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shadowsrmine

Notser Makes a Good Point Here

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I care about winning personally, but..I agree.  Funny..I recall this other game, Eternal Crusade.  Siege maps especially. The Mad, frantic, Brutal battles of that game and the final victory as the final point is overrun, as the attacker team fires in the air to celebrate a victory hard fought. You don't get that much.  WoWs players need to care more about winning.  I recognize many do care, but they don't try enough sometimes.  Seems common with BB and cruisers.

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In other news, water is wet.

A stopped clock is right twice a day (unless it's a mechanically-driven digital built for 24 hour time; then once).  I stopped being able to listen to Notser a long time ago. 

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There is no such thing as a "blow-out meta."  Blow-outs are a result of the the current one.  The current meta encourages selfish and timid behavior.  The blow-outs are a result of one team being just aggressive enough.  When things start going down hill, people one at a time try to get aggressive and they get obliterated.  Once you lose a couple of ships it's a snowball effect.  This will never change because almost no one uses in game voice chat to give direction, and even if they did, most people would refuse to listen.  'Who made you in charge, you can't tell me what to do!"  

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Close battles are very rare these days. One team rolling the other seems to be the common denominator. Either win big or lose big. Yeah, it's freaking boring as hell. Evenly matched teams playing till the last few minutes is what I think of fun.  

Edited by STINKWEED_
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I like notser, there is no such thing as "blow-out" meta... That phrase was used only for propaganda purposes  to state a catchy head-line...

Notser forgets, the one who gets more DMG (not the kill it self), gets more rewards then someone who "secured" the kill... (kill stealing is a myth in a team game, I am not going to hold fire if a target will sink my teammate... I am sinking it first).

Games are no longer fun or contested when, certain ship classes, certain ordnance are OP. (one side has the TXs the other two NYs, who you think have the adv ?Point made).

From what I am seeing from the DEV blog and ST, BB dominance and ordnance discrimination will continue for the 3rd straight year.

Sometimes I worry about Notser, not knowing that you get more rewards for

  • Capping
  • taking a % of HP from ships and not kills..

Should be known by him by now... Does anyone know if Notser is ok ??I am just concerned...

 

Edited by Navalpride33
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We've been talking a lot about how things are in-clan for a while now, and WoWs is just... weird compared to way back when. More of us are playing other games more often that WoWs, not sure if that's just because we need a break or if some of us are giving up on it. I know one thing for sure, when Cyberpunk 2077 hits in April I'll probably disappear for a while.

 

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Watched it. At ~4:00 he complains about something that doesn't even exist: "kill stealing." There is no such thing in this game. Low-health targets need to be removed from the map as quickly as possible and it doesn't matter who finishes them off.

Notice how he places highest among his team in the post-battle results leaderboard -- well done. That's the second-most impressive thing you can do in a blow-out match. It's second only to placing highest on the leaderboard for the losing team.

 

Edited by Ziggy_Sprague
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I think the blowout meta is a result of the CV rework. I had quit the game previously prior to the re-work. When I returned I noticed this new meta had arisen. I think for most people most games now include CVs which have encouraged people to group up into lemming trains. Because they are use to grouping up for CVs, they seem to still do it even when a CV is not around. What then happens is either the big group, feeling comfortable in their numbers, pushes to aggressively and ends up losing an early ship. The weak side guys get wiped out because they have no support and the result is a lemming train stuck at one cap surrounded by a team that has numbers.... blowout. 

 

 

Edited by Slumlord_Dasboot
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Just watched it. This issue has been there even before PR or CV rework, at least speaking for NA.

High tier "meta" is super passive, "be patient" [edited] that is drawn out hoping to win at the end by sheer perseverance and waiting for others over extend. I disagree that it is new, although might be even worse due to PR, it is always that way. Unless both sides are passive then it is not blowout as he describes it. Still if one side has a clue and can do a decent push it usually is a blowout.

Indeed as he says it is super boring and frustrating. Watched Flambass replay yesterday where enemy team was all in the back sitting broadside and he was citadeling constantly in Republique with its great range. Just passive dumbf....ks sitting and sniping, almost entire enemy team. He kept saying wth all game, didn't even have to play well or anything.

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Did not watch the video, but I agree blowout matches on either side are boring and frustrating. And many players do not seem to care if they win or lose, or understand how to win. And kill stealing does exist, I see players who specialize in it to get their kraken. Won't fire or expose themselves until one salvo will finish off a ship, let team members do all the work and take all the risk so they can get an easy kill. Then back dark until the next opportunity comes along. You can see it in the results, have 5 kills but below those with 2 or 3 in result screen. It's a game for them to see how little damage they can do and get a kraken. Some even brag about it. It's rare, but I do see it.

