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YouSatInGum

Mercy rule in Coop sucks!

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Quite frustrating to have game ended way early while working on a Lion.... cost me a naval battle star.

Edited by YouSatInGum
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This is literally a daily complaint from many, you're not alone my friend.

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I suspect they will eventually address this problem. Not sure it's high priority but they have to be aware. As SpudZero says, it gets reported constantly and it happens to all of us. It's great that some directives and naval battles can be worked on in co-op but yes, the sudden early end to the battles can be quite frustrating. 

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17 minutes ago, Capn_Nugget said:

I suspect they will eventually address this problem. Not sure it's high priority but they have to be aware.

Doubt WG cares much.

Price of the ‘ease’ with which Co-op can be used for some things.

As has been said before; if you don’t want the mercy rule to kick in, the bots need to be allowed to cap, or Greens need to die.

24 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Quite frustrating to have game ended way early while working on a Lion.... cost me a naval battle star.

Playing a KGV?

If you’re trying for something other than the first tier star, you really need to play Randoms to avoid things like that.

I say that even as someone who has (just barely,) played over half my games in Co-op.

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40 minutes ago, Capn_Nugget said:

I suspect they will eventually address this problem. Not sure it's high priority but they have to be aware. As SpudZero says, it gets reported constantly and it happens to all of us. It's great that some directives and naval battles can be worked on in co-op but yes, the sudden early end to the battles can be quite frustrating. 

WG has stated as much recently.  It will be nice when they finally do get rid of it.

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As said above, many of us have been writing the corporation complaining about this. !!!   You need to contact the Texas office and voice your complaint there in a PM to that staff.... 

shot-19_10_10_16_05.00-0612.thumb.jpg.fd56f78ee6400c780c42a61a8ace1a5c.jpg

This is a daily, game-end screen shot for those of us that are COOP mains.   This is 30K of real, in-game value I was not allowed to achieve.  Multiply this by the player base and you can see that this is a "revenue tool" this corporation uses to increase play volume.........or, as many businesses call it, "throughput"....  Throughput = Revenue expectations....  Increase the number of games by limiting player value, which forces you to play more games, and that, infers more sales !!!  To buy "stuff" to shorten the grinds: new OP ships, new gimmicks..........   A lot of games use this concept......and some, realized that customer satisfaction and quality is far more profitable but;..............is a lot harder to do !  And that, is why this corporation "might" address it........sometime next century.    There are several exploits that can extend the game but, non COOP mains simply want as many games as they can to finish grinds for events...... 

Edited by Asym_KS
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22 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Doubt WG cares much.

Price of the ‘ease’ with which Co-op can be used for some things.

As has been said before; if you don’t want the mercy rule to kick in, the bots need to be allowed to cap, or Greens need to die.

Playing a KGV?

If you’re trying for something other than the first tier star, you really need to play Randoms to avoid things like that.

I say that even as someone who has (just barely,) played over half my games in Co-op.

I imagine they don't care about coop, but maybe they do care slighly more about feedback.... hence we need to keep this issue up.

 

This week's naval is based on damage, so was playing Salem to farm coop for damage... usually 100k isn't too hard.

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In the months since I started playing, I've seen this mentioned a lot, and every time, the Random mains raise a stink because they want co-op to be a place where they can get a 5-minute win for some mission, etc.  The same toxicity that runs us away from Random in the first place spills over to co-op.  Frustrating.

You can usually tell a non-co-op main by the way they refer to the mode and the people who prefer to play it - their posts are typically condescending to put it in accurate terms without name calling.  And they will always say they are a co-op player because they have X,XXX or XX,XXX battles in co-op - but they did those to snatch a quick win, punch their ticket, and go back to randoms (typically).  They don't want to lose their "fast" shortcut to rewards.

The random mains who come here and treat the people who frequent co-op and this sub-forum with respect, those I in turn respect and admire.  I don't advocate or oppose any changes in Random battle-specific details, I only ask for the same courtesy.  Here endeth the rant.

