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commodore_torakula

Debate: which is the best non-premium T8 DD?

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....and i'd like to apologize for the TLDR of this post in advance, people....I would've written a shorter introduction, but I didn't have time....

....In the current meta and with ranked kicking off it's 14th season....Let's try to come to a consensus on this....

....I'll give you my full take on my experience of these ships:

....With the DWT-using PA line, I deferred to my instincts as a DD/BB main who plays DDs for the adrenaline and thought--nope, I'm not going down that tech tree...so: no idea....in fact the feel of being targeted by a PA with DWTs is alien to me--sort of like being the wingman in the old "Thatch Weave" in the days of the Hellcats and Wildcats....tough call there.

....The Kagero is my most played ship....Her stealth is excellent, her 'pedoes are long range dump-trucks of battlewagon annihilating little bastids....Her drawbacks are, like most of the IJN DDs, a slow reload on the arty and that she can only area-denial in the caps so much....I usually load the TRB, which throws off some players because they're not necessarily aware I can't provide smoke for the big dogs.

....With the Akizuki, again, I prefer a stealth-torp feel and the "bravery of being out of range" as a DD so I've only test-conned the Akis on the PTS....I don't feel like I'm ready to buy one or fxp one on that fork of the IJN DD line....I will say, though, during the 13th season of ranked using a Z-46/Kagero platoon of course the Akis and the T9 Kitakazes and T10 Harugumos were real trouble for me to deal with.

....As the French DD line has debuted recently, I have to say I didn't like the lack of smoke in the first few DDs....I took a Jaguar into a random with a pal on the New Dawn map and got dusted off immediately....The French DDs do not look like something I'll be good with until I practice in coop with them more....so much for fans of the Le Fantasque.

....As for the KM, I have the aforementioned Z-46 but have not played her very much apart from my foray into the 13th season....so with respect to the Z-23, again--I'd have to call "limited data sample" on that one....My go-to KM DD is the T-22 and I have a nice T-61 that's really a Gaeda with more stealth and quicker loading fish, but not the 150mm upgrade that the Gaeda has as an option for the MB.

....as for the VMF of the USSR/Russian DDs, I have never liked the feel of being a sort of cap-bully with arty that's meant to slice other DDs to pieces up front....I have experience of the Kiev and the Ognevoi in randoms that makes me conclude that with the heal buff they got some months back, I'd say I'd prefer the Kiev now for random/ranked, but pre-heal buff the Ognevoi was also good....2 things: the ballistics and the reloads on those two are like [edited] light sabers being tossed and everyone is telekinetic....You can barely miss when you're in tight going smash-mouth to another DD....the Ognevoi has that other weird wrinkle in that you can have a different torpedo suite with one hull or the other....So my vote there for what I'd want in the 14th season is Kiev.

....The Benson is, for me, a good platoon with the Kagero--you've got good smoke and a 10-torp spread to work with, so that really all you have to compensate for is the weird trajectories on those 127mm rifles that can be hard to walk-in at distance....She's near the top of my list among all these boats.

....Lastly, the Lightning is, in a way, my brand new toy....I finally fxp'd past the Jervis because I never like that one's specs....I did that today and took the Lighting back into coop--having barely tested her on the last time the PTS was up....so stay tuned to my full take on that puppy.

....So?....the verdict?....I *would've taken a Kiev into ranked in the next few days and see what else I might want to riff on herein.  *[desmo spotted this error on my part]

....Your thoughts?

World of Warships 12_3_2019 8_18_11 PM.png

Edited by commodore_torakula
incorrectly specified tier/type of ship

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When facing a tech tree tier VIII DD, I typically find that the Hsienyang is the one that I’d least like to see in my vicinity. Take that for whatever it’s worth to you. 

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First off I am puzzled at how your going to expect good things from Lightning if you had to skip Jarvis!? Tiers 5-8 in that line feel relatively similar, and if your having too much trouble then that line might not be for you. Or at least perhaps not right now anyway, Royal Navy DDs have been deemed as one of those lines where they either work really well or else are completely terrible depending on how the play style of a given player using them is. I have done well in them as my play style is suitable for them, but yours might either need work or else could be incompatible.

