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kia_jim

Why do games end before the timer expires?

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Why is it that even if all ships are not sunk, the vast majority of the time a co-op battle will end before the timer expires? I was in one game where the scenario ended 3 minutes into it. That's crazy!

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6 minutes ago, IAF_NASTY said:

If the red team goes to zero points it’s game over 

This.

4 conditions for a win (I believe.)

1.  Cap the other teams base (Standard Battle only)

2.  Reach 1000 points

3.  Force the other team to 0 points.

4.  Kill all the reds.

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16 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

This.

4 conditions for a win (I believe.)

1.  Cap the other teams base (Standard Battle only)

2.  Reach 1000 points

3.  Force the other team to 0 points.

4.  Kill all the reds.

In Co-op, no.3 is going to happen the overwhelming vast majority of the time.  Often there's 2 enemy bot ships still left, and with the recent move from 8->9 ship teams, adding another player, it means now we can have 3 ships leftover when their points go to zero.

Highly unsatisfying.

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so because everyone in such a hurry to make a kill in co-op, the points have no time to accumulate high enough. Earlier today I went into co-op to practice with one of my new black ships, and the battle was so short, I LITERALLY had time to make 3! yes only 3!!! shots at a bote, and it ended just as i fired 4th. There were still at least 3 botes remaining alive with their paint unscratched. :Smile_facepalm:

Edited by RusskiySpy
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4 minutes ago, RusskiySpy said:

so because everyone in such a hurry to make a kill in co-op, the points have no time to accumulate high enough. Earlier today I went into co-op to practice with one of my new black ships, and the battle was so short, I LITERALLY had time to make 3! yes only 3!!! shots at a bote, and it ended just as i fired 4th. There were still at least 3 botes remaining alive with their paint unscratched. :Smile_facepalm:

You have to quickly find stuff to shoot at, or the game will end and you'll find you've finished at the bottom.

 

The short-timed co-op games are why low-tier US bb's are so frustrating to play there.    I've had quite a few games where I've just arrived into the battle field, fired 1~4 salvos, and the game ends, because all the other ships have already been shooting for the past 3~5 minutes.      

 

Hopefully WG changes co-op to where the game doesn't end until all red ships (read: points/XP available for grabs) are eliminated.  

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6 minutes ago, RusskiySpy said:

so because everyone in such a hurry to make a kill in co-op, the points have no time to accumulate high enough. Earlier today I went into co-op to practice with one of my new black ships, and the battle was so short, I LITERALLY had time to make 3! yes only 3!!! shots at a bote, and it ended just as i fired 4th. There were still at least 3 botes remaining alive with their paint unscratched. :Smile_facepalm:

Winning on points in co-op seems to mostly happen when no one caps in domination while the bots did and your team is not able to kill they fast enough. Taking caps is important in co-op now.

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6 minutes ago, ThumperD702 said:

You have to quickly find stuff to shoot at, or the game will end and you'll find you've finished at the bottom.

 

The short-timed co-op games are why low-tier US bb's are so frustrating to play there.    I've had quite a few games where I've just arrived into the battle field, fired 1~4 salvos, and the game ends, because all the other ships have already been shooting for the past 3~5 minutes.      

 

Hopefully WG changes co-op to where the game doesn't end until all red ships (read: points/XP available for grabs) are eliminated.  

In this particular instance it wasn't even a matter of long getting there (i was in a Tirpitz B and got there fast enough), but with the reload of 30 second (+/-) I just shot 3 times. Like I said it was ridiculously short. :cap_wander:

Yeah I agree, Co-op needs some changes, and not the kind "we added an extra ship in there".

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44 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Winning on points in co-op seems to mostly happen when no one caps in domination while the bots did and your team is not able to kill they fast enough. Taking caps is important in co-op now.

I agree, but what I mean is... and this is only from my personal observation and impression... that even if you do manage to get a cap (because botes freight-train right through it), in many battles there's not enough time for that to make a meaningful difference. To free the cap from oncoming botes that interfere with capture you must sink them (then you'll be able to capture), leading to the same end result.

Edited by RusskiySpy

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52 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Winning on points in co-op seems to mostly happen when no one caps in domination while the bots did and your team is not able to kill they fast enough. Taking caps is important in co-op now.

Taking caps is sometimes the only thing you can do to get better than next to no points.  Sometimes you spawn with 2 other players in no-man's land and see 1 bot ship, sometimes none, and all you got is a nearby cap to get SOME BaseXPs for.  If you're really SOL, you spawn in an area the bots avoid and you have no caps to take nearby :Smile_veryhappy:

 

If the bots aren't all sailing your direction, taking caps, anything for additional ribbons, is what you need to walk out of Co-op with a decent number of (still sh*tty) rewards.

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Thanks for this post. I always assumed it was a glitch or lag prevented the totals to appear on my screen correctly.

 

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1 hour ago, kia_jim said:

Why is it that even if all ships are not sunk, the vast majority of the time a co-op battle will end before the timer expires? I was in one game where the scenario ended 3 minutes into it. That's crazy!

All battles will end when a victory condition is met. Only a few go the entire 20 minutes.