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The one issue I see is in the last like hundred co-op games only 2 ended in the mercy rule. 

This whole mercy rule stuff is simply a very small number of players making a ruckus about nothing.  I even have been asking in game during the match what people think and many just laugh it off saying it rarely happens.

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15 hours ago, richie_macrophage said:

what are these mercy rules again? i mightve missed

 

14 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

[CONTENT REMOVED]

Dude if you are gonna make a massive post like you did at least be correct in what you post. You are so wrong about this.

Let me educate you.

 

How to Win

Point Accumulation

All modes of battle are scored using a points system. Each team starts with a fixed amount of points and gains or loses points for various events, depending on game mode. Battles are on a 20 minute timer, with four possible victory conditions:

  1. Destroy all enemy ships.
  2. Reduce enemy team's score to 0 points. (Mercy Rule is this one)
  3. Score 1000 points before time expires.
  4. Have more points than the enemy team when time expires.


If time expires and both teams have an equal number of points, the game is considered a Draw. This is treated as a loss for both teams for the purposes of experience and credit gains.

Edited by Rally_Vincent
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Just had 4 torps just about ready to hit a Kirishima and the battle ends with 2 ships left, can't take much more of this.

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14 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

[CONTENT REMOVED]

You are funny.....  :Smile_teethhappy:

The sad part, is that players whom have little time for the game because of work or family are what make all games work !  So, that 30K for me isn't a game uninstalling proposition.............  For those whom don't have the time, there are always better managed and run games........   And that, is the real boo-hoo with alligator tears.......because we stupidly lost players we could have kept.... 

Edited by Rally_Vincent
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1 hour ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

That is a victory condition nit wit it has nothing to do with mercy. Mercy would be looking at both teams and declaring one a winner because the other didn't stand a chance! In any case even if all conditions were removed except the time limit there would still be instances of HPs left in play!

The Mercy Rule IS the very victory condition that you're talking about. Many people just call it "Mercy Rule," because I'm guessing it's much easier and faster to type than "the victory condition that reduces enemies' points to zero." It's also easier to remember, if you ask me. Why is it called "Mercy" then? I have nu idea, honestly. However, IMHO, it's just one of those catchphrases that just take off after enough people start using it, regardless of the original meaning, even if the original word doesn't jive with the context that it's being used in this case.

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1 hour ago, JollyRoger6969 said:

What drugs are you injecting into your system to make you say such things? I mean all I did was to call you out on being wrong.. Is it that hard to admit you were wrong that you have to resort to insults?

Basically any time anyone has any complaint or suggestion about Co-op, that poster will show up to insult, belittle, and attack any poster who makes a complaint or suggestion. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

The Mercy Rule IS the very victory condition that you're talking about. Many people just call it "Mercy Rule," because I'm guessing it's much easier and faster to type than "the victory condition that reduces enemies' points to zero." It's also easier to remember, if you ask me. Why is it called "Mercy" then? I have nu idea, honestly. However, IMHO, it's just one of those catchphrases that just take off after enough people start using it, regardless of the original meaning, even if the original word doesn't jive with the context that it's being used in this case.

In amateur sports, especially at the "junior" levels, there is often a rule that if one team is up by more than a certain number of points after a certain point in the game (say, X runs after the end of the Y inning in baseball or softball), the rest of the game won't be played.   The idea is that it's gone past any realistic chance of a comeback, it's not competitive, and the losing team is just being put through the grinder at that point.   

In WOWS, when you have two human teams facing each other, and one has gone into negative points, WG has determined (right or wrong) that the battle should end, giving "mercy" to the losing team and not putting a few players through being hunted down and sunk in a (actual or supposed) hopeless battle. 

That's WHY "mercy rules" exist. 

In Co-op, one side is made entirely of AI bots.  Obviously they don't feel or know or think anything, it's just code churning along.  There is zero cause for "mercy" in this case. 

