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ASCHEER_3055

Should CA/CL only be able to use Smoke for Defensive purpose only?

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It seems to me in my OP that Smoke was always used as a Defense purpose in a battle when things weren't going well

in a battle  to escape and regroup....But in WoW Ships its used for both and seems to give some CA/CL a big advantage!!

I have seen it in ranked 14 a ton.....and yes I know its a game and there trying to keep things on a even keel....but it seems to be a

bit skewed? ...........ok let me have it!! lol

ps....this does't pertain to DD

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So if its not DDs, you are talking Minotaur and Smolensk - 2 ships designed around hiding in smoke and would need a complete redesign basically if it was moved to a defensive measure only.

Not very likely.  Smoke can be beaten and smoke ships can be killed.  Is it annoying to get farmed down by a smoked ship?  Sure.  Just like it is annoying to get 15 torps from a shima that you can't see, or one shot by a BB from 20k.

 

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The whole UK CL line is designed around firing from smoke, so how do you make it work if smoke is only defensive? and what changes would you actually make to make smoke "defensive"? increasing smoke firing penalty massively?

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2 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

So if its not DDs, you are talking Minotaur and Smolensk - 2 ships designed around hiding in smoke and would need a complete redesign basically if it was moved to a defensive measure only.

Not very likely.  Smoke can be beaten and smoke ships can be killed.  Is it annoying to get farmed down by a smoked ship?  Sure.  Just like it is annoying to get 15 torps from a shima that you can't see, or one shot by a BB from 20k.

 

True...but lets say you have 2 CA's going at it nice even battle and then the one CA puts up Smoke....at at that point he has a big advantage

and usually by the time you close the range its over!! example: Smolensk agents a Hind...the Smol clearly has the advantage...take the smoke away

or it can only be used as defense when things are going bad or capping...that even things up that's all I am saying   

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22 minutes ago, ASCHEER_3055 said:

a Defense purpose in a battle

Kindly tell us how to distinguish Defensive from other uses?? 

If you can't do that, then your questions has no meaning.

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4 minutes ago, axyarthur said:

The whole UK CL line is designed around firing from smoke, so how do you make it work if smoke is only defensive? and what changes would you actually make to make smoke "defensive"? increasing smoke firing penalty massively?

I see what your saying but in saying that....why dont all CA's have it? fair is fair

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3 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Kindly tell us how to distinguish Defensive from other uses?? 

If you can't do that, then your questions has no meaning.

This.

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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Kindly tell us how to distinguish Defensive from other uses?? 

If you can't do that, then your questions has no meaning.

Meaning ships in real life battles don't SHOOT from smoke!! They use it to escape the battle at hand!

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10 minutes ago, ASCHEER_3055 said:

True...but lets say you have 2 CA's going at it nice even battle and then the one CA puts up Smoke....at at that point he has a big advantage

and usually by the time you close the range its over!! example: Smolensk agents a Hind...the Smol clearly has the advantage...take the smoke away

or it can only be used as defense when things are going bad or capping...that even things up that's all I am saying   

The problem with this is, both ships are on equal footing at this point when the smoke comes up.  Hindi can't see Smol and Smol can't see Hindi...so the advantage is neutral.  Smolensk can use the smoke to run and hide, but so can Hindi.  Unless there is a third party spotting the Hindi, its equal and if there is a spotter, the hindi was in trouble anyways.

Both ships can now blind fire and see what happens.  In the end, the Hindo probably has the advantage because of better range Hypro and more torps, along with being more resilient in general than the paper thin armored Smol.

Anyways, I think if you do this, a few ship lines will have to be overhauled and you will have people SCREAMING for changes to things like Hydro and Radar, and spotting mechanics in general.

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1 minute ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

The problem with this is, both ships are on equal footing at this point when the smoke comes up.  Hindi can't see Smol and Smol can't see Hindi...so the advantage is neutral.  Smolensk can use the smoke to run and hide, but so can Hindi.  Unless there is a third party spotting the Hindi, its equal and if there is a spotter, the hindi was in trouble anyways.

Both ships can now blind fire and see what happens.  In the end, the Hindo probably has the advantage because of better range Hypro and more torps, along with being more resilient in general than the paper thin armored Smol.

