell might be hitting in reality to change anything.

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Overpens is a mechanic in this game that you have to just shake your head at... fired some AP rounds at a MUSHI from my base gun Lion (about 15k range, was what I had loaded at the time)... and TWO overpens...I was like REALLY?  Did I go through the radio mast?  They looked like solid superstructure base hits....but ummm no...right through the ship.  I don't mind overpenning some CAs and DDs, but one of the best armored BBs ever? That is when I cry a river.....

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put simply, armor piercing needs to pierce some armor, too thin and you have an overpen, meaning reduced damage. now, what to do about it? if you are a good shot just adjust your lead and elevation so that you are hitting a more heavily armored point, that should let your AP arm. if you aren't that good a shot you are likely better with HE/SAP if available on your ship, damage saturation is a problem then as are shell shatters but you'll likely be doing better numbers than your overpens do. note, this isn't absolute. for example, BBs all have longer reload times than other ship types so switching to HE just may not be viable. in addition, against DDs there isn't that much point anyway, even your overpens may be doing almost as much as your HE would (not to mention if you are that close to a DD or CL you should probably be devoting half your efforts to avoiding their probable torps). also, know both your ship and their ship, for example Italians firing SAP can consistently farm citadels on most CVs, but their AP overpens.

there's allot more to using the right shell types-angling, damage saturation, the desire for DoT, when their last DCP was used, do they have a heal left, etc.-that all plays in to effective shooting. I suggest watching "How to Play X" videos on youtube, they really explain it well. at least watch the one on your ship if not the whole line but the more you watch the better you will likely be. keep in mind playstyles however. example, NoZoupForYou likes t maneuver more to avoid attacks in his ships, others like to use cover or smoke allot more, see if you can find one who is more like your playstyle. but you may also want to adjust yours, these guys are GOOD and that's because what they do WORKS. but even they lose.

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All you need to know is: 

If its IJN, it will overpen or bounce off 90% of the time. 

If its Soviet, it will hardly overpen ever given their guns are perfectly tuned to have just enough pen to detonate inside every piece of armor it punches through. 

All other nations follow the rules others have posted above. 

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1 hour ago, Leslie_Reigart said:

there's allot more to using the right shell types-angling, damage saturation, the desire for DoT, when their last DCP was used, do they have a heal left, etc.-that all plays in to effective shooting. I suggest watching "How to Play X" videos on youtube, they really explain it well. at least watch the one on your ship if not the whole line but the more you watch the better you will likely be. keep in mind playstyles however. example, NoZoupForYou likes t maneuver more to avoid attacks in his ships, others like to use cover or smoke allot more, see if you can find one who is more like your playstyle. but you may also want to adjust yours, these guys are GOOD and that's because what they do WORKS. but even they lose.

I appreciate the advice, I do watch all these CC's already and I have a good grip of the basic mechanics of the game.

Go watch the reply file I uploaded and give me some feedback on my shots on the Edin. Then explain to me why it overpened. Thanks.

 

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1 hour ago, PurpleAki said:

I appreciate the advice, I do watch all these CC's already and I have a good grip of the basic mechanics of the game.

Go watch the reply file I uploaded and give me some feedback on my shots on the Edin. Then explain to me why it overpened. Thanks.

 

@Lertis spot on. There are a couple of additional details he didn’t cover that I’ve noticed, namely where to shoot and armor thickness vs caliber of gun. Just aiming at a broadside isn’t enough. You have to aim at the waterline where the armor is thickest to have a good chance of getting citadels. However there are exceptions to this and it namely comes down to caliber of gun vs armor thickness. Namely the bigger the gun, the more armor you need to hit the machine spaces required for a citadel hit. 
 

6-11in guns can and will penetrate and detonate within the machine spaces against broadsiding cruisers. There is a small chance to cause a citadel hit against BB broadsides, but 6in guns won’t be able to detonate inside the citadel and 8in guns have to have RNG on its side otherwise it will just be an AP penetration. I’m not too sure about 11in guns so I am unclear if they can citadel a BB.