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6 minutes ago, Doodlebug_2018 said:

Those short battles make it much harder for the battleships to get a high score,

Depends on MM.

Ran Kii just before work.

T6-8 BBs and cruisers only.

5 kills, 100k damage, about 2,500xp with modifiers.

Yeah, sometimes the bots or tryhards rush in and torp everything to death. Other times not so much.

If players want the game to keep going, either force the bots to cap, (it is possible,) or Greens need to die.

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12 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Depends on MM.

Ran Kii just before work.

T6-8 BBs and cruisers only.

5 kills, 100k damage, about 2,500xp with modifiers.

Yeah, sometimes the bots or tryhards rush in and torp everything to death. Other times not so much.

If players want the game to keep going, either force the bots to cap, (it is possible,) or Greens need to die.

I totally agree with you. I have had

some great battles myself. Under those same conditions.

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2 hours ago, RusskiySpy said:

I agree, but what I mean is... and this is only from my personal observation and impression... that even if you do manage to get a cap (because botes freight-train right through it), in many battles there's not enough time for that to make a meaningful difference. To free the cap from oncoming botes that interfere with capture you must sink them (then you'll be able to capture), leading to the same end result.

What is highlighted is the exact reason for the Mercy Rule:  to keep you from obtaining "meaningful value !"  You see, that 30K you didn't get killing a BB with torps in the water means it takes you twice as long to finish event requirements or to grind new ships....  They are "forcing you" to play more games because the revenue cycle is tied to "throughput"............throughput = revenue via sales of "stuff" to supplement what you lose to the mercy rule or to inspire you to spend real money on OP/Meta ships or gimmick stuff..........  To frustrate you to spend money.......  I know, sounds a bit backwards but, it is what really happens...!  

I seriously doubt they'll ever fix this.....

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3 hours ago, kia_jim said:

Why is it that even if all ships are not sunk, the vast majority of the time a co-op battle will end before the timer expires? I was in one game where the scenario ended 3 minutes into it. That's crazy!

What people call the mercy rule. If one team gets to 1000 points or 0 points before the timer ends, the game ends.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Game_Modes

 

The Scenarios are scripted. There are primary win conditions that if are failed, end the scenario. You want to complete all the Primary win conditions in a Scenario and as many secondary win conditions that you can. Sinking all the bots in a scenario, does not necessarily complete the primary win conditions.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Scenarios

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One trick is to let the bots have a cap that can generate some points.  "Proper" damage/XP/Credit farming in PvE reminds me a lot of the Truce in Filth battles. And works as reliably, LOL.

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1 hour ago, ExploratorOne said:

One trick is to let the bots have a cap that can generate some points.  "Proper" damage/XP/Credit farming in PvE reminds me a lot of the Truce in Filth battles. And works as reliably, LOL.

It's hard for that to happen when the Co-op games are typically over in 3-5 minutes.

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3 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

What is highlighted is the exact reason for the Mercy Rule:  to keep you from obtaining "meaningful value !"  You see, that 30K you didn't get killing a BB with torps in the water means it takes you twice as long to finish event requirements or to grind new ships....  They are "forcing you" to play more games because the revenue cycle is tied to "throughput"............throughput = revenue via sales of "stuff" to supplement what you lose to the mercy rule or to inspire you to spend real money on OP/Meta ships or gimmick stuff..........  To frustrate you to spend money.......  I know, sounds a bit backwards but, it is what really happens...!  

I seriously doubt they'll ever fix this.....

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. We are talking about individual co-op battle length, and why they end so fast.

 

1 hour ago, ExploratorOne said:

One trick is to let the bots have a cap that can generate some points.  "Proper" damage/XP/Credit farming in PvE reminds me a lot of the Truce in Filth battles. And works as reliably, LOL.

That is exactly what I mean. Bots run out of points because everyone rushes to sink as many as they can before the other player does and before the battle is over. As a result the bots just run out of points quickly without caps adding them any points, so the match ends and there are still ships left. That is actually an interesting point you brought up, very spot on

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1 minute ago, RusskiySpy said:

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. We are talking about individual co-op battle length, and why they end so fast.

 

That is exactly what I mean. Bots run out of points because everyone rushes to sink as many as they can before the other player does and before the battle is over. As a result the bots just run out of points quickly without caps adding them any points, so the match ends and there are still ships left. That is actually an interesting point you brought up, very spot on

There are other things/"tricks" you can do to extend the game. Play in a div on voice chat. When the score gets low, allow a non div member to yolo and die, extend the game. Rinse and repeat.

You could even just do this right at the start of the game. Not very team like, but extends the game and you can possibly earn more XP. Requires the sacrificial teammates to not be able to trade, but plenty of players can barely do that anyway.

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4 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

There are other things/"tricks" you can do to extend the game. Play in a div on voice chat. When the score gets low, allow a non div member to yolo and die, extend the game. Rinse and repeat.

You could even just do this right at the start of the game. Not very team like, but extends the game and you can possibly earn more XP. Requires the sacrificial teammates to not be able to trade, but plenty of players can barely do that anyway.

:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by RusskiySpy

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