UK Heavy's first Impression; HMS Hawkins

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

So lets see, slower the Furutaka (most tier V heavy's are faster.)  HP pool good not great but she has a heal to more then make up for it as long as you don't suck up a killer alpha strike.  Rate of turn is meh as is turn radius.  Cannot tell if it has the quick acceleration of the UK Lights or not. 

 

Single open mount guns.  Bit of a hold over from the previous era.  Gun handling feels very much like the A Hull Furutaka.. Good arcs, range in line with the tier.    traverse is a bit slow, grab one of the Dunkirk brother and give em command to solve that.

 

Torps:   Not many but fairly speedy reload.. decent arcs not super good range not great speed ok but they do the job if you need 'em.

 

 AA for a cruiser at this tier with the second hull is superlative!  4 twin mount 105's   4 quad mount 40mm, 4 quad mount 12.7mm.  Option to take a float fighter or hydro in the consumables.  Heal consumable.. very rare at this tier.

 

Armor is..... interesting.  not going to shed BB shells or though some 8" or smaller incoming if your angles may end up doing nothing...  Multiple layers of armor to punch through to get a cit so it's a little more difficult even though it clearly extends above the water line.

Concealment.  poor so not stealthy that snoop and poop for you my fine friend is a forlorn hope!

Only one battle in with it so far but not bad at all.. it is a Cruiser. no tougher then any other cruiser but can on occasion shed fire that would kill any other cruiser of the tier. got it from the directive granting tokens took the second option in the armory, dropped my 80 tokens there. 

 

Liking it so far. 

[BrushWolf]

3 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

So lets see, slower the Furutaka (most tier V heavy's are faster.)  HP pool good not great but she has a heal to more then make up for it as long as you don't suck up a killer alpha strike.  Rate of turn is meh as is turn radius.  Cannot tell if it has the quick acceleration of the UK Lights or not. 

 

Single open mount guns.  Bit of a hold over from the previous era.  Gun handling feels very much like the A Hull Furutaka.. Good arcs, range in line with the tier.    traverse is a bit slow, grab one of the Dunkirk brother and give em command to solve that.

 

Torps:   Not many but fairly speedy reload.. decent arcs not super good range not great speed ok but they do the job if you need 'em.

 

 AA for a cruiser at this tier with the second hull is superlative!  4 twin mount 105's   4 quad mount 40mm, 4 quad mount 12.7mm.  Option to take a float fighter or hydro in the consumables.  Heal consumable.. very rare at this tier.

 

Armor is..... interesting.  not going to shed BB shells or though some 8" or smaller incoming if your angles may end up doing nothing...  Multiple layers of armor to punch through to get a cit so it's a little more difficult even though it clearly extends above the water line.

Concealment.  poor so not stealthy that snoop and poop for you my fine friend is a forlorn hope!

Only one battle in with it so far but not bad at all.. it is a Cruiser. no tougher then any other cruiser but can on occasion shed fire that would kill any other cruiser of the tier. got it from the directive granting tokens took the second option in the armory, dropped my 80 tokens there. 

 

Liking it so far. 

She is definitely a creature of the era she was built but it is nice that they gave us the upgraded version so it actually has useful AA. I have the Devonshire which I can talk about, a much more modern ship but being a treaty cruiser is a bit brittle, good acceleration, good accurate guns but short range, good AA, looks great with the retro camouflage.

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

She is definitely a creature of the era she was built but it is nice that they gave us the upgraded version so it actually has useful AA. I have the Devonshire which I can talk about, a much more modern ship but being a treaty cruiser is a bit brittle, good acceleration, good accurate guns but short range, good AA, looks great with the retro camouflage.

Oh yes must agree that default chalk white and dark mustard yellow tops superstructure looks very sharp.   She's a lady all right.. costs a fortune to keep her in powder and paint!

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Armor is special for Tier V Cruisers but if caught with her sides, she will instantly implode with this GARGANTUAN CITADEL.

