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Badowa

French DD changes and builds

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I've been learning the French DDs over the past several weeks and have been running a stealth ambush focused build. I was wondering how the upcoming nerfs will affect everyone's builds, I've thought about ditching concealment and going for a full gunboat instead as I've just unlocked the Kleber but haven't slotted a captain on it yet.

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With Kleber you torp and concealment will be at 8 km.

It is still worth being able to go dark.

You will just loose that ability to stealth torp easily.

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I will probably end up spec'ing the Kleber into an AFT build with engine mod/steering gears combo instead of any form of concealment, kinda like old Khaba.  I already dabbled with the build, minus AFT, in Ranked.  It was pretty comfortable to play, but I ultimately scrapped it for an ambush build.  I'm waiting to see if they do end up making the change for certain before I rebuild my captain and ship mods.

Edited by Deviathan

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I’m not trying to come across as a jerk, but I’ve never considered the French DDs to be viable ships, which is why I never bothered playing them. I have never had significant problems in dealing with an equal tier French DD in some form or another.

If anything, I would expect the stats to improve, as happened with the Khabarovsk. People will no longer attempt to use them as “DD hunters”. A job they are laughably ill suited for. They’ll still play like the nerfed VMF DDs they were at release.

Thats my thoughts, as a DD main.

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2 hours ago, Badowa said:

I've been learning the French DDs over the past several weeks and have been running a stealth ambush focused build. I was wondering how the upcoming nerfs will affect everyone's builds, I've thought about ditching concealment and going for a full gunboat instead as I've just unlocked the Kleber but haven't slotted a captain on it yet.

French DDs were never about the torpedoes in the first place. If you look a bit more carefully, you’ll notice they excel for self defense against a DD (MBRM) and open water harassment. Having torpedoes is just something nice to have and WG is making adjustments to let the French be better open water harassers than the RU gunboats.

 

10 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

They’ll still play like the nerfed VMF DDs they were at release.

I think they’re better gunboats than the RU gunboats. It mostly comes down to two things: MRBM and the gimmick of having damage saturation.

The Khaba would love to have damage saturation as a gimmick and that’s assuming it survives a full AP salvo.

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Just now, LiaoXanLan said:

The Khaba would love to have damage saturation as a gimmick and that’s assuming it survives a full AP salvo.

Kaba also has a healing ability.

@Femennenly

I would assume a 1K concealment nerf would constitute a no cost respec, or are we up the creek without a paddle.

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1 minute ago, LiaoXanLan said:

I think they’re better gunboats than the RU gunboats. It mostly comes down to two things: MRBM and the gimmick of having damage saturation.

The Khaba would love to have damage saturation as a gimmick and that’s assuming it survives a full AP salvo.

Personally, MBRB is about as useful as ice skates in Florida. On the JB and French cruisers I use it at the first reasonable chance and forget about it till it’s off cooldown. On the DDs it’s trivial to bait it out.

I have never noticed this supposed “damage saturation” buff they have. They are no more difficult to kill than anything else in my experience. If anything, they’re easier to kill. Due to the lack of smoke.

The AP pen issue on the Khabarovsk is another matter entirely. I’d still take my Khab over a Keebler due to the superior versatility.

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4 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

Kaba also has a healing ability.

@Femennenly

I would assume a 1K concealment nerf would constitute a no cost respec, or are we up the creek without a paddle.

No, that would not constitute a free respec. The commander skills have not changed. However, since there will be a Clan Battles season soon, if you play one game within that you will have a window for free respecs on TX ships anyway.

So you'll get one closeby, but not for the reason you want.

Fem, 

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9 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

Kaba also has a healing ability.

 

 

That healing ability is only useful while it doesn’t get nuked by AP. Otherwise it might as well not exist.

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6 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Personally, MBRB is about as useful as ice skates in Florida. On the JB and French cruisers I use it at the first reasonable chance and forget about it till it’s off cooldown. On the DDs it’s trivial to bait it out.

Only if they are willing to use it on a moments notice. However the best times to always use it is when you can’t possibly miss and normally against a gunboat DD. Then the French DD can just wipe out the gearing/kitakaze/Tashkent in a matter of seconds. Absolutely devastating.

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11 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Personally, MBRB is about as useful as ice skates in Florida. On the JB and French cruisers I use it at the first reasonable chance and forget about it till it’s off cooldown. On the DDs it’s trivial to bait it out.

I have never noticed this supposed “damage saturation” buff they have. They are no more difficult to kill than anything else in my experience. If anything, they’re easier to kill. Due to the lack of smoke.

The AP pen issue on the Khabarovsk is another matter entirely. I’d still take my Khab over a Keebler due to the superior versatility.

MBRB makes it really easy to burst down a DD, or beat up a broadsiding cruiser with AP.  People do fall into the trap of thinking they can pubstomp other DDs under any circumstance, and then they get overly aggressive and get smacked, but that doesn't say anything about the ships themselves.  I think the line is quite good if you know what you're doing with them.

Edited by Deviathan

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14 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Personally, MBRB is about as useful as ice skates in Florida. On the JB and French cruisers I use it at the first reasonable chance and forget about it till it’s off cooldown. On the DDs it’s trivial to bait it out.

If you think reload booster is useless, that suggests an obvious reason why you'd think the French DDs are bad.

 

MBRB isn't trivial to bait, rather a lot of players will overextend in a French DD because they think MBRB is an auto win button (which it kind of is, to be fair). Even though Daring countering Kleber is a meme the British smokes are pretty ok for outtrading it in a 1v1, but a ship having a counter doesn't mean it isn't good and there's also not much of a reason for the Kleber to take a 1v1 against a Daring that isn't radared in the first place.