Anyways, I think if you do this, a few ship lines will have to be overhauled and you will have people SCREAMING for changes to things like Hydro and Radar, and spotting mechanics in general.

I would agree with that!! Thanks!

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12 minutes ago, ASCHEER_3055 said:

Meaning ships in real life battles don't SHOOT from smoke!! They use it to escape the battle at hand!

Nonsense.  Ships shoot whenever they can get a firing solution.  Smoke tends to block a firing solution in game just as in RL. 

Still, I infer that you would make the effects of smoke go away as soon as a ship in the cloud fires?  Are you familiar with how smoke screens work?  That's exactly what happens (to a point).

Edited by iDuckman

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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Nonsense.  Ships shoot whenever they can get a firing solution.  Smoke tends to block a firing solution in game just as in RL. 

Still, I infer that you would make the effects of smoke go away as soon as a ship in the cloud fires?  Are you familiar with how smoke screens work?

Yes I believe ships with radar could shoot from smoke....but if a ship has Smoke , Radar , and Torps isn't that giving him a big advantage over 

ships with know Smoke?  Every ship is able to put up smoke in RL

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1 minute ago, ASCHEER_3055 said:

Every ship is able to put up smoke in RL

Yeah.  That one makes me wonder.  And RL smoke is subject to weather conditions. 

Gotta fall back on the truth that this isn't a simulation.  It's a game with realistic flavor.

Are you trying to establish the basis for a rule that would nerf Smolensk?  I'm with you on stomping that abomination, but this won't do it.

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7 minutes ago, ASCHEER_3055 said:

Yes I believe ships with radar could shoot from smoke....but if a ship has Smoke , Radar , and Torps isn't that giving him a big advantage over 

ships with know Smoke?  Every ship is able to put up smoke in RL

Other than some ship names, resembelances etc, this game doesn't have much to do with real life.  If you start comparing things to reality, everything starts falling apart.  From the time it takes a BB to get moving from a stand still to the size of the maps and distances involved, very little matches up.

This is done in the name of balance and fun.  If they start making things "real life" this game turns into a simulator and things get really boring, very fast.

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Simply put, this is already there. DDs have a smoke firing penalty of about 2.5km. CLs have about double that minimum. While not always useful, a BB rushing smoke is going to ruin your day if you don't stop firing.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

this game turns into a simulator and things get really boring very fast.

Harpoon player, perhaps?  :fish_sleep:

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

Other than some ship names, resembelances etc, this game doesn't have much to do with real life.  If you start comparing things to reality, everything starts falling apart.  From the time it takes a BB to get moving from a stand still to the size of the maps and distances involved, very little matches up.

This is done in the game balance and fun.  If they start making things "real life" this game turns into a simulator and things get really boring very fast.

I agree with that it is a game and they try to keep things some what balanced 

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9 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

If we're arguing for a realistic approach then does that mean CVs should be massively buffed?

Yes, let a CV being in battle detect even DDs from a massive distance! I'm sure that spotting mechanics no longer really existing will go over well! :Smile_trollface:

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5 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Yeah.  That one makes me wonder.  And RL smoke is subject to weather conditions. 

Gotta fall back on the truth that this isn't a simulation.  It's a game with realistic flavor.

Are you trying to establish the basis for a rule that would nerf Smolensk?  I'm with you on stomping that abomination, but this won't do it.

Do CVs have a smoke system?  I don't really know.

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I will take smoke firing ships over what we use to have in game aka open water stealth firing... If you dont like smoke ships you would have hated OWSF.

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1 hour ago, JediMasterDraco said:

If we're arguing for a realistic approach then does that mean CVs should be massively buffed?

Yes, massively buffed, be 100 miles from their target, and have a 30-45 minute turnaround on strike aircraft sorties, and burn like Tiki torches when damaged.

1 attack in a 20 minute match? Yeah, I could live with that.:Smile_teethhappy:

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1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Harpoon player, perhaps?  :fish_sleep:

I prefer good ol' Fleet Command for a sim. The variable time scale settings speed things up nicely. Of course, an Aegis-defended CVBG under a massive swarm attack with auto-engage active at 4x speed will usually crash the game. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by TF77

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