Henri IV Nerf - the Nerf that wasn't necessary and no one wanted

[Coolhand2323]

Am I the only one scratching my head about the Henri IV acceleration NERF?  Like, who was complaining about this?  Why was this necessary?  The ship isn't exactly outperforming other classes and its speed is the only thing keeping it attractive to the niche' playerbase that mains in it.  In a meta where fires and fire damage and HE spamming paper boats are out of control, why did the Henri get nerf'd?  If anything needs to be Nerf'd its the Smolensk, Kremlin, and the fire mechanic in general.  Hosho is a little stupid still as well because there is no AA at tier 3/4 to defend against it yet...let's Nerf Henri....because reasons....?

[Kesh_Lives]

3 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

The ship isn't exactly outperforming other classes

Spreadsheet did not agree.  WG loves sledgehammers.  They had to do something, they'd pretty much used the sledgehammers so much on the carriers that they dent leave anything undented.

 

 

[Coolhand2323]

2 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Spreadsheet did not agree.  WG loves sledgehammers.  They had to do something, they'd pretty much used the sledgehammers so much on the carriers that they dent leave anything undented.

 

 

They left Smol and Kremlin alone.  The token "Nerfs" they did were meaningless.

[Vaffu]

9 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

Am I the only one scratching my head about the Henri IV acceleration NERF?  Like, who was complaining about this?  Why was this necessary?  The ship isn't exactly outperforming other classes and its speed is the only thing keeping it attractive to the niche' playerbase that mains in it.  In a meta where fires and fire damage and HE spamming paper boats are out of control, why did the Henri get nerf'd?  If anything needs to be Nerf'd its the Smolensk, Kremlin, and the fire mechanic in general.  Hosho is a little stupid still as well because there is no AA at tier 3/4 to defend against it yet...let's Nerf Henri....because reasons....?

I wanted this nerf.

Henry is near impossible to hit because of its stupid acceleration/deceleration characteristics. A heavy cruiser should not perform like a DD in those respects.

[LiaoXanLan]

There’s a very good reason why it was nerfed and I agree with it to a point. Most cruisers only take maybe 15-20 seconds to reach full speeds and stop. The Henri was notorious to just troll people with it’s ridiculous ability to start and stop on a dime. Obviously WG has seen it as a problem and addressed it.

Also, Kremlin was nerfed to the point I think it’s an undesirable ship now. It has weak AA because it’ll lose it. The guns don’t behave at above 12km. It gets lit on fire because everyone and there mother are going to burn it to a crisp. Then we have the GK that has been -proven- scientifically explored that it can and will beat the Kremlin anyway. 

[RipNuN2]

[Umikami]

39 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

Like, who was complaining about this?

A lot of people who played against her?

45 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

Why was this necessary? 

Because of all those people complaining?

46 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

If anything needs to be Nerf'd its the Smolensk, Kremlin, and the fire mechanic in general. 

OK, well, I guess you have a lot of complaining to do then.

47 minutes ago, Coolhand2323 said:

Hosho is a little stupid still as well because there is no AA at tier 3/4 to defend against it

Yes, but CVs are "SPESHUL" because WG says so.

37 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

I wanted this nerf.

See!

[Khafni]

Seems like an appropriately nick-named bote - HIV. A virus that WG is pulling out the stops to cure...

[neptunes_wrath]

19 minutes ago, Khafni said:

Seems like an appropriately nick-named bote - HIV. A virus that WG is pulling out the stops to cure...

[Crucis]

1 hour ago, Coolhand2323 said:

Am I the only one scratching my head about the Henri IV acceleration NERF?  Like, who was complaining about this?  Why was this necessary?  The ship isn't exactly outperforming other classes and its speed is the only thing keeping it attractive to the niche' playerbase that mains in it.  In a meta where fires and fire damage and HE spamming paper boats are out of control, why did the Henri get nerf'd?  If anything needs to be Nerf'd its the Smolensk, Kremlin, and the fire mechanic in general.  Hosho is a little stupid still as well because there is no AA at tier 3/4 to defend against it yet...let's Nerf Henri....because reasons....?

