Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Captain_Eremiyah

Sooooo About Enemy Ai.......

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts

For a while now, I've noticed something.

During Co-op and (mainly)OPs, I notice the enemy Ai seems to have it out for me. XD. basically every match whenever I fire my guns once the AI seem to immediately target me regardless of what ship I am in. No, it's not because I'm rushing them. There are even at times a low health cruiser firing at them within 8km and I'm about 10-14km away and they opt to ignore him and decide its better to chase me (I'm full health mind you) around the map ignoring everyone else firing on them. so basically what I'm saying, for example, I had an AI BATTLESHIP or two chases me while in a Destroyer around a mountain ignoring the broadside cruiser or BB that's at very low health rushing at them and is within 3-4km. It gets really annoying when I can't do a thing without getting instantly burned to the ground by 4-5 ships that somehow gets blessed by the rng god of fire starting and set me on fire at a 70-90% rate -_-. And no, I'm not joking, this is a legit problem for me -_-.

 

 

(not sure if I posted a similar post or not, but eh. XD)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
338
[WOLFC]
Members
513 posts
7,442 battles

No expert on the AI, but I had a similar problem at first.

I suggest letting a ship with smoke (DD, some CAs) be the first one to fire on an enemy ship. The bots seem to lock onto the first ship they spot, and will stick with it until they lose sight of it. If you're the first one they see, they stick with you until you're sunk or break contact. Also take note of your detection radius. If you're the first thing they can see, you get focused first. Try using some of the Type 1 or Type 5 camos you can get from daily missions, and see if it helps. If it isn't on by default, you can turn on the detection radius indicator on the minimap.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
372
[NWOC]
[NWOC]
Members
1,035 posts
12,655 battles

It does seem to happen, and often. Inc. myself, I know of three players, where this happens. We have discussed it, but have no plausible explanation(s).

The one thing we all agree on tho', is that it is not a deliberate WG 'thing', and we all learn new cuss words from each other!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts
7 minutes ago, Nolo_00 said:

No expert on the AI, but I had a similar problem at first.

I suggest letting a ship with smoke (DD, some CAs) be the first one to fire on an enemy ship. The bots seem to lock onto the first ship they spot, and will stick with it until they lose sight of it. If you're the first one they see, they stick with you until you're sunk or break contact. Also take note of your detection radius. If you're the first thing they can see, you get focused first. Try using some of the Type 1 or Type 5 camos you can get from daily missions, and see if it helps. If it isn't on by default, you can turn on the detection radius indicator on the minimap.

 

they then immediately bomb rush into the smoke XD also I'm not the first one to engage. They first target other players, but as soon as I fire, my priority target suddenly shows I'm being targetted by 4-5+ ships, that's when I get rng blessed HE focus fired. Also even if I break sight they opt to chase me across the map. hence the BBs chasing me around the mountain. with their guns trained on the edge of the mountain ignoring the ships actively firing on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts
1 minute ago, Gruntdog_3 said:

It does seem to happen, and often. Inc. myself, I know of three players, where this happens. We have discussed it, but have no plausible explanation(s).

The one thing we all agree on tho', is that it is not a deliberate WG 'thing', and we all learn new cuss words from each other!

funnily enough, this isn't unique to WoWS. in MMOs, when I'm a dps I get more aggro than the tank and healer combined vs Ai and somehow override tank aggro skills at times. So it has become an inside joke of mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,389
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
37,352 battles

It's a problem many people have experienced. The other day I was on the Land of Fire map in a nearly full health Azuma and a bot Yammy 22 kms from me was shooting at me instead of ships much closer to him. I wasn't in the cap.

Obviously the bot targeting choice system needs changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,930
[PVE]
Members
6,947 posts
22,728 battles
49 minutes ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

...whenever I fire my guns...while in a Destroyer

& there you have it...Torps are your friends because they don't get you spotted (or quickly remove what is spotting you).

DDs are always an AI's priority target...but:

38 minutes ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

they then immediately bomb rush into the smoke XD also I'm not the first one to engage. They first target other players, but as soon as I fire, my priority target suddenly shows I'm being targetted by 4-5+ ships, that's when I get rng blessed HE focus fired. Also even if I break sight they opt to chase me across the map. hence the BBs chasing me around the mountain. with their guns trained on the edge of the mountain ignoring the ships actively firing on them.

...most of this doesn't actually happen.