On the flip side, Co-op already has a lower "multiplier" for XP and credits than other modes, has fewer ships, and has bots that tend to die quick and stupid to each other if there are bots on both sides, and other aspects that reduce the payout at the end of each battle, especially for ships that take a while to get into the thick of it (slow BBs, low ROF ships, low range ships, etc).   Having battles routinely end with 2 or 3 enemies still afloat just compounds those already-compounding factors.  

Some will bring up a red herring, a canard, that removing the mercy rule will make lots of battles take far longer...  but many of these battles that are cut off early involve enemy ships directly engaged with player ships, shots and torps in mid-"flight", etc.  Rarely would significant extra time be required to finish.  And I'd gladly take a few battles a week that go 2 to 5 minutes longer, to avoid the multiple battles PER DAY that get cut off early by the mercy rule right now. 

 

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Fem already posted in one of the multiple threads about the Mercy Rule in Co-op not too long back that WG is looking into it. Not going to get changed/removed/fixed/etc... soon but they are aware of it and are looking into it.

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44 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Fem already posted in one of the multiple threads about the Mercy Rule in Co-op not too long back that WG is looking into it. Not going to get changed/removed/fixed/etc... soon but they are aware of it and are looking into it.

When the last ship(s) are a long way from me I am happy for a "mercy" win. When they are close I am not so happy but there is probably at least one person that is far away and will get nothing out of the match lasting longer.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

When the last ship(s) are a long way from me I am happy for a "mercy" win. When they are close I am not so happy but there is probably at least one person that is far away and will get nothing out of the match lasting longer.

I'll deal with the former to avoid the latter.

Especially since I far more often find myself in the latter situation.

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

In amateur sports, especially at the "junior" levels, there is often a rule that if one team is up by more than a certain number of points after a certain point in the game (say, X runs after the end of the Y inning in baseball or softball), the rest of the game won't be played.   The idea is that it's gone past any realistic chance of a comeback, it's not competitive, and the losing team is just being put through the grinder at that point.   

In WOWS, when you have two human teams facing each other, and one has gone into negative points, WG has determined (right or wrong) that the battle should end, giving "mercy" to the losing team and not putting a few players through being hunted down and sunk in a (actual or supposed) hopeless battle. 

That's WHY "mercy rules" exist. 

In Co-op, one side is made entirely of AI bots.  Obviously they don't feel or know or think anything, it's just code churning along.  There is zero cause for "mercy" in this case. 

On the flip side, Co-op already has a lower "multiplier" for XP and credits than other modes, has fewer ships, and has bots that tend to die quick and stupid to each other if there are bots on both sides, and other aspects that reduce the payout at the end of each battle, especially for ships that take a while to get into the thick of it (slow BBs, low ROF ships, low range ships, etc).   Having battles routinely end with 2 or 3 enemies still afloat just compounds those already-compounding factors.  

Some will bring up a red herring, a canard, that removing the mercy rule will make lots of battles take far longer...  but many of these battles that are cut off early involve enemy ships directly engaged with player ships, shots and torps in mid-"flight", etc.  Rarely would significant extra time be required to finish.  And I'd gladly take a few battles a week that go 2 to 5 minutes longer, to avoid the multiple battles PER DAY that get cut off early by the mercy rule right now. 

 

People just call the victory condition as "Mercy Rule," because that's what's stuck. Whenever someone says "Mercy Rule," most people would instantly recognize what he/she is trying to talk about. It really has nothing to do with the details or the original meaning of the word. This is what I was implying with my previous post.

The fact that the AI bots are just codes in a program and feel no emotion has nothing to do with why many people call the victory condition as "Mercy Rule." It's just the name that the general consensus has given to that specific victory condition, and it just stuck around. Therefore, that's what most people will use when they talk about the victory condition.

As I said before, typing out "Mercy Rule" is far easier, simpler, and faster than typing out the entire phrase of "the victory condition of reducing the enemies' points to zero."

Edited by Blorgh2017
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6 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

You may have a point, but all that is actually beside the point.

