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LastSamurai714

Can someone explain...

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Because it was a full strength squadron that had to shed the entire group just to get off a single attack run. But you’ll still complain about it. :Smile_smile:

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7 minutes ago, LastSamurai714 said:

How a CV can lose 80% of a squadron and still fire the same number of rockets?

You have three attack groups at tier 10. You can lose 2/3 of a squadron and still have a full attack group.

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8 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Because it was a full strength squadron that had to shed the entire group just to get off a single attack run. But you’ll still complain about it. :Smile_smile:

Second attack...and almost half my HP gone in the first two minutes.  Poor guy had to shed one squadron for that...now I feel bad.

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On 12/8/2019 at 12:58 AM, LastSamurai714 said:

Second attack...and almost half my HP gone in the first two minutes.  Poor guy had to shed one squadron for that...now I feel bad.

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs by midway ap (edited because grammar nazis cant handle something being mistyped and will pick out that one little thing and stick their fingers in their ears for the rest of the post) bombs tonight.  Poor midway having to shed 2/3 of his squadron for that.  Luckily I used my repair after the first two fires so the second two got to burn on me the entire time for another 27k damage.  I guess it made up for him using so much of one of his squads.  He was already dead though, so I guess its not all bad since thats the damage he did post being at the bottom of the ocean.

Edited by The_Abysss
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31 minutes ago, The_Abysss said:

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs by midway ap bombs tonight.  Poor midway having to shed 2/3 of his squadron for that.  Luckily I used my repair after the first two fires so the second two got to burn on me the entire time for another 27k damage.  I guess it made up for him using so much of one of his squads.  He was already dead though, so I guess its not all bad since thats the damage he did post being at the bottom of the ocean.

Dev striking a cruiser for 35k is fine though?

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Some squadrons also come in groups of four,  so they get off four attack runs before being empty.  While not your 80%,  thats still 75% of the squadron down.  Course that means the squadrons total damage was cut into a fourth but...I get the feeling that doesn't matter to you.  You'd only be happy if the damage done was zero.

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3 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Some squadrons also come in groups of four,  so they get off four attack runs before being empty.  While not your 80%,  thats still 75% of the squadron down.  Course that means the squadrons total damage was cut into a fourth but...I get the feeling that doesn't matter to you.  You'd only be happy if the damage done was zero.

Or maybe some sort of functional defense against it would suffice.

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2 hours ago, The_Abysss said:

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs by midway ap bombs tonight.  Poor midway having to shed 2/3 of his squadron for that.  Luckily I used my repair after the first two fires so the second two got to burn on me the entire time for another 27k damage.  I guess it made up for him using so much of one of his squads.  He was already dead though, so I guess its not all bad since thats the damage he did post being at the bottom of the ocean.

Midway doesnt have AP bombs.

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1 hour ago, Dr_Citadel said:

Dev striking a cruiser for 35k is fine though?

Why do people keep brainlessly asking this stupid question?

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2 hours ago, LastSamurai714 said:

Second attack...and almost half my HP gone in the first two minutes.  Poor guy had to shed one squadron for that...now I feel bad.

When a CV attacks, for a short while, its forces are split. There are 2-4 planes retreating, and the rest of them still under fire regardless. You are attacking both groups just as much, meaning at least 1 kill isn't too hard to get if your AA's any good.

Not only that, but, as things currently are, 1-2 of our strikes worth of planes are used as a buffer to keep us able to do our 1-2 attacks on someone.

Here's an example. Shokaku has something like 5 groups of 2 torp planes, making it not especially hard to get 3 strikes in unless AA is just that strong. Meanwhile, those sets of 2 planes, while retreating, often lose 1, or maybe even both planes, so losses will be especially high compared to other plane types. So you can effectively shoot down all 10 planes despite them getting off multiple strikes. Meanwhile, the CV will take in the neighborhood of 10-12 minutes to regen an entire squad of planes, so you just crippled that CV for, more often than not, the rest of the game. Most CVs simply don't have the reserves to make up for losing an entire squad for several minutes, basically shutting down whatever type of plane was used. After that, every single loss will be felt, and quite badly at that.