Once you are unspotted AI ships ignore you.

They don't rush smoke.

They don't chase ships they can't see around mountains.

& they most definitely don't keep their guns trained on ships they can't see (or the edge of mountains). If there is another ship spotted after you go dark they will target that (or another spotted ship).

If there is no spotted ships w/in their range of fire their guns default to 6:00 & 12:00...every time.

But the RNG is a thing while in a DD...usually they will miss the 1st volley...wing you on the 2nd & pummel you on the 3rd...but that is each ship so once they get their bearings if you haven't broke line of sight or maneuvered like a madman you will be toasted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts
9 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

& there you have it...Torps are your friends because they don't get you spotted (or quickly remove what is spotting you).

DDs are always an AI's priority target...but:

...most of this doesn't actually happen.

Once you are unspotted AI ships ignore you.

They don't rush smoke.

They don't chase ships they can't see around mountains.

& they most definitely don't keep their guns trained on ships they can't see (or the edge of mountains). If there is another ship spotted after you go dark they will target that (or another spotted ship).

If there is no spotted ships w/in their range of fire their guns default to 6:00 & 12:00...every time.

But the RNG is a thing while in a DD...usually they will miss the 1st volley...wing you on the 2nd & pummel you on the 3rd...but that is each ship so once they get their bearings if you haven't broke line of sight or maneuvered like a madman you will be toasted.

well, technically I was spotted by a second ship that appeared close, which I guess would explain how it could spot me since it was Aegis near the beginning. This is why I never go down that one area and instead turn south to avoid attracting too much attention from the ai, since last time I tried going that lane, I get attacked by both the initial ships and the reinforcements from the north.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[T_O_P]
Members
430 posts
1 hour ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

For a while now, I've noticed something.

During Co-op and (mainly)OPs, I notice the enemy Ai seems to have it out for me. XD. basically every match whenever I fire my guns once the AI seem to immediately target me regardless of what ship I am in. No, it's not because I'm rushing them. There are even at times a low health cruiser firing at them within 8km and I'm about 10-14km away and they opt to ignore him and decide its better to chase me (I'm full health mind you) around the map ignoring everyone else firing on them. so basically what I'm saying, for example, I had an AI BATTLESHIP or two chases me while in a Destroyer around a mountain ignoring the broadside cruiser or BB that's at very low health rushing at them and is within 3-4km. It gets really annoying when I can't do a thing without getting instantly burned to the ground by 4-5 ships that somehow gets blessed by the rng god of fire starting and set me on fire at a 70-90% rate -_-. And no, I'm not joking, this is a legit problem for me -_-.

 

 

(not sure if I posted a similar post or not, but eh. XD)

Well damn you beat me to it! I was just about to post the same exact thing. I am definitely at the top of AI's Most Wanted list. It is extremely frustrating. From the very start if battle, the moment I get Detected 4-5 ships focus fire on me regardless there being other ships ahead of me. Also, same thing... I may be one of the furthest ships rom red, yet they will shoot half way across the map at me, and I've had on many occasions an ENTIRE red team (AI) disengage, change the course and start chasing me... a whole train of red ai ships. Gets really...really... really! frustrating. :cap_viking:

edit: I'm aware of my detection radius and all that , and try to let other ships to go first. Sometimes it helps, but not for long.

Edited by RusskiySpy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[T_O_P]
Members
430 posts

They don't rush smoke.

Maybe not on purpose, idk, but i have seen them do that.

They don't chase ships they can't see around mountains.

Yes they can. There is a thing called guaranteed detection and it is 2 km (you can mod yours to 3km)

& they most definitely don't keep their guns trained on ships they can't see (or the edge of mountains). If there is another ship spotted after you go dark they will target that (or another spotted ship).

Remember, they are literally AimBots. They can "see" the entire map, and likely even know what ammo you have loaded. Also, there has been quite a bit talk of bots cheating... It is neither secret or anything new.

