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Ensign_Cthulhu

Why I'm not flipping my gourd over the British Cruisers Armory Setup (and you shouldn't either).

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Let's take a trip down memory lane to 2018, before the days when they handed out permacamos for tokens. Early-release ship missions could be obtained from free non-premium event crates won in game, or by purchasing one or more premium crates. In both cases, you had to hope for the best - because it was quite possible for you to go on buying crates until you literally ran out of money and not strike that coveted Tier 8 early unlock.

And even when you got a ship mission out of a crate, you had to grind 2000 base XP per tier to unlock that ship. And then you had to find camo for it, or doubloons if you wanted a permacamo.

Flash forward to 2020. We have a total of 600 tokens we can win, and token bundles in the Armory run 20 tokens apiece for 30 shots at the prizes. The token bundles are infinite, so we're rolling for a chance of a ship each time and we might or we might not get one.

Gee, doesn't that feel a lot like playing to win a total of thirty non-premium event crates? Except now, if you get lucky, that base XP grind is gone and you get a free permacamo.

 

We have doubloon bundles at 1000 a pop. There are sixty five of those, and four of them are GUARANTEED to contain a ship (and its free permacamo). Which four? Who knows, but the fact that there are only 65 means that you literally CAN'T blow all your money and still be s**t-outa-luck. If you're wealthy, obsessive or [edited] enough to buy them all, you WILL get ALL FOUR early unlocks. Unlike the poor fool who, IIRC, spent $500 on premium crates trying to score the Richelieu unlock in early 2018, AND STILL FAILED.

The directives are dead easy, especially when contrasted with what we just went through. This is a very beginner-friendly event.

 

Bottom line: IMHO some things HAVE ACTUALLY IMPROVED with this method. I hated to lose the camos-for-tokens thing, for sure, but I tell you what... I'll be VERY glad not to have to do a base XP grind if I score one or more ships. 

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Agree that this is beginner friendly. I finished this off last night in about 10 games, including two each of Aegis and Narai, without making a particular effort to focus on the directive goals. I ended up getting a small number of one shot camouflages, flags and some silver. Easy missions with poor rewards are a nice change from Puerto Fiasco. 

And before you tell me that this might be easy for me but not a beginner I encourage you to look at my poor stats. 

Edited by KaptainNemo_1
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Ohh, it's improved alright... It's much cheaper at the high end of the paid side. Nobody will have to be like Notser, buying like 200 containers for the T8 RN DD.

That said, RN BBs and RN CVs were my favorite early access stuff if memory serves. It's a shame it has to be all RNG all the time. I like to know putting in effort will pay off, not maybe after maybe.

I've gone several early access events with zero ships dropping. My most recent was the T5 Russian BB, and not for lack of trying to get others. Most of them I get no early access ships.

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1 minute ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

That said, RN BBs and RN CVs were my favorite early access stuff if memory serves.

I wasn't around for the RN BB's (just), but I was for the British carriers. I thought it was fine (I got Hermes and Furious without too much trouble), but IMHO it only worked because there were just three ships to try to unlock instead of four. Trying to fit four into that setup might have been tricky.

The sour part of that event was that you pretty much HAD to spend some money to get enough tokens for Implacable. I had enough of one type but not enough of the other - and because I was travelling at the time and perforce missed a fair number of opportunities, buying the premium crates to get them would have cost me almost exactly as much as Indomitable costs now. In fact, I might even have said that at the time.

7 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Nobody will have to be like Notser, buying like 200 containers for the T8 RN DD.

That was stupid of him, plain and simple. Impatience and greed did that to him, and I have no sympathy for the man. (If WG needed him to have it as a CC, they could have given it to him - and if it so happens that they gave him the money under the table, or a reimbursement form for when he was done, he should have said so.)