You get caught on the sides, your Repair Party won't save you as you will get multi-citadeled to an instant death.

 

That said, the armor is good IF you can angle and work Overmatch mechanics in your favor, and bounce shells.

 

A major con of this CA is her awful gun angles for her back-mid guns.  A significant temptation is to show sides to fire all your guns.  You do that, you're going to die.  You are basically showing full broadside.

 

So if you are fighting angled, you are only firing 3 190mm guns.

[Meatshield_No13]

What's the reverse angle on the wing turrets like?

Seems like you might be able to bring 4 to bear from a kiting position, making her more suited to kiting plays than aggressive plays.

Yeah the armour has the potential to be very trollish if you can convince people to aim waterline while keeping adequate angle.

[BrushWolf]

14 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Armor is special for Tier V Cruisers but if caught with her sides, she will instantly implode with this GARGANTUAN CITADEL.

You get caught on the sides, your Repair Party won't save you as you will get multi-citadeled to an instant death.

 

That said, the armor is good IF you can angle and work Overmatch mechanics in your favor, and bounce shells.

 

A major con of this CA is her awful gun angles for her back-mid guns.  A significant temptation is to show sides to fire all your guns.  You do that, you're going to die.  You are basically showing full broadside.

 

So if you are fighting angled, you are only firing 3 190mm guns.

All true she is a creature of the era she was built but depending on what you are fighting you can wiggle to get two or three of the remaining guns that can bear into action and then wiggle back.

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

So your saying for her to do well nose tanking, she's gotta sway walk like Mae West getting a millionaires attention?  Ok, I am so down with that!

 

  Little to left little to the right, little to the left little to the right. Umf Umf Umf Umf!

 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

21 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

What's the reverse angle on the wing turrets like?

Seems like you might be able to bring 4 to bear from a kiting position, making her more suited to kiting plays than aggressive plays.

Yeah the armour has the potential to be very trollish if you can convince people to aim waterline while keeping adequate angle.

Did a quick trip into Training Room.  Here you can see several ship angles with varying degrees of main batteries being presented.

Sharpest forward angle while presenting 4 guns.

Spoiler

Sharpest forward angle while presenting 5 guns.

Spoiler

Sharpest forward angle while presenting 6 guns, i.e. Plz Delete Me Angle 

Spoiler

Sharpest kiting angle while presenting 4 guns

Spoiler

Sharpest kiting angle while presenting 5 guns.

Spoiler

Sharpest kiting angle while presenting 6 guns.

Spoiler

 

For those curious, concealment with CE + Camo is 11km.

[BrushWolf]

5 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

So your saying for her to do well nose tanking, she's gotta sway walk like Mae West getting a millionaires attention?  Ok, I am so down with that!

 

  Little to left little to the right, little to the left little to the right. Umf Umf Umf Umf!

 

That is one way to look at it, I use that to get the rear guns of other ships into play and then back to a safer aspect.. You need to play like we did before bow tanking became a thing and stay on the move never presenting the same aspect for long rather like how the Italian cruisers like to be played but with less maneuverability.

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

Dead on the money BrushWolf.  never stop shuffl'n! always be turn'n and burn'n..  I was pretty much centered up the whole match in the middle of this map working center cap.. Had a couple Maxwell Smart moments.. ... missed getting a Krakan by this much!

screenines for the proof of it.. All tier V match.. note air kills.. note a whole bunch of the opfor cruisers showed me way to much side for far too long!

these 190mm are pretty punchy!  And once you get used to the lead you need to take.. very accurate.  Note a total of 116 shells fired for 52 hits...

 

[Crucis]

2 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Oh yes must agree that default chalk white and dark mustard yellow tops superstructure looks very sharp.   She's a lady all right.. costs a fortune to keep her in powder and paint!

I wish that WG would release the USN's Great While Fleet paint scheme as a perma camo, perhaps for USN BBs.