14-18in guns typically found on BBs can will be able to citadel a broadsiding cruiser from medium to short ranges reliably provided that the shell is armed against the thickest part of the broadside as well as can possibly citadel a broadsiding BB depending on both the caliber of the shells and armor thickness of where they struck. On light cruisers, the bigger the gun, the more likely the shells could over penetrate depending on where the shell hits. This is especially true for the Smolensk for it has armor that is thinner than the Omaha. So even if you have the broadside of a cruiser to shoot at, you still can miss the citadel completely because of a lack of armor to arm the shells even though the shot has connected with the broadside of a ship.

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6 minutes ago, LiaoXanLan said:

There are a couple of additional details he didn’t cover that I’ve noticed

Which fall outside the scope of his original question, which is why I didn't go into them in-depth :) I wanted to keep my answer short and to the point, easily digested and focused on the actual question without bogging it down in additional information.

Thank you for adding to it though!

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59 minutes ago, Lert said:

Which fall outside the scope of his original question, which is why I didn't go into them in-depth :) I wanted to keep my answer short and to the point, easily digested and focused on the actual question without bogging it down in additional information.

Thank you for adding to it though!

No problem. Figure it might help him in the future.

 

7 hours ago, PurpleAki said:

Could someone take a look at this replay and tell me why I overpened the Edin? How I didn't either pen him or cit him?

How does the overpen mechanic work?

20200116_122810_PGSB597-Black-Scharnhorst_19_OC_prey.wowsreplay

I took a look at the replay and I see you’re aiming much too high that your shells are exiting the ship before they can detonate. You need to aim where the water meets the bottom of the ship which is the waterline. That’s where you get those juicy citadel hits and can potentially devastating strike someone.

Edited by LiaoXanLan

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4 hours ago, LiaoXanLan said:

No problem. Figure it might help him in the future.

 

I took a look at the replay and I see you’re aiming much too high that your shells are exiting the ship before they can detonate. You need to aim where the water meets the bottom of the ship which is the waterline. That’s where you get those juicy citadel hits and can potentially devastating strike someone. 

he's right, I hadn't watched your replay when I commented, was just remarking in general. one additional problem is that the armor on the entire royal navy light cruiser line is made of toilet paper, unless you citadel the chance of an overpen is damn near 50%. the only things worse are the aforementioned Smolensk, Omaha, Pensacola and pretty much every DD in the game (and the DDs don't even have citadels).

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Hey

Overpen is simple.  You take any shell, the bigger it is, the bigger the problem.  Make a perfectly lined up shot on any ship, shoot your guns and RNG will tell you it's an over pen.  Makes no difference what the target is, or what your in, it's almost always 1/3 of your total hits will be over pens, 1/3 pens, and 1/3 ricochets/broken shells.  Especially with a BB, not quite as bad with cruisers and DD's.  IT's all RNG and it's ruining the fun of playing.  When your lucky it might be a citadel, but keep looking at your hits at the end of every game.

 

Pete

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4 hours ago, LiaoXanLan said:

No problem. Figure it might help him in the future.

 

I took a look at the replay and I see you’re aiming much too high that your shells are exiting the ship before they can detonate. You need to aim where the water meets the bottom of the ship which is the waterline. That’s where you get those juicy citadel hits and can potentially devastating strike someone.

My second volley was exactly at the waterline and resulted in 6 overpens.

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ok, hard to say definitively with the smoke but it looks like your shells were largely hitting the bow and stern of the Edin from the side. the Edin's belt armor is narrow and doesn't extend much fore or aft, most of what you were shooting at was 16 or 19 MM thick which your guns completely overmatch. so basically big damn guns (relative to the target), German accuracy and hitting toilet paper used as armor means overpens. in other words while you did some decent shooting, RNGeezus took a big dump on your head in terms of where your shells connected. same reason you were getting overpens on the BBs as well, fore and aft there isn't much armor-great when shooting from an angle where you can exploit an overmatch but pretty much nothing when the citadel isn't in your line of fire. in the future if shooting at RN light cruisers you might want to stick with HE if it's viable (in this case with the BBs that were your primary target I understand it wasn't) unless you have a clear line of sight to assure hitting the center of that broadside on the waterline OR dropping shells on the deck from above (not happening with Scharn's shell arcs). and frankly in most BBs you aren't giving up much shooting HE at light cruisers, I can and have citadeled them with HE. don't get me wrong, when RNGeezus is treating your AP right it can be Citadelfest (what's the official beer of Citadelfest?) but at least for me it's just too random to be worth it.

all that said, some VERY nice torping there sir, wish I was that good.

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