 

IIRC Femennenly said they're experimenting with how they give these ships out in a post-crate world, so it'll be interesting to see what they do next time. During the UK CV event, I had enough XP on Wakeful to get Hermes on day 1 of the full line release anyway, so it was a zero-stress situation. Likewise, whether Hawkins ends up branching off of Danae or Emerald, I'm covered. If all else fails, I'll just punch the "Research" and "Buy" buttons and do it the old-fashioned way.

 

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When I was but a wee seaman, we didn't get no stinking' early releases, we had to work our way through the whole tree!  Barefoot in snow!

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2 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

When I was but a wee seaman, we didn't get no stinking' early releases, we had to work our way through the whole tree!  Barefoot in snow!

If it makes you feel any better, I've got over 30,000 XP currently on Danae and over fifty K on Emerald. If I fail to get an early release, I can just punch the research and buy buttons and get grinding. 

That being said, any I do get are credits I won't have to find. Albemarle, for example, probably represents 11-12 million by the time she's fully equipped, and that's before you buy the upgrade modules.

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WG has made it easier for me, I don't even care, if I get early access or the camos any more.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Unlike the poor fool who, IIRC, spent $500 on premium crates trying to score the Richelieu unlock in early 2018, AND STILL FAILED.

Holy crap somebody did that? That's all kinds of stupid; among other reasons, T8 matchmaking back in the day is not something you would want to take a new ship into. 

Thank you for this post. There seems to be a lot of antagonism against this event and for the life of me I don't understand it.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

We have doubloon bundles at 1000 a pop. There are sixty five of those, and four of them are GUARANTEED to contain a ship (and its free permacamo). Which four? Who knows, but the fact that there are only 65 means that you literally CAN'T blow all your money and still be s**t-outa-luck. If you're wealthy, obsessive or foolish enough to buy them all, you WILL get ALL FOUR early unlocks. Unlike the poor fool who, IIRC, spent $500 on premium crates trying to score the Richelieu unlock in early 2018, AND STILL FAILED.

In general I agree with you except for this part here.  Yes the EA approach has been a godsend compared to the old days where an entire line launched at once (remember BBpocalypse back when German BBs came out).  The method here is really great, as old folks got all of them or almost all and all it did was push the most active folks all to be at tier 8 on next patch launch day.   A random shotgun approach with far more limited releases is the real way to spread everyone out.   

Overall great stuff, reasonable grind with multiple levels of rewards to commitment, all good and a good way to launch EA (though I would prefer if the EA was spread more to include the lower tiers.   Between the 3 cvs per side down there and no missions counting ships below 5, the low tiers are deserts of nothing but OP ship playing seal clubbers.   The poor folks who actually need to grind through other lines serve as nothing more than xp pinatas.   The environment really needs to change back to more tiers being viable to play and the EA all starting at 5-8 only contribute to that not happening.  *shrug*

Anyway the doubloon bundles may at first seem better than say the Richelieu crates, but ultimately looking at them the message is clear.   The cost to reward in the game has changed to become much higher.  We have seen it the past half year or so, but nothing as blatant as this.   Past experience shows us the majority of players can't get all the ships unless they buy the last few bundles.   Which means WG is literally pricing tier 5, 6, 7, and 8 tech tree ships at worth 65k doubloons.   Whereas Richelieu could be $500 for nothing, most got all of them in $60-$100.   This is a magnitude of nearly 3 times that much.  

Yes a Tier 8 premium might be priced at 12k-13k doubloons, but that price includes a captain and a perma camo, and a premium ship with baked in credit/xp bonuses and the ability to take any captain of the nation.   Factoring in captain swapping costs, t8 prem camo costs, and approximate baked in bonuses and capt cost, that would put the doub value of a tier 8 tech tree somewhere around 4k-7k.  Heck even if you were to do XP conversion and credit purchase value it isn't costing 65k doubloons to buy a tier 5, 6, 7, and 8 tech tree cruiser ships with port slot but sans captain and camo.   