People just call the victory condition as "Mercy Rule," because that's what's stuck. Whenever someone says "Mercy Rule," most people would instantly recognize what he/she is trying to talk about. It really has nothing to do with the details or the original meaning of the word. This is what I was implying with my previous post.

The fact that the AI bots are just codes in a program and feel no emotion has nothing to do with why many people call the victory condition as "Mercy Rule." It's just the name that the general consensus has given to that specific victory condition, and it just stuck around. Therefore, that's what most people will use when they talk about the victory condition.

As I said before, typing out "Mercy Rule" is far easier, simpler, and faster than typing out the entire phrase of "the victory condition of reducing the enemies' points to zero."

What you're doing is simply trying to change people from using that name for that specific victory condition... and good luck with that~ (/s). It's no different than many lingoes, catchphrases, meme words, and etc in human pop culture, which spawn and become standard, simply due to the repeated use by the community and society. If you ask me, what you're doing is simply trying to swim upstream in a vertical waterfall... in an utter vain.

 

The question of why it's called a "mercy rule" came up, and I started out by answering that question.  

1 hour ago, Blorgh2017 said:

 Why is it called "Mercy" then? I have nu idea, honestly.

 

Go back and read my post, and you may notice that at no point did I say that people should stop calling it the mercy rule, that "mercy rule" is a bad name for it, or that anyone is wrong for using that name.

*I* use that name for it all the time.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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3 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

 

The question of why it's called a "mercy rule" came up, and I started out by answering that question.  

 

Go back and read my post, and you may notice that at no point did I say that people should stop calling it the mercy rule, that "mercy rule" is a bad name for it, or that anyone is wrong for using that name.

*I* use that name for it all the time.

 

Sorry, I mistook you for someone else. I editted my post to remove that bit.

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IMO,

This misguided, ill-informed grievances against a battle condition. Which for propaganda purposes was called the "Mercy rule" has to stop.

At issue is not how many ships are left, its how much they're not earning compared to players who play the order game modes.

Co-op main say they want to earn more, while the rest of the population only looks down on them. Rightfully so...

In the queot of a famous basketball player, "This not a regular game, its not the playoffs, we're talking about practice."

  • No one earns more or is rewarded more for practice games... What sport league does that ? None, no one.

Now, here is the real reason Co-op games earn earn less then Random and other game modes (big nerf in patch 0.8.10). Its not the battle condition...

In Co-op you dont earn honorary/heroic  achievements. Those achievements carry rewards boosts...

In summery.

For those drinking the "Mercy" rule propaganda kool-aid... You're doing a disservice to the game mode and to the game.

Removing the battle condition, will not improve the situation..

Players, of other game modes. Have every right, to call you guys out on your toxic advocator of "ill-advise" changes. 

 

Edited by Navalpride33
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7 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Removing the battle condition, will not improve the situation..

Exactly. Even in an destroy them all or lose battle type the time limit will likely leave HPs of one or both teams on the map.

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44 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

IMO,

This misguided, ill-informed grievances against a battle condition. Which for propaganda purposes was called the "Mercy rule" has to stop.

At issue is not how many ships are left, its how much they're not earning compared to players who play the order game modes.

Co-op main say they want to earn more, while the rest of the population only looks down on them. Rightfully so...

In the queot of a famous basketball player, "This not a regular game, its not the playoffs, we're talking about practice."

  • No one earns more or is rewarded more for practice games... What sport league does that ? None, no one.

Now, here is the real reason Co-op games earn earn less then Random and other game modes (big nerf in patch 0.8.10). Its not the battle condition...

In Co-op you dont earn honorary/heroic  achievements. Those achievements carry rewards boosts...

In summery.

For those drinking the "Mercy" rule propaganda kool-aid... You're doing a disservice to the game mode and to the game.

Removing the battle condition, will not improve the situation..

Players, of other game modes. Have every right, to call you guys out on your toxic advocator of "ill-advise" changes. 

 

Just give it to them, theyll still earn way less than PVP. 

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