Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Nicolas_Sandrini

which line has the best cruisers?

23 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
38 posts
1,549 battles

since im pretty bad and  only because im stuborn, i want to play cruissers! the thing is i cant find a decent guide on youtube/discord or this forum about my question. i have hipper,chapayev, new orleans, but i struggle a lot playing them, i always receive a 10k salvo dmg at least once even from weird angles and only 2 of 4 or 8 salvos from a BB. which is very frustrating and makes me wonder about the game balance.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,535
[SYN]
Members
8,236 posts
13,957 battles

If you are having trouble then drop down a few tiers to practice and get comfortable. T7/8 really isn't the best place to learn. Try t6. I think that is a good place for cruisers.

There is no best cruiser line, but I think the IJN cruisers are good for learning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
867
[IND8]
[IND8]
Members
981 posts
10,370 battles

Different lines have different roles in a battle, and as such comparing the lines can be largely impractical as the correct way to play Des Moines is completely different from how to play Henri IV. That said, the best line for you depends on what you want to do and can learn to be good at doing. As such, I offer these suggestions: 

Do you want to:

I. Defend caps?

     A. Use islands for cover while using radar to spot?

          1. Have powerful guns? (Play Des Moines)

          2. Have a lot of guns that start fires? (Play Worcester)

     B. Use smoke for cover?

          1. Have powerful guns? (Play Venezia)

          2. Have rapid firing guns? (Play Minotaur)

II. Shoot a lot while moving?

     A. While charging enemy destroyers when they lack battleship support?

          1. Heal back large amounts of damage? (Play Goliath when it releases)

          2. Have hydro that functions at very long range? (Play Hindenburg)

     B. While distancing yourself from the enemy fleet?

          1. With great torpedoes? (play Zao)

          2. With an absurd rate of fire? (Play Henri IV)

III. Be a sniper? (Play Moskva)

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,505
[RKLES]
Members
12,554 posts
14,283 battles
56 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

If you are having trouble then drop down a few tiers to practice and get comfortable. T7/8 really isn't the best place to learn. Try t6. I think that is a good place for cruisers.

There is no best cruiser line, but I think the IJN cruisers are good for learning. 

I agree lower tiers are better for practicing.

I also agree about IJN line being best to learn with. My first Cruiser line that I was able to complete was the Japanese line, it seems to have the highest percentage of good ships in its that are more forgiving to those that are learning cruisers. Rest of the Cruiser lines I have played have contained at least some ships that had paper thin armor, easily damaged Citadels, and often some other issues. Like German Tier 5-7 are highly vulnerable to taking damage.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
38 posts
1,549 battles

ok ty guys for your advice, i would like to continue playing the russian cruiser line  because some people agree that moskva is a good ship,while lot of people tell me that hinder is the worst t10 ship , but is really hard although  i manage to get myself in the top 5 of the team most of the time.

Edited by Nicolas_Sandrini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,655
[--K--]
[--K--]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,441 posts
9,977 battles

@Nicolas_Sandrini

Just know if you go for Moskva, she will not play like the rest of the line at all.  She plays more like a bow-camping Battleship that sits at range with a huge citadel if you give broadside, which it turns very poorly.

Cruisers are all about dodging for their survival primarily.  The armor can only be used against other cruisers for angling, most battleships will simply overmatch your armor aka guaranteed to penetrate you and deal potentially huge damage.

Having spatial awareness and reacting to shots, while moving into positions where you generally find yourself only receiving fire from one angle at a safe distance while also being able to pump HE at plenty of targets is key.  Using Chapy for example I hope you have IFHE in your captain build, and that if you have Hull B to use Radar on DDs in smoke.  Your radar range is 12 km on that note.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,878 posts
11,515 battles
On 12/7/2019 at 5:56 PM, Nicolas_Sandrini said:

since im pretty bad and  only because im stuborn, i want to play cruissers! the thing is i cant find a decent guide on youtube/discord or this forum about my question. i have hipper,chapayev, new orleans, but i struggle a lot playing them, i always receive a 10k salvo dmg at least once even from weird angles and only 2 of 4 or 8 salvos from a BB. which is very frustrating and makes me wonder about the game balance.

A cruiser is kinda a high-risk high reward ship, more so than any other class.

REWARD

  • Great ROF
  • Great fire chance per ROF
  • The ability to avoid incoming fire

RISK

  • You have a citadel
  • Your armor is overmatched by almost every bb.
  • your consumables can mislead you into styles of play
  • You are expected to support everyone

These are some generic tips for cruiser play.

