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Chados

IJN Mutsuki...How?

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6.4 km range on torpedos that take 73 seconds to reload. And no guns to speak of. And a *true* spotted range in the vicinity of its gun range at about 8km, whatever its stats claim. In smoke. 

It’s a real wakeup call from Isokaze. That’s a pretty decent torpedo boat. This thing...how the hell do y’all make it work? I’m dying to get out of IJN T5 and I have 17k more experience to get before I can manage it.

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You dont....

IJN torp ships have been nerfed since 2017... Which give it the least offensive capable DD from tier 5 to 7...

Along with power creep from

  • Italian cruisers
  • French DDs.
  • QUick turning German BBs.
  • CVs
    • No AA to defend itself

Your options are limited to doing one thing consistently

  • Spotting.

 

Edited by Navalpride33
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I like Mutsuki it gets 8km torps that are quite fast, it also has very good concealment so its good for stealth torping.

Just try to get in close as the torps do spread out a bit.

Other pluses is it has a bit of AA and is vety manuverable.

 

Check out flambass's video. He was citadelling an Aoba with its AP. Hiliarious.

 

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Mutsuki has a 5.4km concealment range when fully specced, which gives her a 2.6 stealth torp window. That's pretty good, considering that the T8 Lightning has similar values, except Mutsuki doesn't have guns nor AA to defend herself. She's likely to suffer a blow or die if she is ambushed or spotted for long enough. Along with her T5 IJN counterpart, Minekaze, they struggle when uptiered.

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Start by removing torpedo acceleration from your commander, it's a skill for CVs and a few specific DDs none of which are in the Shimakaze line. The Mutsuki isn't good but it's better when the torps have 8 km range.

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The Minekaze is a much better 'traditional' ILN destroyer. 

I tend to think of the Mutsuki as a specialist DD. It is more of a support ship with its decent AA (note I didn't say good) and slow reloading but hard hitting torps. You can't really play it as a normal DD, but use it in a supporting role defending high value areas (like caps) or ships (like CVs). It's maneuverability is used to make quick strikes and torp eliminate a single target that threatens these things. But then get out of Dodge quick, because it is nearly useless, except as a distraction target, until the torpedoes reload again - the guns are absolute garbage.

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1 hour ago, Chados said:

6.4 km range on torpedos that take 73 seconds to reload. And no guns to speak of. And a *true* spotted range in the vicinity of its gun range at about 8km, whatever its stats claim. In smoke. 

It’s a real wakeup call from Isokaze. That’s a pretty decent torpedo boat. This thing...how the hell do y’all make it work? I’m dying to get out of IJN T5 and I have 17k more experience to get before I can manage it.

Chin up the shimmy is still a good boat when you get there.

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2 hours ago, Chados said:

6.4 km range on torpedos that take 73 seconds to reload. And no guns to speak of. And a *true* spotted range in the vicinity of its gun range at about 8km, whatever its stats claim. In smoke. 

It’s a real wakeup call from Isokaze. That’s a pretty decent torpedo boat. This thing...how the hell do y’all make it work? I’m dying to get out of IJN T5 and I have 17k more experience to get before I can manage it.

Respec your Mutsuki captain and get rid of Torpedo Acceleration. It's a dumb choice on Mutsuki, and only a real option for a handful of IJN DDs. Then your torps will magically have more than 6.4km range.

Detection blooms out to max gun range when you fire in the open. There is no stealth firing. Stop firing in the open with Mutsuki.

Mutsuki's detection range does not go out to 8km in smoke. If it does then you aren't actually in smoke. My guess is you are sailing at full speed when you use smoke, outrunning it, thus so it never gets the chance to conceal you.

You are still new, and clearly have little experience of DDs, and no understand of visibility mechanics. Learn these crucial mechanics in how to destroyer 101.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Chados said:

6.4 km range on torpedos that take 73 seconds to reload. And no guns to speak of. And a *true* spotted range in the vicinity of its gun range at about 8km, whatever its stats claim. In smoke. 

It’s a real wakeup call from Isokaze. That’s a pretty decent torpedo boat. This thing...how the hell do y’all make it work? I’m dying to get out of IJN T5 and I have 17k more experience to get before I can manage it.