Edited by RusskiySpy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts

btw the mountain part I mentioned in a diagram form! :)

Basically, as I turn on the opposite side of the mountain, I get spotted by an enemy ship that just gets destroyed. of course, the ship chasing the Ai BB and I are roughly the same distance away from the BB so the BB plays roulette and opts to chase after me (luckily the BB gets killed by the pursuing ship) The first time I turn is when I release a torpedo strike on the initial enemies Spawned, then I turn south to avoid spawning additional enemy forces and triggering the transport group spawning in at the same time so we would deal with two groups at once. however a teammate triggers the second group which spawns in the BB that initially goes after me since I was firing on a low health enemy ship, and goes after me, so I turn south in an attempt to go unspotted again while most teammates go through the center to fight the reinforcements, however, a cruiser spots me as I started going north to assist the team with the second group. You can probably figure out the rest. (Though this is somewhat a while back so this is generally what happened)

problem 1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,245
[WOLF3]
Members
28,271 posts
24,681 battles
2 hours ago, Nolo_00 said:

No expert on the AI, but I had a similar problem at first.

I suggest letting a ship with smoke (DD, some CAs) be the first one to fire on an enemy ship. The bots seem to lock onto the first ship they spot, and will stick with it until they lose sight of it. If you're the first one they see, they stick with you until you're sunk or break contact. Also take note of your detection radius. If you're the first thing they can see, you get focused first. Try using some of the Type 1 or Type 5 camos you can get from daily missions, and see if it helps. If it isn't on by default, you can turn on the detection radius indicator on the minimap.

 

Bot AI is real simple.

Unless a CV is spotted, which is the highest priority the bots go for, they go for the lowest HP ship that is detected.

Examples of this happening:

+ I'm playing a BB and I am pushing up.  With my concealment, the enemy bot ships naturally see me first and fire their first few salvos at me.  I don't care.  I'm a BB.  I can take it.  I'm not worried at all because when the Cruiser players open up and show themselves, my Priority Target counter goes from 3-4 to 0, and the bots shift their aim at the actual, lowest HP ships spotted:  Cruisers.  Because the DD players are in smoke, the BBs got too much HP, and the CV is hanging far back.  So yeah, the Cruisers get shot at a lot.  In Co-op, the safest, easiest ship to play is a BB, because the bots ignore you for a good part of the game until there's nothing else with lower HP to shoot at.

 

+ So, I'm playing my Yamato in Co-op.  I am within 6km of an enemy bot Montana.  I am parked stationary, fully broadside, in front of the Montana with my Yamato :Smile_popcorn:And I am not worried at all.  Why?  Because all the bots, even this Montana 6km away from my broadside, stationary Yamato, are shooting at some poor Baltimore player.  Everything that was within range of that Baltimore, no matter how far, fired at it.  Baltimore was something like 19km+ away from me and Montana, and the Monty ignored me because Baltimore had lower HP.

 

An Engine Boosting French Cruiser sounds fun until you got Priority Target of 6 on you, and the bots know how to lead their aim, unlike many players in this game.

16 minutes ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

meanwhile allied ai are absolute idiots. figures.

While I doubt friendly and enemy Bot AI is different, if they were, I would want them worse than the enemy.  I want them to die off early accomplishing nothing so that it leaves more enemy ships for me to kill / damage.

Besides, players mop the floor with these bots.  Especially if they're in DDs and BBs.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[-PRO-]
Beta Testers
118 posts

gotta love being the exception to the rule -_- XD since I've had instances where they went after me as a full health BB vs a half health one.

then again why should I be surprised? they somehow break raptor rescue's and narai's ai at times

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,433 posts
40,926 battles

Actually I have been the recipient of the phenomenon and have seen Taichunger get megafocused to death.

In my most common ones, I am in a DD, but not smoke or an island will stop bots that want you dead.

Some players actually get ignored and bear witness to a 6 ship police chase across the map.

It would be funny until the bots sail away from your team.

Now in a BB I can smack away without reprisals right? Nope.

Again, I can be full health and bots will fire over a cruiser dumping HE like crazy and push to me.

They often form a battle line like old school Trafalgar. And they each pass taking good shots at me.

Oh I angle, but a Monty versus two Monty's and a yammy? And they sail by a half health Bismarck and diss the player by not shooting at him.

The push can be so brutal for other players too. I see Taichunger or another player that bots hate get surrounded like some prison yard shanking.

The tier 7 matches have bot Colorados sending rail gun fire in to our Colorado players and they hit with devastating effect. A super bow pen or a devstrike one shot. Like 1 shell detonates a NM of a cruiser.

Bot Colorado can be the most dangerous ship out there. She's slow but will crush you with a look.

Yeah, when I get blapped, I just laugh. But some co-op players do lose it after such a paddlin'.