  1. Never shoot first. Shooting =giving away position. It is more important for you to support either a dd or a bb then for you to take the initiative in an engagement, plus first to fire first to be fired on.
  2. Always engage while moving away or in a turn to move away. The idea is pretty simple but hitting a constantly moving target is harder and thus you live longer.
  3. Terrian is your friend. Use it to break LOS and to fire over. DONT BE TOO CLOSE OR YOU CANT SHOOT OVER IT. Figure 3-5km
  4. Just because you have a rear turret doesn't mean you should use it. Many times trying to get that extra possible damage opens your ship up to a more devastating strike. Its easier to hit a barn then it is to hit a knife.
  5. If a target is driving right at a friendly focus everything on it and if shows any broadside use ap and go for the upper belt.
  6. If you are forced to engage while closing distance on a target, late gameplay. Always keep the ship moving left and right. Only use the back turret/s after the enemy has fired.
  7. bow on use HE, broadside under 12km AP.
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5
[TACT]
Members
56 posts
9,628 battles
1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

A cruiser is kinda a high-risk high reward ship, more so than any other class.

REWARD

  • Great ROF
  • Great fire chance per ROF
  • The ability to avoid incoming fire

RISK

  • You have a citadel
  • Your armor is overmatched by almost every bb.
  • your consumables can mislead you into styles of play
  • You are expected to support everyone

These are some generic tips for cruiser play.

  1. Never shoot first. Shooting =giving away position. It is more important for you to support either a dd or a bb then for you to take the initiative in an engagement, plus first to fire first to be fired on.
  2. Always engage while moving away or in a turn to move away. The idea is pretty simple but hitting a constantly moving target is harder and thus you live longer.
  3. Terrian is your friend. Use it to break LOS and to fire over. DONT BE TOO CLOSE OR YOU CANT SHOOT OVER IT. Figure 3-5km
  4. Just because you have a rear turret doesn't mean you should use it. Many times trying to get that extra possible damage opens your ship up to a more devastating strike. Its easier to hit a barn then it is to hit a knife.
  5. If a target is driving right at a friendly focus everything on it and if shows any broadside use ap and go for the upper belt.
  6. If you are forced to engage while closing distance on a target, late gameplay. Always keep the ship moving left and right. Only use the back turret/s after the enemy has fired.
  7. bow on use HE, broadside under 12km AP. 

 

Great summary!  Thanks a bunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,798
[FML]
Members
4,028 posts
15,640 battles
On 12/10/2019 at 9:21 PM, blopplop_2019 said:

Great summary!  Thanks a bunch.

It is a good summary, and I agree with it. 

You and @Nicolas_Sandrini might also be interested in my Ship Role quick reference guide, linked below. It gives some tips about how to play light cruisers, heavy cruisers and how to counter battleships, destroyers and carriers etc. 

Furthermore, I think French cruisers are the easiest to learn. 

I have copied some information below that may be helpful for you, Nicolas.

 Good luck!

 

For new players, I recommend the following as easy to learn and to play: 

  • Destroyers: American destroyers are the easiest to play - their fast firing guns, and torpedoes on both sides (at low tier) means that its a fast, fun run-and-gun style, with great smoke screens.  They are very forgiving - rush in, gun enemy destroyers, and if you win and live, then rush up to a battleship and shove him up with torps... once you get more experience, you can do all of those things better, faster, longer etc. 
  • Cruisers: French cruisers are probably the easiest to play at low-mid tiers. Load HE, shoot slow targets at near your max range to set them on fire - when they repair those fires, set more.  Dodge incoming shells (particularly from battleships) by slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn - then accelerate away again before the next salvo comes.  Use your long-range torpedos to shoot down narrow alleys where the enemy is coming from - sometimes you'll get a hit, and it'll be great. More fires!
    • DO NOT start on the British Cruiser line - these ships take detailed understanding and experience of the game mechanics in order to play; things like target selection, map positioning, map awareness, spotting mechanics, AP bounce and shatter mechanics, smoke screens, fire detection range in smoke, sonar and torpedo aim all to be functional. Experienced players even struggle with this line.  Steer clear.  
  • Battleships: 
    • British: These are sturdy battleships that have excellent HE direct damage and high fire chance - unlike most battleships, shooting HE at things will make them go boom. Because of that, and because they have decent armour protection generally, these battleships are easy to learn: aim well, and profit. 
    • German: Much stronger armour, but wonky/inaccurate main guns - you'll mostly be shooting AP shells at enemy battleships and cruisers.  However, your battleships have good to excellent secondary battery (particularly from Tier 7) and are a defining feature of the line.  Because they are meant to be played up close to the enemy, these ships are easier to aim, take solid damage, and encourage your team to push the capture point you're currently on, helping to win games. 
  • Aircraft carriers: Personally, I suggest avoiding them entirely for now - they are very different to play and hard to do well at.  They are currently undergoing a major re-work (moving from a 2D RTS style control interface into controlling only one squadron at a time in the 3D environment view you know from playing other ships).  Until the re-work settles down, and community contributors can make specialised content to help new players approach carrier play, I suggest learning the other ships first.  There will be plenty of time to come back to carriers later.  