In other words all 4 ships doubloon value by WG's own valuations of things is worth no more than a third of what they are charging.   Yes, an argument can be made that the early access is a premium price tag, sure, and it is for some.   However it still clearly demonstrates a pricing increase trend by WG that is several times higher than it has been in the past.  For a game which already was charging the high end of the industry, this is not an encouraging sign for the player base.   For members of this forum (NA) who we have heard are responsible for more of the total monetary value spent in game than the other 3 servers combined already, it does feel as if we are being squeezed, and as customers it is both our right and obligation to make such feelings known to the business with whom whose prices we object to.   

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1 minute ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 Past experience shows us the majority of players can't get all the ships unless they buy the last few bundles.   Which means WG is literally pricing tier 5, 6, 7, and 8 tech tree ships at worth 65k doubloons. 

:etc_swear: horsesh**. The ships cost nothing to obtain. They're tech tree.

Tell me who the :etc_swear: is obliging anyone to spend money. NOBODY.

Keep your cool, have a bit of patience, play competently and you can have them all with permacamo (except T5, which doesn't get a standard one) for 6000 doubloons.

If you're so impatient and greedy that you MUST spend to get them all on day 1 of pre-release, you deserve to have your wallet ransacked. At least this time around, there's a hard cap on that and a guarantee of acquisition. Beforehand, we had neither of those things.

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2 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

In general I agree with you except for this part here.  Yes the EA approach has been a godsend compared to the old days where an entire line launched at once (remember BBpocalypse back when German BBs came out).  The method here is really great, as old folks got all of them or almost all and all it did was push the most active folks all to be at tier 8 on next patch launch day.   A random shotgun approach with far more limited releases is the real way to spread everyone out.   

Overall great stuff, reasonable grind with multiple levels of rewards to commitment, all good and a good way to launch EA (though I would prefer if the EA was spread more to include the lower tiers.   Between the 3 cvs per side down there and no missions counting ships below 5, the low tiers are deserts of nothing but OP ship playing seal clubbers.   The poor folks who actually need to grind through other lines serve as nothing more than xp pinatas.   The environment really needs to change back to more tiers being viable to play and the EA all starting at 5-8 only contribute to that not happening.  *shrug*

Anyway the doubloon bundles may at first seem better than say the Richelieu crates, but ultimately looking at them the message is clear.   The cost to reward in the game has changed to become much higher.  We have seen it the past half year or so, but nothing as blatant as this.   Past experience shows us the majority of players can't get all the ships unless they buy the last few bundles.   Which means WG is literally pricing tier 5, 6, 7, and 8 tech tree ships at worth 65k doubloons.   Whereas Richelieu could be $500 for nothing, most got all of them in $60-$100.   This is a magnitude of nearly 3 times that much.  

Yes a Tier 8 premium might be priced at 12k-13k doubloons, but that price includes a captain and a perma camo, and a premium ship with baked in credit/xp bonuses and the ability to take any captain of the nation.   Factoring in captain swapping costs, t8 prem camo costs, and approximate baked in bonuses and capt cost, that would put the doub value of a tier 8 tech tree somewhere around 4k-7k.  Heck even if you were to do XP conversion and credit purchase value it isn't costing 65k doubloons to buy a tier 5, 6, 7, and 8 tech tree cruiser ships with port slot but sans captain and camo.   

In other words all 4 ships doubloon value by WG's own valuations of things is worth no more than a third of what they are charging.   Yes, an argument can be made that the early access is a premium price tag, sure, and it is for some.   However it still clearly demonstrates a pricing increase trend by WG that is several times higher than it has been in the past.  For a game which already was charging the high end of the industry, this is not an encouraging sign for the player base.   For members of this forum (NA) who we have heard are responsible for more of the total monetary value spent in game than the other 3 servers combined already, it does feel as if we are being squeezed, and as customers it is both our right and obligation to make such feelings known to the business with whom whose prices we object to.   