Well, or you shot down fighters. There is no separate indicator between the two. If in a DD, CVs often will drop a fighter on you for spotting. If in a CV or BB, dropping a fighter simi-local can also keep you spotted. Enterprise has fighter squads consisting of about 10 planes, meaning, if a CV dropped fighters on you the whole game, you'd easily end up with about 90 largely meaningless plane kills.

2 hours ago, The_Abysss said:

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs by midway ap bombs tonight. 

Midway has HE bombs. That's why you were set on fire. AP can't set you on fire, but HE has a chance to set its target on fire. At T10, only Hakuryu has AP bombs.

Still, either you were extremely unlucky, which I find pretty unlikely considering the sheer number of hits, or you let them get clean attacks in, as you simply don't tend to get 37k damage with HE bombs unless your target makes it extremely easy by letting you drop bow/stern on. The maximum damage a midway could do in two strikes is 44,755 if my math is accurate. That means around 2-3 bombs of the 12 missed depending on saturation.

Still, not only that, but damconning before the CV is done is a very, very bad idea by T10. An Audacious or Midway is almost guaranteed a fire on a good hit, and you will often see 2-3 fires started rather than just 1. It's like dam conning while still under fire by a smolensk. Sure, it'll put them out, but you're just going to be set on fire again not long after, what with the super short duration DCP of an IJN BB.

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2 hours ago, Hatsuzuki_DD said:

Midway doesnt have AP bombs.

Yeah, every time I see mistakes like this, I'm inclined to think the person who makes them is either

a) So uncomprehending of weapon mechanics that they shouldn't be playing at high tier or

b) Deliberately lying in such a manner as to fuel outrage.

Possibly both.

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5 hours ago, The_Abysss said:

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs by midway ap bombs tonight.  Poor midway having to shed 2/3 of his squadron for that.  Luckily I used my repair after the first two fires so the second two got to burn on me the entire time for another 27k damage.  I guess it made up for him using so much of one of his squads.  He was already dead though, so I guess its not all bad since thats the damage he did post being at the bottom of the ocean.

Midway AP bombs? Love to know where he got them.

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4 hours ago, LastSamurai714 said:

Or maybe some sort of functional defense against it would suffice.

WG doesnt want you to have functional defense against it. They campaigned for 18 months against RTS carriers concentrating on fleet defense...and then removed nearly all fleet defense capability with the rework.

THIS IS NOT THE CV CAPTAINS FAULT.

Blame WG.

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5 hours ago, Dr_Citadel said:

Dev striking a cruiser for 35k is fine though?

No actually I think cruisers get citted too easily too.  But not really comparable in situation or what the thread is about.

4 hours ago, Hatsuzuki_DD said:

Midway doesnt have AP bombs.

 

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yeah, every time I see mistakes like this, I'm inclined to think the person who makes them is either

a) So uncomprehending of weapon mechanics that they shouldn't be playing at high tier or

b) Deliberately lying in such a manner as to fuel outrage.

Possibly both.

Yes i misspoke, bombers though

3 hours ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Midway has HE bombs. That's why you were set on fire. AP can't set you on fire, but HE has a chance to set its target on fire. At T10, only Hakuryu has AP bombs.

Still, either you were extremely unlucky, which I find pretty unlikely considering the sheer number of hits, or you let them get clean attacks in, as you simply don't tend to get 37k damage with HE bombs unless your target makes it extremely easy by letting you drop bow/stern on. The maximum damage a midway could do in two strikes is 44,755 if my math is accurate. That means around 2-3 bombs of the 12 missed depending on saturation.

Still, not only that, but damconning before the CV is done is a very, very bad idea by T10. An Audacious or Midway is almost guaranteed a fire on a good hit, and you will often see 2-3 fires started rather than just 1. It's like dam conning while still under fire by a smolensk. Sure, it'll put them out, but you're just going to be set on fire again not long after, what with the super short duration DCP of an IJN BB.