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

#StandardWords

 

Edited by UltimateNewbie
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
38 posts
1,549 battles

interesting posts, im on a dm donskoi atm and feels the same, i saw OLD videos of players doing 100k dmg with cruisers while bb and dd can do twice everygame so its makes me wonder about the  < high risk hard reward > you mentioned ... i can never do more than 100 k dmg on my donskoi, probably i do only 50k per game which sucks, i cant play aggressive because its gets destroyed very easily, and i cant stay at 19 km all the time because i only do 50 k dmg, or thats the cap this ship /role has ? , i try to focus bb , then cl and then dds , since bbs are the biggest threat and dd are just too hard to hit at t9 t10 with the dispersion this ship has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
906
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,116 posts
12,795 battles
On 12/7/2019 at 7:04 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I agree lower tiers are better for practicing.

I also agree about IJN line being best to learn with. My first Cruiser line that I was able to complete was the Japanese line, it seems to have the highest percentage of good ships in its that are more forgiving to those that are learning cruisers. Rest of the Cruiser lines I have played have contained at least some ships that had paper thin armor, easily damaged Citadels, and often some other issues. Like German Tier 5-7 are highly vulnerable to taking damage.

I'll agree with that, The line goes from light cruisers/giant destroyers to heavy cruisers at tier 5, the Myoko is so solid that you get the same basic ship from tier 7 to tier 9, and the Zao can be played almost identically to an Ibuki, just better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,798
[FML]
Members
4,028 posts
15,640 battles
14 hours ago, Nicolas_Sandrini said:

interesting posts, im on a dm donskoi atm and feels the same, i saw OLD videos of players doing 100k dmg with cruisers while bb and dd can do twice everygame so its makes me wonder about the  < high risk hard reward > you mentioned ... i can never do more than 100 k dmg on my donskoi, probably i do only 50k per game which sucks, i cant play aggressive because its gets destroyed very easily, and i cant stay at 19 km all the time because i only do 50 k dmg, or thats the cap this ship /role has ? , i try to focus bb , then cl and then dds , since bbs are the biggest threat and dd are just too hard to hit at t9 t10 with the dispersion this ship has.

Hi.  So, I too had some difficulty with the Donskoi initially - then i learnt its role.  You are a back line support ship with railguns - so dont rush in, dont lead the charge, dont be the only ship on a flank. Most of the time, your radar is a trap.    

In the first half of battle, your job is to set fires on battleships from near max range (14-16km) in open water , which requires the following things: 

  • Watch all enemy battleships that can shoot you like a hawk.  Zoom in to fire, zoom out as soon as you've fired, look around - particularly where the enemy battleships are pointing their turrets, then zoom in to see where your shells land so you can correct your aim.  If you arent always watching your enemies, you will die.  Suddenly.  Remember, you are a cruiser.  
    • Hyper awareness will give you time to start dodging enemy return fire - for instance,  even before your 'priority target' indicator goes up, if you can see that enemy Yamato at 18km start moving its turrets away from your teammate and towards you, you can decide where and how you need to run.  Just before he fires, go into full reverse - most players cant tell that you've changed speed so rapidly.  Then when you see the muzzle flash, turn your rudder hard over - to him, it will look like you've stopped on a dime and ninja-dodged, but make sure you immediately start accelerating again when those shells splash so you can have enough speed to do it again in 25 seconds...
  • When firing your guns, 'walk' the guns over the enemy ship - dont just double click like you are used to.  Walking fire will spread your shells around more, potentially setting 2-3 fires instead of just one.  This is really what saps enemy DCP.  
  • Watch your targets for use of DCP - if they put out a fire or two, then go out of your way to set 2 more.  I generally tried to keep 2 fires burning on all battleships in range at all times - dont bother trying to set 3 or 4 at this tier, as most battleships will be running fire prevention it is really hard to set that last fire - particularly when they are bow on, hitting the stern can be hard.  Instead, it is much better to just set the battleship next to that target on fire instead.  And just cycle through again and again.  
    • For what feels like forever,  setting these fires will not seem to have any effect on the enemy fleet.  That's OK - early in a battle, all your targets will have DCP and heals available to tank your fire damage, remembering that fire damage is completely healable.  That's not the point - your role is to deny the enemy use of their DCP and heals when they really need it - in mid battle when they are taking more alpha damage and need to disengage, but find themselves suddenly out of time.  
    • Late battle, setting fires like this can kill - so dont be afraid of continuing to torch things later on as well.  