Actually, in my experience, really good Henri players can be extremely difficult to hit because of that acceleration.  They could sit still in open water and if you aimed at them, they could EASILY accelerate away from your shots unlike nearly any other cruiser.  You could lead them a little in the direction you expected them to go (and did go) and they could still accelerate out from under your lead.

This is the kind of thing that doesn't show up in the normal stats, though I don't know if this is one of the reasons why the Henri got nerfed.

 

And while I don't play tier 4 CVs, I will say that it's wrong to blame the CV for the lack of AA on tier 3/4 ships.  The blame lies with the devs for not putting some AA on those ships.  I've said this before and I'll say it again now.  Historically (and I think that it's important here), those tier 3/4 ships didn't have AA because CVs weren't a threat to them at the time.  But WG has for their own reasons shoehorned CVs into tier 4.  Now, let's play some historical what ifs.  If nations did have some active CVs at that time, it's inane to not think that others nations wouldn't start slapping some AA guns onto their ships IMMEDIATELY.  The AA refits might have been little more than machine guns and light pedestal guns that could be bolted to the decks, but it would have been something!    The Devs really should add some light AA onto those ships that have no or next to no AA, even it's just light short and perhaps medium range AA.

[KilljoyCutter]

Given that this is the fourth thread about this already, maybe the title is ironically appropriate to the thread itself. 

That said, this might be another case where both sides are right -- the ship might have needed a nerf, while at the same time if the reported details of the actual nerf are accurate, then the nerf we got was a wild overcorrection. 

Maybe WG should have just removed the damn Engine Booster gimmick instead.

 

[USS_Taylor_Swift]

32 minutes ago, Umikami said:

A lot of people who played against her?

Because of all those people complaining?

Never here on the forums or in game have I heard people complaining about the Henri. Who are these people you speak of? Where do I find all of their complaints?

[dEsTurbed1]

1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

I wanted this nerf.

Henry is near impossible to hit because of its stupid acceleration/deceleration characteristics. A heavy cruiser should not perform like a DD in those respects.

This ^^

I shot 8 salvos from my Moskva and missed every shell due to speed jukes....

It was my 5th moskva game in a row so it wasn't due to not aiming correctly.

[USS_Taylor_Swift]

Remember the time when nobody complained about the Hindenburg so WG nerfed her reload? Then remember when they unnerfed it? Now they're going in the exact opposite direction and BUFFING it! I have so much faith in the balance department at WG.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Tier X Cruiser Damage Averages, 4th Quarter NA server, courtesy Maplesyrup.

Premium Battlecruiser Stalingrad 92,509 (Steel Ship, traditionally a very exclusive, elite club, but more have probably gotten her now with the recent Snowflakes - Steel event)

CA Venezia 89,731

CA Henri IV 84,361

Premium CL Smolensk 82,457

Premium Battlecruiser Yoshino 79,288

Premium CL Colbert 78,823 (extremely low sample size, 19,127 games)

CA Zao 74,283

CA Hindenburg 72,553

CA Moskva 71,789

Premium Battlecruiser Puerto Rico 65,384 (extremely low sample size, 6,755 games)

CL Worcester 65,071

CA Des Moines 63,793

CL Minotaur 62,816

Premium CA Salem 61,746

 

While Henri IV is indeed doing a lot of damage, she just happens to be in the upper echelons of Tier X Cruisers in damage dealing, and a good number are up there as well.

[Skpstr]

2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 Now, let's play some historical what ifs. 

You mean like what if Bayern and König weren't scuttled after WW1? 

2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

If nations did have some active CVs at that time, it's inane to not think that others nations wouldn't start slapping some AA guns onto their ships IMMEDIATELY.  The AA refits might have been little more than machine guns and light pedestal guns that could be bolted to the decks, but it would have been something! 

