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wolfman757

Hiding

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I mean like behind islands and stuff, is this the norm? am I actually playing a game by myself? 

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Just asking because so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at because I tend to do what the navies of the world do, I look for the enemy and try to sink them, kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

 

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23 minutes ago, KHyena said:

> yes

> never was an """"team"""" game [maybe in cb with coordinated teams]

This, the only place you see true team play is in clan battles

 

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It's the norm these days. Start of a match and watch them all scurry for the nearest island, just like cockroaches when the light goes on. Sad to see.

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Let's not get too generic here.  I'd say that at low tiers, there's very little "hiding".  People just scream around at flank speed, shooting at things, and being shot.  At the highest tiers, yes, people use islands for cover.  It's not so much that they're "hiding" as because at T10 the weapons have become so powerful, and so accurate, that if you let yourself be seen, you're gonna get punished.  Personally, I'm not crazy about that, which is why I don't play much T9/10.  No, sitting behind islands ain't historically accurate, but it's how the game works at high tiers.

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1 hour ago, wolfman757 said:

At what level does this team game become a team game?

You say that while the rest of your team is doing one thing and you're going off and dying alone.

1 hour ago, wolfman757 said:

kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone

Start by learning to count, then we'll see if we can do something about your "teamwork."

Edited by grumpymunky
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1 hour ago, wolfman757 said:

so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at

If you're the only one getting shot at then you're in the wrong position.

This game is a balance between aggressive positioning to influence the battle line and management of damage taken.  If you take too much damage then you are getting the balance wrong.  Just because you really want to push up hard, does not mean this is the correct play. 

You also need to play around your team.  Do not expect them to do what you want them to do - you need to work with what they are doing, not with what you think they should be doing.  There is no point in going off alone because you think it would be the correct play for the team to push that area only to get yourself killed.  You can encourage your team to join you through aggressive positioning, but if you push up too hard so that you're highly vulnerable absolutely no one will join you.

It's a fine balance, and the primary skill in the game.  More important than even being able to aim your guns, is the ability to position your ship to have as much battle influence as possible while surviving to the end game.  It's not easy, and only comes with a combination of experience, and constant assessment of your own mistakes, and the lessons you can learn from each battle.

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1 hour ago, KHyena said:

> yes

> never was an """"team"""" game [maybe in cb with coordinated teams]

I believe that

57 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This, the only place you see true team play is in clan battles

 

so I have to join a gang to be in a safe place with people that have my back?

 no thanks , did that in 80 didn't work out too good then

 

30 minutes ago, hexeris said:

It's the norm these days. Start of a match and watch them all scurry for the nearest island, just like cockroaches when the light goes on. Sad to see.

Figures

20 minutes ago, Midshipman_Hornblower said:

Let's not get too generic here.  I'd say that at low tiers, there's very little "hiding".  People just scream around at flank speed, shooting at things, and being shot.  At the highest tiers, yes, people use islands for cover.  It's not so much that they're "hiding" as because at T10 the weapons have become so powerful, and so accurate, that if you let yourself be seen, you're gonna get punished.  Personally, I'm not crazy about that, which is why I don't play much T9/10.  No, sitting behind islands ain't historically accurate, but it's how the game works at high tiers.

the only ones running around at flank speed do more damage to the side they are on than the enemy

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33 minutes ago, Midshipman_Hornblower said:

Let's not get too generic here.  I'd say that at low tiers, there's very little "hiding".  People just scream around at flank speed, shooting at things, and being shot.  At the highest tiers, yes, people use islands for cover.  It's not so much that they're "hiding" as because at T10 the weapons have become so powerful, and so accurate, that if you let yourself be seen, you're gonna get punished.  Personally, I'm not crazy about that, which is why I don't play much T9/10.  No, sitting behind islands ain't historically accurate, but it's how the game works at high tiers.

The Island humping bow tanking meta didn't start until some time after launch. It was a game of maneuver and while people used islands it wasn't to sit behind them and fire but to break line of site.

An iChase video of an older and better version of Islands of Ice.