Mutsuki has always been the one terrible ship in that line, all the rest of the Destroyers in that line are excellent. So you will just have to suffer through it to get Fubuki. If you have some XP boosting signal flags and XP camo those can help shorten the time it takes to get through Mutsuki. How I got through was making sure I had Concealment Expert captain skill so I could get as close as possible to Battleships and hopefully score some hits. And if you want to score even more hits use speed boost and go into about 3km range and launch torpedoes and they should instantly sink a full health battleship, just make sure it has its main guns pointed the other way before trying the point blank range trick.

Also as bad as the guns are you can still trying using a smoke screen to hide in and firing HE shells at cruisers and Battkeships to maybe set some fires. Especially on Battleships fires can give you some much needed damage with Mutsuki, but sadly you will have to mainly rely on the torpedoes. Which relying on torpedoes is not using a bad thing in most Destroyers, it’s just the Mutsuki torpedoes were always bad even a couple years ago when I had to get through a Mutsuki.

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It’s 6.4 km torps, not 8. 
 

Six Point Four. If it was 8 like T4...that’d be great.
 

Ah, now I see where I was wrong. Thanks much for the respec tip!

Edited by Chados
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16 minutes ago, Chados said:

It’s 6.4 km torps, not 8. 
 

Six Point Four. If it was 8 like T4...that’d be great.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Mutsuki

Mutsuki.JPG.49896e4a45329eaab298125f0162

8km.

Eight point zero.

You are wrong. You have the Torpedo Acceleration skill on your Mutsuki captain, which shortens the range by 20% to 6.4km.

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Had to go look it up.  But according to the Wiki they're 8km torps.  Only way you're getting 6.4 is if you have the Torpedo Acceleration captain skill (reduces range by 20%, which gets you to 6.4).  It's not a good skill for a Mutsuki captain.  

*Edit* Ninja'd.  But torp accel is what's giving you 6.4.

Edited by ZARDOZ_II

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My first thought was that maybe he has the stock ship etc. etc. because it's been a while since I used her and my memory was foggy, but Wiki reminds me there are no stock torps - what she has at the start is all she gets. 

OP, Mutsuki is designed to teach you the stealthy ninja style of IJN play. Creeping around, using your concealment to its greatest advantage, torping from stealth and then slipping away while you reload to do it all over again just over a minute later.

What you learn in Mutsuki will serve you well further up the line.

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Yup. Had my blonde girl hat on (I’m usually a redhead, go figure) and stupidly had a Captain set up for torpedo acceleration. Didn’t read the whole description before picking the stat. 
 

First game with it fixed, and my T4 Torpedo Ninja (loved Isokaze in T4 which is why I went torpedo line) was back. Plus 20 aircraft shot down. Domo arigato, y’all. Appreciate the tip. My best ever game was with Isokaze where I sunk six reds and it was killing me that I couldn’t do that in T5. 

7 hours ago, KiwiCoaster said:

I like Mutsuki it gets 8km torps that are quite fast, it also has very good concealment so its good for stealth torping.

Just try to get in close as the torps do spread out a bit.

Other pluses is it has a bit of AA and is vety manuverable.

 

Check out flambass's video. He was citadelling an Aoba with its AP. Hiliarious.

 

 

Edited by Chados
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I see the issue got figured out, but I'm still going to drop in my two cents. To be perfectly honest, I got through Mutsuki back when it was T6, and haven't touched it much since the down-tiering. I did actually get it again recently, just to see what has changed and it's actually not so bad as long as you are careful with it. Still, it's not ideal and I'm sure many people will find it quite bad, but most of that is going to depend on what you try to do with it. 

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Yeah, that made the difference. Captain Fujita has Last Stand in place of Torpedo Acceleration now, and that extra klick and a half of range makes all the difference between “omg what a lolbote” to “hmmm...maybe the jeune ecole was onto something.....” I’ve been running without modules because I’d planned to sell ASAP I get to the experience needed to unlock Fubuki but over the last several games I’m actually thinking about keeping Mutsuke after all. 

