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LittleWhiteMouse

Premium Ship Review #135 - Gorizia

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Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:
Don't get me wrong, I like lewding lolibotes as much as the next destroyer-hunter, but Gorizia is not my white van of choice.

D0E4cv0.png

2 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Harambe-1024x576.jpg
Here we can see a file photo of a Gorizia (in gorgeous silverback camo) attempting to accost a Lolibote.  Later, the Italian cruiser was tragically shot by the destroyer's team mates.

2IaaSEQ.gif

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Nice review!  I like the new "Verdict" style.

I have to ask the question.  Do you think the reception of the Gorizia itself is going to be overshadowed by the association with the PR?

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3 minutes ago, Lochnivar said:

Nice review!  I like the new "Verdict" style.

I have to ask the question.  Do you think the reception of the Gorizia itself is going to be overshadowed by the association with the PR?

Yeah, at least on the short term.  She's arguably the best thing to come out of this promotion (which isn't saying much).  Had it just been Gorizia, I think we would have all had a much happier time with things.

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And one more thing: it's a tier 7 ship. You will be seeing a ton of tier 9 coal ships that will murder you and tons of tier 8 CVs that will make your life miserable. That's my biggest argument against buying this ship. Sure, I don't mind getting it for free but it's going to be a port queen.

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25 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Would I Recommend?

And then Mouse was forced to comment on the whole Puerto Rico thing

Oh god, where do I even begin?  Look, it's cool that we have a chance for unlocking Gorizia for free.  The ship-building port thing looks amazing and my compliments to the art team at Wargaming for putting that together.  I hope to see the visuals from the event used again.  The mechanics suck, though, and not just from the horrible missions and terrible grind.  The convoluted, over-complicated math needed to predict completion times is just insane.  It's obtuse only for the sake of preying upon players and that needs to go.  If you want my money, Wargaming, have the decency to ask up front.  Don't hide it in a veritable swamp of tangled algebra.  Don't insult me like this.

That Puerto Rico, too, was promised as being free was downright scummy.  I think what bothers me the most (and admittedly, only upon reflection) was that this deception didn't make me mad.  I accepted it as a matter of course, having had previous experience with many of Wargaming's grinds beforehand.  I knew already there was no way they wasn't going to be some horrible catch and I was honestly surprised that others didn't see it too.

That's when I realized that I have been conditioned to accept this behaviour.  That's a chilling realization to know that I was willing to swallow lines like:

  • Of course it was going to be a Hellish grind, they're giving away at tier 10 ship!
  • Of course only a small percentage of the players are going to be able to complete it!  That's what makes it so desirable!  This is what provides players with a sense of pride and accomplishment!
  • Don't worry, if you can't finish the grind, you can just spend money so no one is really missing out!
  • We're sorry if we didn't make the costs clear beforehand!

It makes my skin crawl that I've become so blasé to this kind of nonsense.  Wargaming pulled an Electronic Arts move and my first instinct was to shrug my shoulders because I was used to this kind of bull-paddies from the gaming industry.  Ugh, talk about a wake up call.  I'm so bloody mad at myself for being complacent over this.

The worst of it, for me, is that Wargaming is deliberately targeting people like me for this grind.  Were I not a Community Contributor, I'd be right in their cross-hairs with a past history of binge-playing and spending money to accelerate completion of events like this.  With my health issues over the last year, a grind like this could do me lasting harm.  You are going to physically hurt yourself if you try and unlock Puerto Rico without spending money (or even only spending a small amount).  It is NOT healthy for a person to be forced to play that much over a prolonged period of time.  Crunch-culture in the industry has no business spilling over onto gamers themselves.  That they go on to try and shame us for calling them out on how dangerous this is so insulting.  People get sick and die playing this much and Wargaming is actively targeting the vulnerable.

Yeah, I'm pissed.  I'm only sorry it took me so long to catch up.  Don't buy Gorizia to participate in this nonsense event.  Yes, it makes it easier.  No, this event doesn't deserve your time, money or energy.

If you want Gorizia for her own sake, go nuts.  I hope I've provided you with enough information to make that call.  I still recommend watching some streams / videos of other content creators to get a bigger picture and other people's opinions.  In my eyes, she's only ever going to be "okay" in most game modes and kinda limited in Co-op with bots going bow-in all the time and her lack of torpedoes.  She's a pass for me.

Good summary of the situation on PR and the Dockyard... and yes, it has been bothering me to see that so many players are so inured to this sort of behavior by gaming companies in general and WG in particular.  

The part I bolded might be a great insight into this whole mess.

The corporate culture inside the gaming industry is absolutely infested with the expectation of chronic overtime, ridiculous deadlines, and crunch goals.  Maybe what we're seeing here in WG's attitude toward the players isn't entirely malice or arrogance -- maybe it's that to some degree they've internalized those toxic expectations and no longer grasp that the rest of the world doesn't live in that stew. 

As for the Gorizia itself, review confirms that it's not worth $35 for a mediocre ship that's only tempting as a way to speed an asinine grind, and would hardly be used afterwards. 