 

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1 hour ago, wolfman757 said:

I mean like behind islands and stuff, is this the norm? am I actually playing a game by myself? 

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Just asking because so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at because I tend to do what the navies of the world do, I look for the enemy and try to sink them, kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

 

With 102 battles, you haven't seen anything yet....

Just wait for those Des Moines and Woosters.....

The battleships that hit s at the start.....

 

 

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Unfortunately, when you have people in games that can hit your citadel from seemingly any angle, ships that can delete you without you having really any defense.....this is what you are going to get.  At some point, this game will either need to embrace its "arcade-style" gameplay (have shields or respawns, stuff like that), or go to more simulation (reduce the accuracy by a lot, fix radar, increase reload times, etc).  Not sure they could stay afloat with either of those types of games though so, here we are.

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37 minutes ago, wolfman757 said:

so I have to join a gang to be in a safe place with people that have my back?

Clans aren't always about someone 'having' your back.  The Lone Wolf clans are very much that, lone wolf.  You only join them for the economic and experience benefits you get with being in a clan.  XP boosts, discounts on ships, extra coal and steel all without having to talk to anyone or change the way you play.

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2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

I mean like behind islands and stuff, is this the norm? am I actually playing a game by myself? 

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Just asking because so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at because I tend to do what the navies of the world do, I look for the enemy and try to sink them, kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

 

The higher the tier you go the more the hide will happen.

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2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

I mean like behind islands and stuff, is this the norm? am I actually playing a game by myself? 

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Just asking because so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at because I tend to do what the navies of the world do, I look for the enemy and try to sink them, kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

 

There’s truth to the old adage that there is safety in numbers. Don’t be the lone guy pushing up, you’ll get focused like the only girl on a nude beach.

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2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

is this the norm?

Yes, and the higher the tier, the worse it gets.

2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

am I actually playing a game by myself? 

You damn sure are if you're out in the open!

2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Clan battles, and the day WG lets us have divisions of 12 ships.

2 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

It is 12 ships, this is NOT Iron Ocean, and instead of moaning about what should be you need to pull up your Big Boy pants, pay attention, and learn to survive like everyone else does. If someone you see is successful, learn and copy what they do. If something is getting you sunk, don't do it anymore.

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3 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

I mean like behind islands and stuff, is this the norm? am I actually playing a game by myself? 

Its the norm for ships with lazy balistics like usn cruisers and RN Destroyers. Its a manipulation of a game mechanism that allows them to engage the enemy with less possibility of being deleted by enemy ships with better balistics; like Zao/Kremlin.

3 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

At what level does this team game become a team game?

Every battle when your on the winning side.

3 hours ago, wolfman757 said:

Just asking because so far tonight every battle I have been in I'm the only one that get shot at because I tend to do what the navies of the world do, I look for the enemy and try to sink them, kinda hard to do against 15 ships alone, even in Iron Ocean they all go into the fight

 

You can do this in battleships but not cruisers. Accuracy, damage models and ranges are too skewed to actually try and reenact naval battles in a historic fashion. And even when something did happen 1vs15 in the real world, it tended to end rather quickly: Jutland.

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1 hour ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Unfortunately, when you have people in games that can hit your citadel from seemingly any angle, ships that can delete you without you having really any defense.....this is what you are going to get.  At some point, this game will either need to embrace its "arcade-style" gameplay (have shields or respawns, stuff like that), or go to more simulation (reduce the accuracy by a lot, fix radar, increase reload times, etc).  Not sure they could stay afloat with either of those types of games though so, here we are.

The really need to turn the bow tanking meta on its head. A buff to damage taken through the bow along with a debuff to damage taken through the side would probably do the job of pushing people to be on the move as the game was played early in its life before the minmaxers figured out it was more effective.

The island hugging I believe is actually harder to fix. While requiring line of sight, no land you can't see over and no smoke, would be the preferred method that would require drastic changes to the game a large increase to dispersion when firing without from behind an island and in or behind smoke would be a viable way to make island hugging/smoke firing less viable.

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