And it was actually done IRL, in the case of some of the ships we have. Kolberg was actually built with four 52mm AA guns. (swapped out for a pair of 88mm AA in 1918) Bogatyr got a pair of 75mm AA guns during the same refit where the 152mm main guns were changed to 130mm. Nassau had two of its 88mm secondaries replaced by 88mm AA guns in 1916.

[Crucis]

2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

You mean like what if Bayern and König weren't scuttled after WW1? 

And it was actually done IRL, in the case of some of the ships we have. Kolberg was actually built with four 52mm AA guns. (swapped out for a pair of 88mm AA in 1918) Bogatyr got a pair of 75mm AA guns during the same refit where the 152mm main guns were changed to 130mm. Nassau had two of its 88mm secondaries replaced by 88mm AA guns in 1916.

1. Yeah, sorta.  

 

2. Again, sorta.  Those refits don't look anything like what I'd presume would happen if some legit CVs started being used like the tier 4 ones in the game.  Those refits look more like just adding some minor AA to deal with the occasional singleton plane that might buzz the ship, not a concerted attack by a CV's air wing.

[Skpstr]

1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Again, sorta.  Those refits don't look anything like what I'd presume would happen if some legit CVs started being used like the tier 4 ones in the game.  Those refits look more like just adding some minor AA to deal with the occasional singleton plane that might buzz the ship, not a concerted attack by a CV's air wing.

I agree. I was just pointing out that WG didn't even bother putting on AA that the ships actually had.

 

[KilljoyCutter]

7 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I agree. I was just pointing out that WG didn't even bother putting on AA that the ships actually had.

And even if they didn't have it, in this game, they need it -- "but that ship didn't have AA" seems like a really bad "historicalness hill" for WG to die on given all the non-historical refits, balancing changes, etc they've done with other ships. 

 

[Taichunger]

41 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Actually, in my experience, really good Henri players can be extremely difficult to hit because of that acceleration.  They could sit still in open water and if you aimed at them, they could EASILY accelerate away from your shots unlike nearly any other cruiser.  You could lead them a little in the direction you expected them to go (and did go) and they could still accelerate out from under your lead.

Yeah, like you said, it doesn't show up in normal stats. So I wonder how they knew it needed a nerf? The forum hasn't exactly been filled with posts like "Nerf Henri, I can't hit it". Is there some secret complaint line? 

 

[Crucis]

1 minute ago, Taichunger said:

Yeah, like you said, it doesn't show up in normal stats. So I wonder how they knew it needed a nerf? The forum hasn't exactly been filled with posts like "Nerf Henri, I can't hit it". Is there some secret complaint line? 

 

That's a fair question, Tai.  And I don't have a fair answer.  

[Kesh_Lives]

3 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Yeah, like you said, it doesn't show up in normal stats. So I wonder how they knew it needed a nerf? The forum hasn't exactly been filled with posts like "Nerf Henri, I can't hit it". Is there some secret complaint line? 

Well, if there's a ratio of damage done vs damage taken, and sort out various classes of players, like they mentioned on Smolensk, it might show up as an anomaly.

i.e. harder to hit than contemporaries.  Of course, they have data that we don't have and that may not even be in the API. 

[Taichunger]

Just now, Kirov_Six said:

Well, if there's a ratio of damage done vs damage taken, and sort out various classes of players, like they mentioned on Smolensk, it might show up as an anomaly.

i.e. harder to hit than contemporaries.

Yeah, maybe, or in the potential damage stats. 

[Xcalib3r]

1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

I wanted this nerf.

Henry is near impossible to hit because of its stupid acceleration/deceleration characteristics. A heavy cruiser should not perform like a DD in those respects.

me too!

 

Personally i did well in my Henri, that thing was able to juke like nobody business, and it was very difficult to hit by most BB especially when some BB have low velocity.  

Out of all the flankers the Henri was very annoying, more so than Zao or Hindenburg.  lol

[pikohan]

I don't know; I think it needed a nerf. Maybe not so much, but that's just WG gonna WG.