 

 

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Great review as always Mouse

I can't believe that WGing is tooting this thing as an Anti-DD Cruiser....She has some of the tools needed, but is missing a few "must have" tools.

For me, it's the long reload of the 203's.....it's just too long to make a good DD hunter....Yes SAP can kill a DD pretty quick, if you hit it(and RNGesus lets you...lol)

Then add the lack of Concealment range, and that pretty much kills any idea of hunting DD's with it.

Now as an Anti-CL/CA ship, she great.

I know others will disagree, but I'd rather hunt DD's in a CL (MonteCooCoo works great for that)

 

One question for Mouse....do you test for the minimum turning circle, or do just use WGing's number. I'm guessing that the turning circle is at full speed.

Thanks

 

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So far I have discovered that Gorizia is good for exactly one thing - farming citadel hits on other cruisers in co-op. That's it. Unfortunately, the only real in-game tasks that require you to farm citadel hits will usually allow you to do the same task by farming fire, flood, and torpedo hits instead, and almost all of the other 8" cruisers can do the same. So Gorizia ends up being a slate-blue, chrome-plated football bat.

Although I will allow that Gorizia (and all the Italian CAs in my experience) have really enjoyable gun handling that is only ruined by their reload speed, or lack thereof. They're superbly accurate and have comfortable ballistics.

The damage saturation thing is honestly my biggest complaint about them. When another ship is saturated and angling, it's nearly impossible to finish her off. In that regard, the Italian cruisers are pretty good at helping your teammates secure kills.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn

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Dang, a bit salty today Mouse? Not that I can blame you, but usually the reviews are a bit more impersonal.

 

Good job as always though, in my limited experience with the Italians the long reload seems to really be the killer. People don't play cruisers for the long reload, that's what BBs are for. And a DD hunter?:Smile_teethhappy: Yeah, cause waiting 15 sec when the first salvo misses is going to work real well for that...

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Nice review Miss Mouse. It's actually one of the worst ships I have ever used in co op. It's probably better in Randoms though.

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IZs3eeL.gif

 

 

Example #11 of how WG's implementation of RM Cruisers has just been godawful...

upbote for the review tho;

 

WdkU3fV.gif

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I think you might have convinced a bunch of us not to bother grinding the Holiday directives and instead just play as if it never happened. If I end up winning a Gorizia in the process so be it. I'll just add it to my collection of useless premium ships I've won in the past. No harm done. 

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24 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

IZs3eeL.gif

 

 

Example #11 of how WG's implementation of RM Cruisers has just been godawful...

 

It didn't have to be like this.

Can you imagine what these ITA Tier VII+ Cruisers can be like with regular HE + AP shell selection, coupled with the improved shell flight characteristics they get starting at Tier VII?

 

The only real saving grace left is how WG handles ITA Battleships.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The horror...

Its a much better armor scheme than New Orleans, which is still missing the 203mm turret faces and barbetts. The 16mm bow/stern plating is generic; only the York gets better. 

Goriza's armor scheme almost looks exceptional; that 150mm belt and citadel deck sure is.

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As always a true pleasure to read. Thank you so much!

 

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I have "not hated" my time with the Gorizia - which I purchased solely to ease the ridiculous "grindiness" of the tier 10 PR.  The guns are nice, and if you can evade death until the second half of a tier 7/8 battle, you can be a terror.  As LWM stated though, it's a very passive cruiser in play style until the end game comes.  I would rank  it in the bottom third of tier 7 cruisers - which probably has some of the best tech tree and premium cruisers for it's tier in the game.  Belfast, Fiji, Flint, Atlanta, Boise/Nuevo de Julio, Schorrs, Lazo, even Myoko and her clones are far easier to play well in.  She sits with Yorck, Pensacola, and Zara as kind of meh in ability to effect the battle much.

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Ok, hard pass on this. A BB-sort of play but with severe limitations? That's not fun. It's suicide.

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It makes my skin crawl that I've become so blasé to this kind of nonsense.  Wargaming pulled an Electronic Arts move and my first instinct was to shrug my shoulders because I was used to this kind of bull-paddies from the gaming industry.  Ugh, talk about a wake up call.  I'm so bloody mad at myself for being complacent over this. 

I pretty much stopped playing EA games about 14 years ago because of the NFL licensing fiasco (whenever EA/NFL made the NFL license exclusive.)  (The one exception was Mass Effect 3.)  

It's something most people don't think about - once a company gets above a certain size as a game publisher, they're always going to push the monetization limits.  There's no large clean company in computer games -- there are only the companies we give a pass on because we like their products.   (Hell, I would argue this is true for pretty much every company out there -- above certain size, nobody runs a clean company, because, if you run a clean company, you never get above a certain size.)

In other words, we all deal with the devil - the question is just what we're willing to overlook.  That's why, even though I think the grind is stupid, I'm not that angry about it.   I've made my plan, and if I can't stick with it, I'm prepared to walk away.

And because we all make our own deals, even though people are all screaming bloody murder about it, WG isn't going to change - most people are coming back to play anyway.   The high profile CCs, they're still streaming on Twitch and posting You Tube videos, still marketing WG even though most of them say they're extremely angry at WG.    I've been looking at the server numbers, and they seem right around where they usually are. 