[BrushWolf]

19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I wish that WG would release the USN's Great While Fleet paint scheme as a perma camo, perhaps for USN BBs.

You do get it on the stock hull of the St Louis.

[Battlecruiser_Repulse]

She would have been a much better tier 4. Hawkins reminds me a lot of Karlsruhe more than anything.

York should have been the tier 5.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

This thing fully buffed sounds like it is going to be the antidote to 3-per-side low-tier carrier games. Find the nearest Hawkins, protect it from big nasties, and let it hack the biplanes to death for you.

[StoptheViolins]

If you don't like Hawkins armor you'll hate Surrey.

[_RC1138]

I can say after playing a few matches in the new T8 Ablemarle it most reminds me of the old T7 Pensacola; hit's like a truck, slow reload, and eats cits from everything, but highly maneuverable and surprisingly flexible. Main difference is the lack of range and the RN CL-style heal.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

1 hour ago, _RC1138 said:

I can say after playing a few matches in the new T8 Ablemarle it most reminds me of the old T7 Pensacola; hit's like a truck, slow reload, and eats cits from everything, but highly maneuverable and surprisingly flexible. Main difference is the lack of range and the RN CL-style heal.

That doesn't bode well because lots of people hated Tier VII Pepsi~Cola 

[_RC1138]

1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That doesn't bode well because lots of people hated Tier VII Pepsi~Cola 

I don't think most people are going to like the Ablemarle. Drake looks fun and Goliath looks like it will end up being nerfed in some way (It is basically a mini Conq). Ablemarle would have been fun in Cherry Blossom, but wargaming is blue-balling us all.

[LiaoXanLan]

5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That doesn't bode well because lots of people hated Tier VII Pepsi~Cola 

I don’t hate tier 7 Pepsicola with her huge upgraded turrets, but she also has the ABX setup. The Hawkins might as well be a skip for me. The lay out is meh unless you’re kiting and you don’t get spotted. I think this one of those ships that should be tier 4 and not 5 just for the layout being all over the place.

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

1 hour ago, LiaoXanLan said:

I don’t hate tier 7 Pepsicola with her huge upgraded turrets, but she also has the ABX setup. The Hawkins might as well be a skip for me. The lay out is meh unless you’re kiting and you don’t get spotted. I think this one of those ships that should be tier 4 and not 5 just for the layout being all over the place.

I gotta disagree here at this moment just from years of experience playing the game.    Her main guns are what they are.  They're ok.  Range and rate of fire and dispersion  appropriate for the tier  Tier 5 is where the transition ships go from great war to treaty ships between the wars.   Where she shines is that 44 AA rating which can be improved if you desire to specifically set up for it.  With the heal you can afford to take a risk now and again and there is nothing wrong with her guns.

If she were tier IV she'd be stupidly OP.  As it is I expect her to over perform just nuff to get nerfed a little.

[LiaoXanLan]

4 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

I gotta disagree here at this moment just from years of experience playing the game.    Her main guns are what they are.  They're ok.  Range and rate of fire and dispersion  appropriate for the tier  Tier 5 is where the transition ships go from great war to treaty ships between the wars.   Where she shines is that 44 AA rating which can be improved if you desire to specifically set up for it.  With the heal you can afford to take a risk now and again and there is nothing wrong with her guns.

If she were tier IV she'd be stupidly OP.  As it is I expect her to over perform just nuff to get nerfed a little.

The real question is how often you’re going to use that AA? Besides in a CV match the only things one should look at are guns, armor, and agility and she’s lacking in a sensible gun layout. Her armor is great and I’ll consider it very trollish and the agility is good but her gun layout is something similar to the Omaha without the double barrel turrets on the bow and stern. 