Or that DD or CL that follows behind your BB the entire game staying undetected, never spotting, caping only shooting or torping when enemy at very low HP.

You know your in trouble when your team is extremely slow to move from spawn, or several do a 180 at start or even a 90 to go from C to A and do nothing the entire trip. Meanwhile the enemy is in or near all the caps with island protection while yours is well below in open water. Or your t10 BB sits around 10k bow on from a cap for the first 10 minutes of the game not moving, seeing this a lot lately. I guess I'm an old fogey, I grew up in a time when winning mattered.

 

 

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1 minute ago, pikohan said:

Wow did he just notice?

Yes he did. At least he woke up because of something decent.

 

18 minutes ago, bob_ninja said:

Just watched it. This issue has been there even before PR or CV rework, at least speaking for NA.

High tier "meta" is super passive, "be patient" [edited] that is drawn out hoping to win at the end by sheer perseverance and waiting for others over extend. I disagree that it is new, although might be even worse due to PR, it is always that way. Unless both sides are passive then it is not blowout as he describes it. Still if one side has a clue and can do a decent push it usually is a blowout.

Indeed as he says it is super boring and frustrating. Watched Flambass replay yesterday where enemy team was all in the back sitting broadside and he was citadeling constantly in Republique with its great range. Just passive dumbf....ks sitting and sniping, almost entire enemy team. He kept saying wth all game, didn't even have to play well or anything.

It’s not being patient. Being patient for a bit and waiting for a mistake to happen and reacting to it accordingly is the current way to play. The issue is being too patient or clueless that’s causing these blowouts because when red or green aggressively push while the opposite team is sleeping the game away is what cause a blowout to happen. That or too many idiots on one team. It’s going to happen, Notser is sort of right to say that the Puerto Rico event made the situation even more worse, but I think the Smolensk and Colbert did more to encourage this sort of thinking, and everyone wants to complain when the whole team is sleeping and the one or two guys that want to do something get knocked off way too early.

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21 minutes ago, bob_ninja said:

Just watched it. This issue has been there even before PR or CV rework, at least speaking for NA.

High tier "meta" is super passive, "be patient" [edited] that is drawn out hoping to win at the end by sheer perseverance and waiting for others over extend. I disagree that it is new, although might be even worse due to PR, it is always that way. Unless both sides are passive then it is not blowout as he describes it. Still if one side has a clue and can do a decent push it usually is a blowout.

Indeed as he says it is super boring and frustrating. Watched Flambass replay yesterday where enemy team was all in the back sitting broadside and he was citadeling constantly in Republique with its great range. Just passive dumbf....ks sitting and sniping, almost entire enemy team. He kept saying wth all game, didn't even have to play well or anything.

Agree that this was occurring way before PR. It started a long time ago when players stopped being concerned about learning the game and just wanted to race up the tiers to get the bigger ships. Dumb player base = bad random play.

You could see this coming when these forums went from a great place to discuss the game and get information to the whine fest it continues to be today.

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Just now, 1SneakyDevil said:

Agree that this was occurring way before PR. It started a long time ago when players stopped being concerned about learning the game and just wanted to race up the tiers to get the bigger ships. Dumb player base = bad random play.

You could see this coming when these forums went from a great place to discuss the game and get information to the whine fest it continues to be today.

Where else do I seem to see whining?  Football, Twitter, Work, World?

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Playing my dds, I'm trying to live most of the time and if I get a cap more power to me.  Had a losing match in this "Meta" where I did a whole 400+ experience and that for some reason was the top for my team?  Last place guy almost tripled my exp total. not fun

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A lot of the objectives were better done in co-op, kills and base experience, or operations, non-base experience and captains experience. Base experience in co-op you ask and the reason is you can earn more per hour in co-op because the matches are so fast.

I just hope the next "big" event has more reasonable requirements.

The last I checked there were 83 people in the Hall of Fame.

I wonder how many people got the PR without using doubloons? If it is more than ten I will be surprised.

Edited by BrushWolf
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I think a lot of people are hitting the "this team sucks screw it" point early. Happens in every game. "oh, this team isn't going to win. Meh. I'll get some damage I guess." "oh this team isn't going to win, imma Yolo in and die whatever." "oh screw this matchmaking, I'm going to drag this out so the enemy doesn't get a quick win" "oh dammit it's not the mode/map/composition I want. Screw this round lawl". 

People get frustrated and they stop caring or start playing selfishly. Both lead to the same thing. 