Until there's a real massive change across the player base, until people are willing to actually walk away as opposed to complain and then go back to playing the game as if nothing happened, nothing changes.

As mentioned, I stopped buying EA games - and I don't feel like I've missed a thing because there are a lot of other video games out there.  Plus a wife and a family tend to take up a lot of time. :)  But Madden still sells millions of copies -- and the NFL license is still exclusive.

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15 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It didn't have to be like this.

Can you imagine what these ITA Tier VII+ Cruisers can be like with regular HE + AP shell selection, coupled with the improved shell flight characteristics they get starting at Tier VII?

 

The only real saving grace left is how WG handles ITA Battleships.

Yup... I'll be repeating myself ad nauseam, but;

Literally every ship at tier VII+ could be shifted up one tier, and, if balanced like a normal line, would have probably worked out much better.

 

There are good elements to the current flavor, namely the strong AP performance, hull characteristics, high speed, and excellent handling. The godawful reload to balance the poorly thought out SAP rounds andf the lack of HE is what really screws them.

Italian HE was, as indicated by the light cruisers, never going to be a particularly large threat when it came producing a terrifying HE-spam line - not as anemic as the CL HE, but still below average - probably 2700/13% versus the standard 2800/14%. HE spam was never going to be their thing, but something they could do if needed as all cruisers must. Their bread and butter really would have been the excellent AP - I'd probably give the 203/53 4900 damage, and the 203/55 5000 damage, with a higher MV closer to 950-960 m/s - and I'd probably give it better autobounce angles, similar to the USN's. I'd combined that with the good detection but poor range of literally every prior Italian premium. That, combined with a normal reload (consider that Venezia has the same shell output at Charles Martel...), would have produced a perfectly workable line with a unique flavor.

I don't expect much from RM DDs - they're just not competitive designs, especially in a world of Russian and French DDs and all their insane buffs (especially the latter) cramping whatever style they may ahve otherwise had, but the BBs have a good shot of being very good ships. But it's a shame the cruisers, which had fantastic potentially, got bent over and screwed by WG so badly.

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Had good results with her in terms of getting directive 2 done, took 7 random battles to finish 3 missions.  5 games in t7-9, 1 t7, 1 t5-7, all without CV.  Need to do the same again in directive 3.

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Thanks for the review, LWM ... I've been looking forward to this one, even though I'm no longer focused on the event or either of the two ships.

As always, excellent work ... and commentary.  +1

1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

...

Good job as always though, in my limited experience with the Italians the long reload seems to really be the killer. People don't play cruisers for the long reload ...

This has been my experience as well ... I finally ground out Amalfi and was thinking THIS is where it's supposed to get better.  But even though I'm adjusting and learning their "style", Amalfi is still plagued by the slow  reload ... and it just killed any desire to play them much.  It seems as though a lot of ships/lines that could be fun have had "fun" adjusted out to fit into a spreadsheet ...  there was a reason I used to hate MBA types.

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29 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Yup... I'll be repeating myself ad nauseam, but;

Literally every ship at tier VII+ could be shifted up one tier, and, if balanced like a normal line, would have probably worked out much better.

 

There are good elements to the current flavor, namely the strong AP performance, hull characteristics, high speed, and excellent handling. The godawful reload to balance the poorly thought out SAP rounds andf the lack of HE is what really screws them.

Italian HE was, as indicated by the light cruisers, never going to be a particularly large threat when it came producing a terrifying HE-spam line - not as anemic as the CL HE, but still below average - probably 2700/13% versus the standard 2800/14%. HE spam was never going to be their thing, but something they could do if needed as all cruisers must. Their bread and butter really would have been the excellent AP - I'd probably give the 203/53 4900 damage, and the 203/55 5000 damage, with a higher MV closer to 950-960 m/s - and I'd probably give it better autobounce angles, similar to the USN's. I'd combined that with the good detection but poor range of literally every prior Italian premium. That, combined with a normal reload (consider that Venezia has the same shell output at Charles Martel...), would have produced a perfectly workable line with a unique flavor.

I don't expect much from RM DDs - they're just not competitive designs, especially in a world of Russian and French DDs and all their insane buffs (especially the latter) cramping whatever style they may ahve otherwise had, but the BBs have a good shot of being very good ships. But it's a shame the cruisers, which had fantastic potentially, got bent over and screwed by WG so badly.

What is said times x1000. Super Washingtons at IX/X and Venezia should have been a 10" super cruiser. Sadly the maritime republics have now had their names attached to forgettable ships instead of some good premiums as I had feared. The fact that the AP has a bit less alpha than what it should is a bit odd.

Also not giving Gorizia railgun speed with the A Hull seems like a missed opportunity. ~950 for AP and ~930 for anything but SAP irrc. :Smile-_tongue:

In regards to RM DDs at this point there is nothing to block the 60s era 135/53 aa rifles with the Swedish line. I mean they gimmicked 120mm mounts and additional torpedos on a Spica to make it a tier III destroyer. :Smile_hiding:

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It isnt pola so I'm going to have to give the ship a -100/10

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