In the second half of battle, this is when your ship really starts to shine.  As you are constantly looking around, and not in the front line of battle, you have excellent situational awareness - put your knowledge to good use. 

  • Start moving towards the flank where your teammates are running from, ie the side that needs some help slowing the enemy down, and set fires on the lead enemy ships - dont get too aggressive though, as you dont want to lead a solo counter-charge - try and maintain that 14-16km gap to minimise the damage you receive in return.  
  • Use your AA to cover the ship(s) that are being harrassed by enemy carriers - you can guess their preferred targets: lonely ships that are low on HP.  Keeping them alive for another 2 strikes and taking out some planes can seriously degrade a carrier's performance at this point.  
  • Use your long-range, but short-duration radar to spot the DD that has broken through your lines, or which is capping a control point, to help reset the cap or warn friendly ships they are about to get torped from an unexpected angle.  
  • And, ultimately, you can set up surprise ambush attacks to torp enemy ships around corners - dont charge in open water though, as you'll usually not make it in time; either they'll kill you slowly as they kite you, or as you go broadside to fire your torps they'll put you down.  Amush attacks work though! 

Anyway, I hope these Donskoi tips help you.  Key thing to remember is: you help your team by doing what appears to be highly selfish damage farming.  This is true - but a damage farmer that is still alive near the end of battle is far more useful than someone who yoloed at the start of battle not understanding the strength of their ship.  

And based on your stats, it looks like you are doing well with your Donskoi - you are setting new personal damage records every few days, you have a 50% win rate, which is higher than your average.  Frankly, for your first line, I think you are doing well - much better than I did with German cruisers!!

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
247
[70]
Members
1,244 posts
6,855 battles
On 12/31/2019 at 3:08 PM, Nicolas_Sandrini said:

im on a dm donskoi atm

God help you.

I have that ship. It's by far the worst of the Russian cruisers that I've played so far.

My own conclusions?

1. God help you if you have to chase enemy, the bow gets overmatched except two small strips by anything 15 inch and over AKA loled through by the AP of all BBs you meet except the occasional Lyon.

2. Your torpedoes are a "don't try to bumrush me" weapon at best, despite their improved range.

3. If you don't have Concealment Expert and IFHE on your captain, you will suffer BADLY. CE is more important. Annoyingly the Moskva doesn't require IFHE so you'll have to respec once you get there (if you can be bothered).

4. Keep enemy BBs within 2km inside your max gun range circle if at all possible. Otherwise you will get citted, a lot.

5. Shake das booty.

6. In my experience this ship does NOT have the capacity to full-reverse and turn because it does not pick up speed quickly enough. Your best bet if more than a single BB is firing on you is to be shaking das booty while kiting away.

For reference, my T10 list is in my signature, and my first Tier 9 was either Seattle or Buffalo. I am prone to open water kiting in every cruiser and battleship and have no idea how to hump island or bow tank while reversing. Unless I am backing away from getting grounded or slowing for a tighter turn, I only know Ahead Full.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
365
[BTLST]
Members
632 posts
9,639 battles

I would suggest doing Heavy Cruisers first of the US, French, Russian, German, and Japanese lines before venturing into the light cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,019
[WORX]
Members
11,106 posts
18,750 battles

From tier 8 and above, none.. They're gun fodder to the BB (except for the khaba)..

From tier 4 to tier 7 you have variety of cruisers or different nations with different roles that might interest you...