[TL_Warlord_Roff]

How often...  these days pretty doggone often.. lot of 3 CV per side match in low tiers these days.    High AA Rating ship once the CV's figure out you are are either going to get ignored and stayed away from or they'll be on you like flies on a compost pile.  Either way works.   Just scroll up and check the 3 screen shots I posted...this is in the hands of someone who's slightly above average in skill.  The fletcher type main gun layout with 2 wing turrets... what else does that remind you off... Ahh right Atlanta and Flint.   All of these ships suffer because of poor turret layout.  and we all know the Fletch, Flint and Atlanta are horrible ships right?  Umm right?  They're not?  Then why you say Hawkins gun lay out is bad/wonky?

Your objection is single mount guns.    Should look this class up and check their service life..  I suspect they served for quite a number of decades into and through World War-II.

 

                                                                                                                                       

[HazeGrayUnderway]

19 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

How often...  these days pretty doggone often.. lot of 3 CV per side match in low tiers these days.    High AA Rating ship once the CV's figure out you are are either going to get ignored and stayed away from or they'll be on you like flies on a compost pile.  Either way works.   Just scroll up and check the 3 screen shots I posted...this is in the hands of someone who's slightly above average in skill.  The fletcher type main gun layout with 2 wing turrets... what else does that remind you off... Ahh right Atlanta and Flint.   All of these ships suffer because of poor turret layout.  and we all know the Fletch, Flint and Atlanta are horrible ships right?  Umm right?  They're not?  Then why you say Hawkins gun lay out is bad/wonky?

Your objection is single mount guns.    Should look this class up and check their service life..  I suspect they served for quite a number of decades into and through World War-II.

 

                                                                                                                                       

Flint, Atlanta are nimble ships with fast turning turrets and rapid fire guns.  Atlanta can maneuver and the turrets easily keep up tracking the target.  The guns fire rapidly and guns on target isn't an issue.

 

Hawkins isn't any of that.  The turrets are slower, the 190mm guns fire a lot slower.

[LiaoXanLan]

2 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

How often...  these days pretty doggone often.. lot of 3 CV per side match in low tiers these days.    High AA Rating ship once the CV's figure out you are are either going to get ignored and stayed away from or they'll be on you like flies on a compost pile.  Either way works.   Just scroll up and check the 3 screen shots I posted...this is in the hands of someone who's slightly above average in skill.  The fletcher type main gun layout with 2 wing turrets... what else does that remind you off... Ahh right Atlanta and Flint.   All of these ships suffer because of poor turret layout.  and we all know the Fletch, Flint and Atlanta are horrible ships right?  Umm right?  They're not?  Then why you say Hawkins gun lay out is bad/wonky?

Your objection is single mount guns.    Should look this class up and check their service life..  I suspect they served for quite a number of decades into and through World War-II.

 

                                                                                                                                       

The Atlanta and Flint have very good turret layouts with a whole lot of DPM that makes DDs cry in sadness as they get blown out of the water. That is not a good argument.

The single mount guns aren’t the problem. I’ve dealt with it while playing the Furataka and while it wasn’t exactly comfortable at least those guns were an actual benefit despite the long reload. Even the concealment was on par and serviceable. The Hawkins on the other hand doesn’t have any of it. Her guns have a long reload for 7.3” guns (I’m guessing the caliber here but I’m sure it’s at least 7”), the concealment to help make the guns work might as well have you detected all game, the AP is disappointing, and to get the most out of them you have to kite and pray no one bothers to shoot at you mid turn. All of this for guns that aren’t as big as Furataka does not make this a good ship because despite the caliber of guns the reload, range, concealment, and layout of the guns (and ship) all work against her in the current state. Now if her concealment was serviceable, I wouldn’t be objecting to this ship. But the Devonshire is a very substantial upgrade in comparison to the Hawkins it’s honestly a very cruel joke and the Hawkins is with the Emerald as the second worst tier 5 cruiser in the game.

[GSXstage1]

Have seen her in many games so far. I got one also. Had a decent first game in it until.........BB decided to target me and that was it. That is what Ive seen in many games, Hawkins seems to do well until she gets BB focused then she implodes quickly. Still, a Functional tier V Cruiser. My first time out did a nice long range cit on a Furutaka.