 

 

Edited by MBRicochet

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The blowouts normally happen when:

1. You lose "eyes". Either your side's dd's get taken out in the first 5 mins or  they decide their own thing. Was supporting a fletcher against a shima with radar in a cap battle. Shima got driven out of the cap with about 1k HP left. The fletch could had just stayed in cover and gotten the cap. He decided that he wanted an easy kill. So he rushed out for an "easy" kill. Died in less than a minute. *sigh*   

2. Other ships gotten dev struck or focused on. In a match against Lord Zath. He mentioned on chat that 3 ships got dev struck in the first 6 minutes. Owie

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

Did not watch the video, but I agree blowout matches on either side are boring and frustrating. And many players do not seem to care if they win or lose, or understand how to win. And kill stealing does exist, I see players who specialize in it to get their kraken. Won't fire or expose themselves until one salvo will finish off a ship, let team members do all the work and take all the risk so they can get an easy kill. Then back dark until the next opportunity comes along. You can see it in the results, have 5 kills but below those with 2 or 3 in result screen. It's a game for them to see how little damage they can do and get a kraken. Some even brag about it. It's rare, but I do see it.

Or that DD or CL that follows behind your BB the entire game staying undetected, never spotting, caping only shooting or torping when enemy at very low HP.

You know your in trouble when your team is extremely slow to move from spawn, or several do a 180 at start or even a 90 to go from C to A and do nothing the entire trip. Meanwhile the enemy is in or near all the caps with island protection while yours is well below in open water. Or your t10 BB sits around 10k bow on from a cap for the first 10 minutes of the game not moving, seeing this a lot lately. I guess I'm an old fogey, I grew up in a time when winning mattered.

 

 

These players are called casuals.  They only play "to have fun".  They don't care about winning or losing.  They play to shoot stuff and sink ships.  That said, you can get some use out of such players by using the F3 key to point out ships that you'd like they to focus.  And because of their "shoot stuff and sink ships" mindset, they are usually pretty pre-disposed to shooting at and sinking enemies that get pointed out to them for focus fire.

I have to admit though that I've never seen any of these players you claim only care about getting kills.  I'm all for kill securing, getting enemy ships dead ASAP.  But I don't wait around looking for wounded ducks to finish off and then go back to doing nothing.  I've had good games where I do a lot of damage but get no kills.  And I've had good games where I do a more moderate amount of damage and get a bunch of kills.  And the thing is that I'm not playing any different.  It's just what the circumstances and the flow of the game brings my way.  I don't worry about it.  I just keep on plugging.

Also, I'm with you on ships that spawn behind the A cap but decide to cross the entire map to get to the C cap (or visa versa).  Those ships/players are wasting something like 2-3 minutes of the battle doing nothing just to cross the map.  Drives me nuts, because your team is effectively down a ship for that time.

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1 hour ago, Pulicat said:

If he's so tired of blowouts, he should educate the many average players that like him so they stop being so useless instead of giving them stupid information like dcp single fires.

^ this tbh

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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I have to admit though that I've never seen any of these players you claim only care about getting kills.  I'm all for kill securing, getting enemy ships dead ASAP.  But I don't wait around looking for wounded ducks to finish off and then go back to doing nothing.

 

Well there are plenty of them around. Lost count of 100K+ dmg wins with 1-2 kills. And I do place priority on shooting DDs when I see them, so not just farming BBs. I was actually surprised last time I got a Kraken. It is usually in lower tier V and VI where I can do it. Higher tiers never as there is always some DD or cruiser looking for "kill secure" for himself of course.

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2 hours ago, shadowsrmine said:

All too few players are willing to make an effort to win  

 

This has been going on for a very long time and has nothing to do with 8.11.

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the steam rolls are an exact result of wargamings really bad game decisions, good players leaving the game means normally there is only 1 good player or div per side which heavily effects the outcome of a game in 1 way.

cv rework, smol are a few really dumb inclusions into the game in which just frustrates competent players, why play the game when skill level doesnt equate to determining how the outcome of a match occurs.

cv and smol require minimal skill levels and can have free domination over the best players without any form of punishment, plane losses mean nothing and smol only gets overpenned with the occasional citadel if he tries to angle.

Notser has proven time and time again how little game knowledge he really has so dont go adhering to every word that comes from his mouth.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Also, I'm with you on ships that spawn behind the A cap but decide to cross the entire map to get to the C cap (or visa versa).  Those ships/players are wasting something like 2-3 minutes of the battle doing nothing just to cross the map.  Drives me nuts, because your team is effectively down a ship for that time.

You have the "I want to be safe" mentality as well as "I want pew pew"  at the same time. The want to be able to shoot w/o anyone shooting back at them. that also leads to the "lemming train" occurrence. How many times had you ships spawning at C go to A and vice versa. And stall? Again the "I want to be safe" mentality. 

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