One thing for sure, the cruiser is more support/opportunity generating oriented game play.

If by the end of the match you still have your consumables, you failed in that capacity.

Hope this helps...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,136
[CVA16]
Members
5,436 posts
16,488 battles
On 12/29/2019 at 12:12 AM, UltimateNewbie said:

slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn

Just wondering. Does slamming into full reverse make you decelerate any faster? Haven't done any stopwatch tests but it doesn't seem to help. The turning can help bleed speed but throttle position only seems to limit how low you are willing go. The time to reach that speed is the same. It seems logical that it should, but I don't think WG has modeled that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,798
[FML]
Members
4,028 posts
15,640 battles
29 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Just wondering. Does slamming into full reverse make you decelerate any faster? Haven't done any stopwatch tests but it doesn't seem to help. The turning can help bleed speed but throttle position only seems to limit how low you are willing go. The time to reach that speed is the same. It seems logical that it should, but I don't think WG has modeled that.

I haven’t personally tested, but it doesn’t really matter - the point is that you are slowing down when the enemy is trying to gauge the lead they need to fire, and most people just assume that a ship will be driving at full speed if they are being fired at. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,136
[CVA16]
Members
5,436 posts
16,488 battles
23 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

I haven’t personally tested, but it doesn’t really matter - the point is that you are slowing down when the enemy is trying to gauge the lead they need to fire, and most people just assume that a ship will be driving at full speed if they are being fired at. 

So more hyperbole than detailed instruction.

I would add: Speed changes are even harder to detect when heading mostly toward or away from your assailant as your tell-tale smoke is pretty hard to read in those aspects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,798
[FML]
Members
4,028 posts
15,640 battles
1 hour ago, Sabot_100 said:

So more hyperbole than detailed instruction.

Sure, if you consider hitting s one more time as hyperbole. And the post I made was retry detailed - moreso Ryan others in this thread. Seems the only hyperbole here is your assertion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
38 posts
1,549 battles

so if the donskoi is the worst cruiser, is moskva any better? or its just average for both random and clan battles?

 

pd> im trying bb s for first time and it feels stupidly easy at least in a bayern...maybe i have to realise that cruiser is just for top players that can really do something or be usefull on them...

Edited by Nicolas_Sandrini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,048
[WOLF9]
Privateers
14,076 posts
4,661 battles
On 1/7/2020 at 2:55 PM, Nicolas_Sandrini said:

so if the donskoi is the worst cruiser, is moskva any better? or its just average for both random and clan battles?

pd> im trying bb s for first time and it feels stupidly easy at least in a bayern...maybe i have to realise that cruiser is just for top players that can really do something or be usefull on them...

1) Try not to judge the line just by the T10 ship.  You won't be there for a while so consider the ships you'll be playing for the next year or two.  I really like the French cruisers, yet IMO the best cruiser line is the USN CAs.  With New Orleans you start to get a glimmer of their power; with Baltimore the sun will break though.  Buffalo is a powerful, under-appreciated T9, largely because it plays so differently from the T8 and T10, which is Des Moines -- generally counted the overall best T10 cruiser in the game.

2) In a BB it's easier to go longer on the clock before dying, and it's easier to survive a mistake.  But it's harder to have a big impact on a match.  You'll often see BBs with more damage than other classes, but that's because their primary weapons are most effective against other BBs where there is more damage to be had but less XP (because the target has so much to begin with).  The smaller a target is the less well-suited a BB is to kill it.  You don't recognize it now, but a BB is as powerful as his support ships -- CR and DD; an unsupported BB is a weak BB. 

By all means play BBs.  They are fun and have an important place in battle.  Don't dismiss cruisers.  They are very important and require a different skill set.  Even potatoes can use them well with some experience.

Cruisers are essentially anti-DD weapons.  Have you played DDs?  To know your prey, play your prey.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,015
[USA-N]
Members
785 posts
9,520 battles

I liked the UK line for interesting game play. The Leander (VI), Fiji (VII) and Edinburgh (VIII) are all interesting and fun ships to play.

The IJN line is a bit .... The Aoboo has one gun, the Myokpic and the Moogagi are floating citadels.

Nobody even knows what the Ibuzikima is like, because everyone blasts past it with free XP to the Zao, which is a fine ship.

But even the Zao, with its groovy torps and excellent rail guns, needs smoke in the world of CV spotting. 

Buff the Zao! Give it smoke!

Edited by SidTheBlade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×