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Mutsuki is an IJN Destroyer, not a USN BB.  :-)

Torpedo Armament Expertise is what you want because it reduces the time needed to reload the torpedo tubes.  (Instead of Torpedo Acceleration, eh?)

Preventive Maintenance, Last Stand, Torpedo Armament Expertise, and if you have Captain's Skill points left over, get Superintendent for increased number of consumables or Survivability Expert for increased HP.

Optional skills:  Expert Marksman to improve the turn rate of your gun turrets (but you're not a gunboat, remember?) and if you've got still more points to spare then get Concealment Expert to reduce your detection radius or Basics of Survivability or Fire Prevention if you tend to find yourself "in harm's way" quite often because of your play style.

Good luck, @Chados

Quoted from the wiki page:
"...

Player Opinion
Performance
In her previous incarnation at Tier VI, players sometimes referred to Mutsuki as "Mutsucky", because when it came to every category critical to the strengths of mid-tier Japanese destroyers — torpedo reload time, maximum speed, detection range, torpedo launcher layout, etc. — it was basically a downgrade from Minekaze. With Update 0.5.15, Mutsuki drops a tier and is now considered a contemporary of Minekaze, a spot that is not only more befitting from a a historical perspective, but also from the perspective of her in-game capabilities and armament.

Much like Minekaze, Mutsuki is heavily reliant on her torpedoes to perform well. However, she does suffer from quite a long reload time (well over a minute). Mutsuki features two triple-tube torpedo mounts; with a surface detection range of 6.2 km (without camouflage) and a torpedo range of 8km, she can remain undetected whilst unleashing torpedo hell on the enemy. This is the recommended way to play her, as her poor armor coupled with mediocre gun performance means she will not last long in a gun duel with anything besides another Japanese destroyer. Stay away from enemy ships — at least 7 km — and only fire her guns in self-defense if she's already detected.

While slower than Minekaze, Mutsuki still features the fantastic detection and torpedo ranges that make the mid-tier Japanese destroyers so devastating, though she will have a hard time running away if she's spotted. Mutsuki’s anti-aircraft armament looks so-so on paper, but isn't really a threat to enemy planes; luckily, her air detection range goes down to 3.1 km.

Mutsuki is a different kind of challenge than Minekaze, but both ships require patience, good positioning, and excellent map awareness. Learning those skills now in the middle tiers will benefit Japanese destroyer captains the rest of the way. ..."
https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Mutsuki

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2 hours ago, Chados said:

Yeah, that made the difference. Captain Fujita has Last Stand in place of Torpedo Acceleration now, and that extra klick and a half of range makes all the difference between “omg what a lolbote” to “hmmm...maybe the jeune ecole was onto something.....” I’ve been running without modules because I’d planned to sell ASAP I get to the experience needed to unlock Fubuki but over the last several games I’m actually thinking about keeping Mutsuke after all. 

Play your revised Mutsuki for a while to build a stash of Free XP.  Without XP for the B hull and torpedo upgrades, you will despise the stock Fubuki with its 6.8 km concealment and only 6 km torpedoes.

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2 hours ago, Chados said:

Yeah, that made the difference. Captain Fujita has Last Stand in place of Torpedo Acceleration now, and that extra klick and a half of range makes all the difference between “omg what a lolbote” to “hmmm...maybe the jeune ecole was onto something.....” I’ve been running without modules because I’d planned to sell ASAP I get to the experience needed to unlock Fubuki but over the last several games I’m actually thinking about keeping Mutsuke after all. 

Glad you learned from the forums advice and are now enjoying the ship.  

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1 hour ago, C14Alpha said:

Play your revised Mutsuki for a while to build a stash of Free XP.  Without XP for the B hull and torpedo upgrades, you will despise the stock Fubuki with its 6.8 km concealment and only 6 km torpedoes.

It’s...pretty rough! But for 1000 gold it has its own permanent camo. I had no idea. It’s like getting a premium ship for like four bucks. It’s not the Torpedo Ninja right out the gate, that’s for sure. But I have better days ahead when I unlock the B hull and better torpedoes. 
 

