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henrychenhenry

Does Salem actually need a buff?

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With Update 0.8.11:

image.thumb.png.53f3b8b8664388b5dd7fed875f7e3964.png

Does Salem need a buff? Has Salem been under-performing?

Note: I am not anti-Salem at all, have one and regularly play it. Just want to know the motivation behind this as I would not have expected it.

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The range of her radar is so suicidally short in tier X games that many Salem players feel that it's completely inferior to her hydro option and dismiss it out of hand. I like that they buffed it, and I like that they didn't do so by increasing its range. Now it gives you a better spotting window if you're danger close, and brings more parity between her radar and hydro options.

EDIT: Also, she's dead last in win rate and KDR among tier X cruisers according to WoWs Numbers, so yes, she seems to need some help.

Edited by SkaerKrow

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I don't see a problem with it. It probably doesn't need it but extra duration isn't going to break it and it's welcome.

Now if they increased the radar range it would be a middle finger to DM players. Then again you lack the legendary upgrade which to a lot of players(myself included) is a big blow. To be honest even then if it had the TX radar I wouldn't totally be against it but I completely understand why people wouldn't want that.

Personally I avoided the Salem because that's a lot of coal to drop for a sidegrade to a ship I already have. But I guess it isn't really for me by that point.

 

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18 minutes ago, leablobotamist said:

Then again you lack the legendary upgrade which to a lot of players(myself included) is a big blow. 

Personally I avoided the Salem because that's a lot of coal to drop for a sidegrade to a ship I already have. But I guess it isn't really for me by that point.

What is DMs upgrade? For some reason I’m thinking it was an engine upgrade...

...aaaand, so what? (If I didn’t confuse it with another ship.)

I got Salem because I’ve been to see the actual ship in Quincy, MA.

10 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

Salem is still trash

Trash or not, it’s the only ship I’ve ever come close to breaking 200k damage in. (199k on Shards.)

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She is okayish but a small buff like this more than welcome.

However, the buff I really want is to make her second turret backfiring angle the same as Des Moines. She is worse at kiting than Des Moines due to this poor backward firing angle, which I don't see a reason for.

Edited by Exciton8964

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34 minutes ago, leablobotamist said:

I don't see a problem with it. It probably doesn't need it but extra duration isn't going to break it and it's welcome.

Now if they increased the radar range it would be a middle finger to DM players. Then again you lack the legendary upgrade which to a lot of players(myself included) is a big blow. To be honest even then if it had the TX radar I wouldn't totally be against it but I completely understand why people wouldn't want that.

Personally I avoided the Salem because that's a lot of coal to drop for a sidegrade to a ship I already have. But I guess it isn't really for me by that point.

 

Salem s really good in at being a Des Moines Class ship to the point it can beat out a Des Moines with relative ease in a 1 on 1 fight. Beating a large Cruiser like Stalingrad or Yoshino 1 on 1 can be a little trickier as the Salem will need to either burn them down, or get AP shells into their side armor. And those other CAs can outrange Salem if needed. So it’s not really a case of Salem being bad, just more of a case of ever increasing competition from tier IX and X CAs. The fact Salem has bow armor that can stop 15” shells is certainly respectable and allows her and her sister Des Moines to still remain serviceable.

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15 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

....

 

Don't get it twisted, I love the DM and I feel like I'd love the Salem. I don't even think it's a bad ship. I just want a little bit more for dumping that much coal on a DM with a gimped radar and mutant heal.

The slight buff duration is fine, it made me almost consider getting it if I weren't saving for the inevitable TX DD they'll probably maybe might surely undoubtedly will release for coal some day I mean year I mean decade(any day now!).

All I meant is giving it the TX radar probably wouldn't be broken. The radar to me is more of a team benefit and knocking off 1.5km hurts the team as much as the ship. It would make the DM irrelevant but it's also a coal ship.

If I had to hazard a guess the only reason the Salem is under performing stat wise is because a lot of people bought it without ever playing a USN cruiser. They end up getting blapped because they try to play it like a hindi or zao.

What would be really broken is a Buffalo with DM rate of fire. If you really wanna talk about over shadowing the DM. Or even funnier is giving the Salem a reload booster instead of DFAA. Or even a speed boost would be pretty trolly late game where you aren't limited to sitting behind an island. I mean crap, the Georgia has one. Imagine Salem catching up to a DD while radaring it.
 

 

 

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the short range radar is just a tease on Salem, personally i would rather have 10km and 15~20s instead of 9km and 40s, not going to make any difference even if they buffed it to 60s....the range sucks bad.

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It's a fair buff, the Salem plays differently than the Des Moines, and it's more comfortable for average and below players due to the monster heal.  Des Moines has more utility for competitive players and is a staple of CB.  Buffing the Radar out helps it's utility against incoming DD's - it's fair.