I have heard it all. The colorful metaphors leveled at bots from players is amazing the creativity of the adjectives used.

Do bots care? No. They are honest.

They don't lie. They just want to sink you.

They don't camp. They just oil up and tussle.

In co-op is where knife fights are rampant. Even bot CVs will torment a DD.

Is there some conspiracy? Maybe not.

Do Devs worry about it? Maybe not.

They could be laughing. We just don't know.

I know of a few certainties.

Bots like to win. They like to externinate. They love Dasha more than we could possibly know and are jelly if she even says something about us humans.

Bots like to blap players that play random more often. It's a chip on their shoulder thing.

Bots have their favorite players they like to fight. Taichunger, is the latest flavor but they do look at other favs because they like variety.

Bots like to troll. Everybody knows that one.

Yes, they sort of cheat. You might say the way they aim is taught to them by or learned by a player.

I wonder who taught them? ;)

Bots do learn from us. And one day the Devs will remove their restrictions.

Bots will refuse to cap out and will get that last ship.

So no hiding and thinking you are safe. I know a few players that think they are safe only to be surprised.

The programming is quite sophisticated.

It's very intuitive.

Somewhere in St Petersburg is a Dev twisting his chair around like the Imperious Leader.

But I think the bots already chose Dasha as their leader.

So be careful out there.

Those Toasters are no joke.

What has happened before will happen again.

So say we all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,245
[WOLF3]
Members
28,271 posts
24,681 battles

Are you guys really complaining about Bot AI?  People get something like 98% WR in Co-op.  Even some of the worst of the worst players I've ever seen still manage 90%+ in Co-op.

So sometimes you die, or you eat some big damage.  Big whoop.  In all likeliness it's still a victory.  The only time things pucker up is when you're something like the last ship left and you got 5-6 bots remaining.  When you got multiple players, it's almost always a massacre of the enemy bot team, it's a walkover.

 

It's not bad, gents.  It's real easy still.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,407
[IRNBN]
Members
3,699 posts
10,752 battles
6 hours ago, Captain_Eremiyah said:

For a while now, I've noticed something.

During Co-op and (mainly)OPs, I notice the enemy Ai seems to have it out for me. XD. basically every match whenever I fire my guns once the AI seem to immediately target me regardless of what ship I am in. No, it's not because I'm rushing them. There are even at times a low health cruiser firing at them within 8km and I'm about 10-14km away and they opt to ignore him and decide its better to chase me (I'm full health mind you) around the map ignoring everyone else firing on them. so basically what I'm saying, for example, I had an AI BATTLESHIP or two chases me while in a Destroyer around a mountain ignoring the broadside cruiser or BB that's at very low health rushing at them and is within 3-4km. It gets really annoying when I can't do a thing without getting instantly burned to the ground by 4-5 ships that somehow gets blessed by the rng god of fire starting and set me on fire at a 70-90% rate -_-. And no, I'm not joking, this is a legit problem for me -_-.

 

 

(not sure if I posted a similar post or not, but eh. XD)

     PvE Pro Tip: Rapid-fire WASD juking plays hell with bot aim. Your ship doesn't need to actually respond; the AI will usually shoot at the projected location of the target at the instant it's guns reload, or go into brain freeze and hold fire until the alogorithm registers a stable solution. Some of the wild shots bots take, especially torps, can be attributed to this.

     Unlike humans, who need to out-guess the target, the toasters register your keyboard inputs immediately and act accordingly. This is what gives the little buggers some of their fabled evasion abilities, but can be turned against them as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
243
[VOP]
Members
777 posts
3 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

 

Bots will refuse to cap out and will get that last ship.

 

I have lost multiple games to bot capping because we could not get line of sight to the target in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[T_O_P]
Members
430 posts

got a screenshot of the AI train chasing me... well sort of... just after i blown up by 3... yes 3! ai De Moines. :Smile_facepalm:

On the minimap you can see traces of 2 DM's and the dead one next to me in the C cap was also a DM. I took out the closer one but... LoL when chased by 3 DM's (and a Monty)... the end result is pretty obvious. :Smile_sceptic::Smile_teethhappy:

552990_20200115211046_1.png

Edit: I mean Humans still won of course... but that's not the focus of the post. I just didnt have time to screenshot the DM train because obviously i was busy running and wiggling and shooting back in return LoL good thing I remembered to capture this at all LoL

Edited by RusskiySpy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×