Decided to keep Mutsuke after all. It’s definitely an acquired taste. But my hands down favorite ship is Duca degli Abruzzi, and the struggle is real running that one. After I got Luigi Sansonetti today via figuring out Mutsuke, going back to Abruzzi with him in command was a whole new ball game. 

Thanks again. 

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24 minutes ago, Chados said:

It’s...pretty rough! But for 1000 gold it has its own permanent camo. I had no idea. It’s like getting a premium ship for like four bucks. It’s not the Torpedo Ninja right out the gate, that’s for sure. But I have better days ahead when I unlock the B hull and better torpedoes. 
 

Decided to keep Mutsuke after all. It’s definitely an acquired taste. But my hands down favorite ship is Duca degli Abruzzi, and the struggle is real running that one. After I got Luigi Sansonetti today via figuring out Mutsuke, going back to Abruzzi with him in command was a whole new ball game. 

Thanks again. 

Before you buy the perma camo, play the T6 first. Also, by completing the Honorable Service campaign, you get a free T6 IJN DD Shinonome, which is actually pretty good. 

But, I have to say you’ve picked some of the hardest ships in the game to start with. I’ve copied some information below that might be of assistance to you. Otherwise, if I’m online at the same time as you, send me a essays in-game and I’d be happy to division up with you.

 

For new players, I recommend the following as easy to learn and to play: 

  • Destroyers: American destroyers are the easiest to play - their fast firing guns, and torpedoes on both sides (at low tier) means that its a fast, fun run-and-gun style, with great smoke screens.  They are very forgiving - rush in, gun enemy destroyers, and if you win and live, then rush up to a battleship and shove him up with torps... once you get more experience, you can do all of those things better, faster, longer etc. 
  • Cruisers: French cruisers are probably the easiest to play at low-mid tiers. Load HE, shoot slow targets at near your max range to set them on fire - when they repair those fires, set more.  Dodge incoming shells (particularly from battleships) by slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn - then accelerate away again before the next salvo comes.  Use your long-range torpedos to shoot down narrow alleys where the enemy is coming from - sometimes you'll get a hit, and it'll be great. More fires!
    • DO NOT start on the British Cruiser line - these ships take detailed understanding and experience of the game mechanics in order to play; things like target selection, map positioning, map awareness, spotting mechanics, AP bounce and shatter mechanics, smoke screens, fire detection range in smoke, sonar and torpedo aim all to be functional. Experienced players even struggle with this line.  Steer clear.  
  • Battleships: 
    • British: These are sturdy battleships that have excellent HE direct damage and high fire chance - unlike most battleships, shooting HE at things will make them go boom. Because of that, and because they have decent armour protection generally, these battleships are easy to learn: aim well, and profit. 
    • German: Much stronger armour, but wonky/inaccurate main guns - you'll mostly be shooting AP shells at enemy battleships and cruisers.  However, your battleships have good to excellent secondary battery (particularly from Tier 7) and are a defining feature of the line.  Because they are meant to be played up close to the enemy, these ships are easier to aim, take solid damage, and encourage your team to push the capture point you're currently on, helping to win games. 
  • Aircraft carriers: Personally, I suggest avoiding them entirely for now - they are very different to play and hard to do well at.  They are currently undergoing a major re-work (moving from a 2D RTS style control interface into controlling only one squadron at a time in the 3D environment view you know from playing other ships).  Until the re-work settles down, and community contributors can make specialised content to help new players approach carrier play, I suggest learning the other ships first.  There will be plenty of time to come back to carriers later.  

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

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I actually started in 2016. Ran randoms and wasn’t having fun so ended up leaving for three years and got enticed back in October with a free Ishizuchi, found out I had a bunch of free XP saved up, then discovered co-op, and went from there. Abruzzi is my only T7, my highest level ship, and the one I have the most battles in. I have both the Italian premium twins and run them and the RM progression cruiser most often other than the IJN destroyers. I got them for scenarios. And I’m not sorry, they’re not easy to learn but with Captain Sansonetti at the helm on Abruzzi and my 8 point captain on d’Aosta they hold their own in co-op world. Fubuki is a hoot, even with the gimped torpedoes. I just managed to unlock the 10km ones. We’ll see how that goes. 

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