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2 hours ago, Deviathan said:

I will probably end up spec'ing the Kleber into an AFT build with engine mod/steering gears combo instead of any form of concealment, kinda like old Khaba.  I already dabbled with the build, minus AFT, in Ranked.  It was pretty comfortable to play, but I ultimately scrapped it for an ambush build.  I'm waiting to see if they do end up making the change for certain before I rebuild my captain and ship mods.

I also considered an AFT build on my Kleb after the nerf was announced. I found that honestly, it didn’t need it as much as it needed the other 3 point skills and 2 point skills, as 13km was mire than enough to dodge and still hit targets at the same time. Past 14km the only thing I was able to really pound on was the stationary stuff. So I just ended up taking no 4 point skills. I’m enjoying it, but it will 100% be not as good with the 1km detect nerf. I won’t be able to do the early aggressive stuff as well. Stuff like getting zoned by a Shima and his BBs 11km behind him will be worse. Additionally your anti DD power drops off dramatically around that 8km range. Kleb has good gun arcs, but not Russian good arcs. 7km is easy farm town on DDs. 8km gets a bit more sketchy, which is where you will have to sit now when supporting a spotter buddy.

AFT helps with the zoned by a Shima scenario, which is where you would consider it. However in the Thunderer/Kurfurst meta where BBs actually jiggle and kite it’s not a great solution. If I really miss the range post nerf (I’m not now), I’ll probably just resort to equipping the range mod instead of the reload mod instead of giving up BFT/DE/SI/SE + a 1 point skill. There’s an argument for DE and a 1 point skill for AFT and the reload mod, but since an even larger portion of your damage is going to be based on Reload Booster + fires after a DCP, I’m not so sure about that.

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1 hour ago, Sou1forge said:

I also considered an AFT build on my Kleb after the nerf was announced. I found that honestly, it didn’t need it as much as it needed the other 3 point skills and 2 point skills, as 13km was mire than enough to dodge and still hit targets at the same time. Past 14km the only thing I was able to really pound on was the stationary stuff. So I just ended up taking no 4 point skills. I’m enjoying it, but it will 100% be not as good with the 1km detect nerf. I won’t be able to do the early aggressive stuff as well. Stuff like getting zoned by a Shima and his BBs 11km behind him will be worse. Additionally your anti DD power drops off dramatically around that 8km range. Kleb has good gun arcs, but not Russian good arcs. 7km is easy farm town on DDs. 8km gets a bit more sketchy, which is where you will have to sit now when supporting a spotter buddy.

AFT helps with the zoned by a Shima scenario, which is where you would consider it. However in the Thunderer/Kurfurst meta where BBs actually jiggle and kite it’s not a great solution. If I really miss the range post nerf (I’m not now), I’ll probably just resort to equipping the range mod instead of the reload mod instead of giving up BFT/DE/SI/SE + a 1 point skill. There’s an argument for DE and a 1 point skill for AFT and the reload mod, but since an even larger portion of your damage is going to be based on Reload Booster + fires after a DCP, I’m not so sure about that.

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PFSD110&modules=11111&upgrades=142232&commander=PCW001&skills=7521281&ar=100&consumables=111

This was the build I was running, which I suspect is a very similar build to what you're running.  I could get away with 8.6km conceal and 13.5km range since it doesn't eat full AP pens, but where I ran into problems was DD who knew how to use the detection range difference and stayed close enough to their support who were willing to shoot me, which is why I switched out of it in Ranked (have yet to play Kleber in Randoms because I've been focusing on regrinds) and forgot to switch back when respecs were still free.  Honestly, 13.5km range felt like enough, so we'll see how it feels with the extra detect range.  Will just have to see if it does more than make a difference in how I approach the early game.

Edited by Deviathan

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15 hours ago, LiaoXanLan said:

Only if they are willing to use it on a moments notice. However the best times to always use it is when you can’t possibly miss and normally against a gunboat DD. Then the French DD can just wipe out the gearing/kitakaze/Tashkent in a matter of seconds. Absolutely devastating.

That never happens because the French ship will never get to those ranges. I’ve never seen it or had such a thing happen to me. Perhaps the lower tiers? Sure I can do such a thing in my Jutland, with its 5.7 conceal and smoke for quick disengagement. The French tubs? LOLno.

The only time i can conceive of that happening is ambushing someone camping smoke. In which case you’d be better off dumping torps and moping up whatever health they have left.

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1 hour ago, HazardDrake said:

That never happens because the French ship will never get to those ranges. I’ve never seen it or had such a thing happen to me. Perhaps the lower tiers? Sure I can do such a thing in my Jutland, with its 5.7 conceal and smoke for quick disengagement. The French tubs? LOLno.

The only time i can conceive of that happening is ambushing someone camping smoke. In which case you’d be better off dumping torps and moping up whatever health they have left.

You’d be surprised how many people even at high tiers found themselves face to face with a French DD they weren’t expecting to see. Whatever the RU gunboats can do the French does better and without a heal.

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13 hours ago, Deviathan said:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PFSD110&modules=11111&upgrades=142232&commander=PCW001&skills=7521281&ar=100&consumables=111

This was the build I was running, which I suspect is a very similar build to what you're running.  I could get away with 8.6km conceal and 13.5km range since it doesn't eat full AP pens, but where I ran into problems was DD who knew how to use the detection range difference and stayed close enough to their support who were willing to shoot me, which is why I switched out of it in Ranked (have yet to play Kleber in Randoms because I've been focusing on regrinds) and forgot to switch back when respecs were still free.  Honestly, 13.5km range felt like enough, so we'll see how it feels with the extra detect range.  Will just have to see if it does more than make a difference in how I approach the early game.

That is exactly my build, as is exactly my experience.

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