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Salem I thought was fine as is.  I thought it made a good open water trainer run and gun trainer for DMs, because of the Super Heal gives you a bit more to work with.  Plus her baked in reduced Service Costs makes her nice too.  And she will likely get another buff when the IFHE rework comes out, she will get a minor Armor Buff.

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If she didn't need help, we wouldn't have given her help ;)

Fem, 

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7 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

 

EDIT: Also, she's dead last in win rate and KDR among tier X cruisers according to WoWs Numbers, so yes, she seems to need some help.

How many got the ship that are potatoes though. Free coal ship so stats probably got trashed. 

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5 hours ago, leablobotamist said:

 

Don't get it twisted, I love the DM and I feel like I'd love the Salem. I don't even think it's a bad ship. I just want a little bit more for dumping that much coal on a DM with a gimped radar and mutant heal.

The slight buff duration is fine, it made me almost consider getting it if I weren't saving for the inevitable TX DD they'll probably maybe might surely undoubtedly will release for coal some day I mean year I mean decade(any day now!).

All I meant is giving it the TX radar probably wouldn't be broken. The radar to me is more of a team benefit and knocking off 1.5km hurts the team as much as the ship. It would make the DM irrelevant but it's also a coal ship.

If I had to hazard a guess the only reason the Salem is under performing stat wise is because a lot of people bought it without ever playing a USN cruiser. They end up getting blapped because they try to play it like a hindi or zao.

What would be really broken is a Buffalo with DM rate of fire. If you really wanna talk about over shadowing the DM. Or even funnier is giving the Salem a reload booster instead of DFAA. Or even a speed boost would be pretty trolly late game where you aren't limited to sitting behind an island. I mean crap, the Georgia has one. Imagine Salem catching up to a DD while radaring it.
 

 

 

The Salem has radar and hydro in the same slot, with Def AA in another slot. I prefer taking hydro in her due to the crappy radar. Then you also have the fact that Salem has a DD dam con reload, too. She's just an overall great ship, if you ask me. The one real downside other than radar is the AA being weaker, but this is made up for by being forced to take def AA, where as most ships don't tend to take it anymore.

Not many CVs like attacking into a ship they know has def AA for a fact, especially not an AAA ship.

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In any ranking list, some ship is going to be last. You have to look at how tight/spread out the ships are. In this case, Salem was dead last and substantially worse than the competition.

A full 10 pts lower WR than the (decidedly OP Stalingrad). Almost 2 full pts lower than the next higher ship, Yoshino.

Not the worst avg damage, but pretty much a dead heat for the bottom. Stalingrad get 50% more damage. Yoshino gets 26% more

The worst kills per death (1.21) with it nearest competitor being its "sister" DM. Stalingrad gets 1.98, Yoshino gets 1.72.

 

Salem definitely needed a buff.Remains to be seen if this is enough.

Edited by Sabot_100

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38 minutes ago, Arlensauce93 said:

How many got the ship that are potatoes though. Free coal ship so stats probably got trashed. 

She’s no more free than any tech tree ship. 

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If your not gonna increase the range of the radar then more duration want really help.

You want to make it different then give it a better rudder shift and or better acceleration without giving up concealment and allow it to be played better in the open water.

Its mostly useless around the caps in my opinion trying to be played like a DM.

Give it the ability to survive in the open water slightly better and leave the rest up to the player at the controls.

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

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7 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Salem is still my fav Coop ship. Can make a small profit in a TX in Coop, not all can do that.

Ship doesn't have to be all that good to do well in CoOp. So having a T10 that can turn a profit is great. Salem can turn a profit in Randoms too, it just won't be doing as well in other areas as any other cruiser you might bring (for most people).

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12 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

She’s no more free than any tech tree ship. 

True, with exception for anyone that's never played a high tier game and got the salem . Many players out there that cant play tx . Let alone get a tx boat for free instead of playing the des moine first

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8 hours ago, henrychenhenry said:

Does Salem need a buff? Has Salem been under-performing?

Salem is my waifu and I love her, but to answer your questions, yes and yes. 

I think all USN 5" secondaries should be buffed, but that's a separate issue.  I'd buff her AA suite some.  That won't affect her play directly, but would be nice overall.

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3 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Ship doesn't have to be all that good to do well in CoOp. So having a T10 that can turn a profit is great. Salem can turn a profit in Randoms too, it just won't be doing as well in other areas as any other cruiser you might bring (for most people).

In the right hands, Salem can be lethal in Random. I'm just a horrible cruiser Captain. I got the Smolensk with coal. I know it can be a ridiculous DPM machine. Just like the the Worcester and Mino. Just not in my hands.

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