The post battle showed 11 hits, and yes both runs were full straight on, i couldnt turn without giving my broadside to a t10 bb (montana?)  He hung out for a minute, he was either going to let the first 2 burn or I was going to put them out and take my chances.  I shot down 2 planes all game so its not like I was going to kill his planes, he was content to wait.  With the smolensk situation, I would move out of range, or not be there in the first place.  Not really possible with a cv.

 

Not that the cv apologists care about any of this, they disregard anything that shows cv's doing this type of thing as just fine.

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1 minute ago, The_Abysss said:

Not that the cv apologists care about any of this, they disregard anything that shows cv's doing this type of thing as just fine.

Who is this referring to?

Be specific with your insults, please. Its the honorable thing to do.

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Had a T-10 Ranked game about a year ago where just a couple minutes into battle, from over 20km I smacked a Yamato for a triple citadel of over 75K HP from my Repub.      I don't think he liked it.  

 

Perspective        :cap_popcorn:

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10 hours ago, The_Abysss said:

My amagi was hit for 37k and 4 fires in 2 runs

 

10 hours ago, The_Abysss said:

by midway ap bombs tonight.  

One of these statements is false lol.

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5 hours ago, ThumperD702 said:

Had a T-10 Ranked game about a year ago where just a couple minutes into battle, from over 20km I smacked a Yamato for a triple citadel of over 75K HP from my Repub.      I don't think he liked it.  

 

Perspective        :cap_popcorn:

Perspective is...”a year ago.”  Aside from that, he had the ability to avoid it or mitigate it.  Wrong place at the wrong time.  You know who the CV can harass and strike at will?  Anyone he wants anywhere on the map really.  

Now throw two of them in the game and try to play anything that doesn’t have an outstanding AA rating.  Better yet try to play any mid tier game against two CV’s...Ranger planes can just stay in De Grasse’s  AA bubble and strike at will.  DFAA is irrelevant.  Priority sector is hardly effective.  Worst of all for every plane you do manage to shoot down in between strikes...it has little to no effect on the ultimate outcome of said strikes.  There’s nothing more frustrating than watching the last couple rocket planes fire the same number of rockets as a full squadron.

 

Edited by LastSamurai714

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20 hours ago, LastSamurai714 said:

How a CV can lose 80% of a squadron and still fire the same number of rockets?

A full squadron has several attack groups depending on the nation, generally 3 groups, so if you shoot down 2/3 of the squadron, 1 attack group is still available for 1 full run of rockets. Theoretically, a full squadron could do 3 runs.

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1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

A full squadron has several attack groups depending on the nation, generally 3 groups, so if you shoot down 2/3 of the squadron, 1 attack group is still available for 1 full run of rockets. Theoretically, a full squadron could do 3 runs.

So AA is essentially useless unless you destroy the whole squadron. Huh...no wonder all the DD players and non amazing AA cruisers left.  Imagine that.

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4 minutes ago, LastSamurai714 said:

So AA is essentially useless unless you destroy the whole squadron. Huh...no wonder all the DD players and non amazing AA cruisers left.  Imagine that.

Yes and AA has been designed that no ship can stop a CV in a 1v1 situations, you have to group up with other players to have a chance. So good luck if you are a smaller ship with shorter range than your team mates. You are stuck sitting with them twiddling your thumbs or getting harassed until you die by the CV because you had the audacity to actually try to shoot something. 

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7 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Yes and AA has been designed that no ship can stop a CV in a 1v1 situations, you have to group up with other players to have a chance. So good luck if you are a smaller ship with shorter range than your team mates. You are stuck sitting with them twiddling your thumbs or getting harassed until you die by the CV because you had the audacity to actually try to shoot something. 

So WG expects people to pay for useless ships like the supposed “OP” T-61 that is powerless against a same tier cv...god forbid two of them. Interesting.

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56 minutes ago, LastSamurai714 said:

So AA is essentially useless unless you destroy the whole squadron. Huh...no wonder all the DD players and non amazing AA cruisers left.  Imagine that.

Yep.

There's no AA build worth using any longer. They might as well get rid of the AA skills entirely. All you're doing is maybe stopping a carrier from making a 3rd attack run, and they have unlimited planes anyway so they just pop out another squadron straight away.

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