Agree +1

I like the directives this patch, but the doubloon costs look greedy not reasonable.   It is the customer choice to pay it or not but that doest make them reasonably priced. 

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Just now, Uther_cn said:

I like the directives this patch, but the doubloon costs look greedy not reasonable.   It is the customer choice to pay it or not but that doest make them reasonably priced. 

You really don't get it, do you?

These are tech-tree ships. Nobody has to pay anything. Nobody SHOULD pay anything unless the first doubloon bundle in the line is a ship, and then the one after that, and then the one after that... and even then, don't go for the doubloon stack until AFTER your token options are exhausted.

Some people like to spend money on camo and flags. The other bundles are for them. 

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4 hours ago, Uther_cn said:

Agree +1

I like the directives this patch, but the doubloon costs look greedy not reasonable.   It is the customer choice to pay it or not but that doest make them reasonably priced. 

Yeah, but for some reason people think that "don't spend your money on it, then" is somehow a functional dismissal of complaints about how much a seller is trying to charge for something. 

~~~~

At this point threads like this don't surprise me... "If you're angry you're being a [edited]" and "always find the bright side of the [edited]" and "don't blame WG, blame the players" are pretty much like clockwork, completely expected if still a little disappointing from an otherwise intelligent and helpfully-intentioned OP.  

 

E:  didn't realize that "fool" would get edited out... somehow having an [edited] there makes it seem worse than it really was.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

:etc_swear: horsesh**. The ships cost nothing to obtain. They're tech tree.

Tell me who the :etc_swear: is obliging anyone to spend money. NOBODY.

Keep your cool, have a bit of patience, play competently and you can have them all with permacamo (except T5, which doesn't get a standard one) for 6000 doubloons.

If you're so impatient and greedy that you MUST spend to get them all on day 1 of pre-release, you deserve to have your wallet ransacked. At least this time around, there's a hard cap on that and a guarantee of acquisition. Beforehand, we had neither of those things.

I believe that you may have misinterpreted my comments.   I was not making claim that WG is charging only doubloons for tech tree ships nor that we are obliged to buy them.   

What I was stating is that WG has turned an EA event designed to keep the 1k of same ship class/tier in queue at same time on launch day issue at bay into a monetization event for themselves.  Which is fine, they are a business afterall and this is a FTP game.  

I am also stating that WG is obliging the impatient player to spend 3 times what most of them had to spend to get everything on day 1 back during the Richelieu.  


They are not requiring us all to spend that, of course not.   Yes we can just wait and get them as normal tech tree ships are obtained.   I intend to do just that myself.   However the ire presented by many players at a tripling of an item price is a reasonable customer reaction for those customers who have traditionally chosen to buy said product.    Most don't feel that the trade-off of a guarantee vs random is worth the notional cost increase.

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2 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

I am also stating that WG is obliging the impatient player to spend 3 times what most of them had to spend to get everything on day 1 back during the Richelieu.  

BUT SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T. They spent more than that and FAILED.

In this event, WG are trading cost against certainty and seeing how the market responds.

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7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You really don't get it, do you?

These are tech-tree ships. Nobody has to pay anything.

Pretty sure everybody gets that. But for those of us who do want to get the ships early and don't happen to get them by chance from free tokens, they're asking for a lot of money on gambling crates. I'm fine just waiting for the tech tree release if I don't get any. But do you think it's a fair price that somebody might have to spend 65k doubloons on tech tree ships if they want them sooner?

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Just now, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

But do you think it's a fair price that somebody might have to spend 65k doubloons on tech tree ships if they want them sooner?

Their right to choose what they do with their money, and I don't want to go to the place where someone arbitrarily gets to restrict that right.

Like I already said, you're trading cost against certainty. How desperate are you that you MUST have all four on day 1 of pre-release, and how much do you value the stuff that's in the other bundles? That's the question WG is asking its users here.

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

BUT SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T. They spent more than that and FAILED.

In this event, WG are trading cost against certainty and seeing how the market responds.

Correct, and all the complaining posts and threads is part of the market response from players who do not find the certainty worth the increased cost.  

They are neither correct nor incorrect, they are expressing opinion.   

What can be labeled as either correct or incorrect is the cost comparison based on the mean averages and hard numbers.   The previous such EA events had expected mean costs somewhere around either comparable to higher than tech tree equivalents but lower or equal to premium equivalents.  Essentially charging premium ship prices for EA benefit rather than premium ship benefit.   The market seemed to accept that though had complaints about the uncertainty.   This event has mean costs closer to 3 times the old costs but removes the uncertainty.  Yes some will pay much less, and with the uncertainty removed no one will be paying more, whereas the old way some paid less and some paid much more.   

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It's perplexing how complaints about what someone is charging for a product or service, somehow get painted as an attempt to control how individuals  spend their money.  It's an amazing bit of narrative-twisting that corporatists have managed to engrain in our culture, right up there with how criticisms of HOW companies make money are almost reflexively received as threatening THAT they make money at all. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Their right to choose what they do with their money, and I don't want to go to the place where someone arbitrarily gets to restrict that right.

ok? But neither I nor anybody else was suggesting that anyone should restrict that right. So why bother saying so?

Edited by USS_Taylor_Swift
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39 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

In general I agree with you except for this part here.  Yes the EA approach has been a godsend compared to the old days where an entire line launched at once (remember BBpocalypse back when German BBs came out).  The method here is really great, as old folks got all of them or almost all and all it did was push the most active folks all to be at tier 8 on next patch launch day.   A random shotgun approach with far more limited releases is the real way to spread everyone out.

You mean having 200 or 300 or more battleships in the queue simultaneously wasn't a bonus and part of the fun of introducing a new line? You mean to say this game isn't "World of Battleships" like some people claim it already is?

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21 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

all the complaining posts and threads is part of the market response from players who do not find the certainty worth the increased cost.  

...who I suspect want the certainty without the cost.

1 minute ago, Lightninger said:

You mean to say this game isn't "World of Battleships" like some people claim it already is?

Or more generally, "World of [insert new ship line here]".

I can't wait to see what happens when those queues are full of Tier 8 Russian paper CV's with IL-2 Shturmoviks that machine guns and 20mm flak won't even touch, can you? :Smile_trollface:

11 minutes ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

So why bother saying so?

Because some people want to do that, and I need to make it quite clear that I won't stand for it. It's why we're where we are right now.

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Because some people want to do that, and I need to make it quite clear that I won't stand for it. It's why we're where we are right now.

Who wants to do that? Nobody in this thread has said anything along those lines at all. You said it in response to my question, so I'm really confused. How does me saying "hey, do you really think it's fair to charge such an inflated price to Mr. So-and-so for a product that's really not worth anywhere near that much," turn into me saying "I don't think Mr. So-and-so should have the right to pay something he wants?" Somehow you took me from looking out for this guy and wanting him to get offered a better deal, to wanting to take away his right to buy things. That's silly talk.

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4 minutes ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

Who wants to do that? Nobody in this thread has said anything along those lines at all. You said it in response to my question, so I'm really confused. How does me saying "hey, do you really think it's fair to charge such an inflated price to Mr. So-and-so for a product that's really not worth anywhere near that much," turn into me saying "I don't think Mr. So-and-so should have the right to pay something he wants?" Somehow you took me from looking out for this guy and wanting him to get offered a better deal, to wanting to take away his right to buy things. That's silly talk.

As I noted upthread, there's this weird thing where complaints about what a company is charging for something or how they're selling it... get taken as an attack on the economic freedom of the consumer, to the point where it has become an utterly predictable if always perplexing clockwork non-sequitur. 

So when you say "Wargaming is charging too much for this" or "Wargaming's tactics here are questionable"... you can expect at least one poster, maybe several, to respond with something like "stop trying to control how other people spend their money". 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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