If your looking for a good non premium tier 8 DD, the Benson has remained a very solid choice. True the gun dispersion takes some getting used to, but it’s turret traverse is very fast, fast Reload of shells, torpedoes are decent ranged and reloads are acceptable. Benson also has nice mobility, great AA, reasonable Concealment, USN smoke is best in the game, and hull durability is reasonable. And it has the added bonus of the USN being good with ASW, so that could translate into the in game version once subs are added in, so a possible extra perk for later.

Personally I have found Kagero to be a master of stealth and mass destruction in tier 8 that is only exceeded by her premium version the HSF Harekaze. Only problem the non premium Kagero has is if aircraft find her, fighting them off can be a bit more challenging. Hence the reason I use Harekaze with 100mm dual purpose guns and moth balled Kagero after many battles in Kagero.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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5 minutes ago, TheCompGuy25 said:

Benson is good but there is a certain thrill to TRB Kag.

I rather play akatsuki instead of kag and have nearly the same DPM as TRB kag while still having smokes.

Edited by Cpt_Cupcake
Grammar

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11 minutes ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

I rather play akatsuki instead of kag and have nearly the same DPM as TRB kag while still having smokes.

I do like Akat a lot too!

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4 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

First off I am puzzled at how your going to expect good things from Lightning if you had to skip Jarvis!? Tiers 5-8 in that line feel relatively similar, and if your having too much trouble then that line might not be for you. Or at least perhaps not right now anyway, Royal Navy DDs have been deemed as one of those lines where they either work really well or else are completely terrible depending on how the play style of a given player using them is. I have done well in them as my play style is suitable for them, but yours might either need work or else could be incompatible.

If your looking for a good non premium tier 8 DD, the Benson has remained a very solid choice. True the gun dispersion takes some getting used to, but it’s turret traverse is very fast, fast Reload of shells, torpedoes are decent ranged and reloads are acceptable. Benson also has nice mobility, great AA, reasonable Concealment, USN smoke is best in the game, and hull durability is reasonable. And it has the added bonus of the USN being good with ASW, so that could translate into the in game version once subs are added in, so a possible extra perk for later.

Personally I have found Kagero to be a master of stealth and mass destruction in tier 8 that is only exceeded by her premium version the HSF Harekaze. Only problem the non premium Kagero has is if aircraft find her, fighting them off can be a bit more challenging. Hence the reason I use Harekaze with 100mm dual purpose guns and moth balled Kagero after many battles in Kagero.

....Here's the thing about the Benson:....some people are going to go one way with her as far as AA capabilities are concerned, others are going to be like me and try out the hull option that gives her a better "belt" and durability and not bother with AA concerns or the missing turret.

....With respect to my polevalting over the Jervis* [note spelling]....for an option, I have to say that my impressions on the Lightning so far are that she's going to have to over rely on stealth and have a tough time staying hid....the concealment level and the angles on the fish are a tough call for how she stacks up against the Kagero, for example...as for the smoke, heaven knows I am an example of a DD skipper that'll smoke as a sort of panic-button and not pay a ton of attention to who is behind me as the spearpoint of the formation....I use that TRB in the Kag for a quick 16-torp spread to area deny or hassle close reds, regardless of type, etc.

....in a sense, what it boils down to is that my feel of the UK DD line looks this way:....the prem Campbeltown is excellent in my hands but the early ones in the tech tree are not really playable for me....The Vampire is another example of a fun ship to play, but then again that muddies the waters over the prem v. tech tree debate....TBH, I skipped the Jervis literally because when I saw her #s and such, I thought, "no way will I do well in that one".

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My vote is on lightning.

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le fantastique,learning how to not rely on smoke is excellent.

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Le Fantastic.....

When you farm battleships and chase them away.

When cruisers are now your free to AP the cruisers...

Now that the cap is nearly clear, bully the destroyer and your done...

Easy 100k and map control....

 

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Assuming you are playing to win, meaning gaining tactical advantage and map control and not farming damage.

The Lightening is the strongest of the tech tree DDs. It has all the tools to dominate cap zones. Which is what wins matches. 

  • Great concealment - only Kag is better and if the Kag gets that close to the lightning it is toast
  • Good Guns - On par with most other gun boats, only Akizuki is clearly superior
  • Multiple fast reloading smokes, give the ability to dictate when and how you engage in a fight
  • Long duration Hydro

2nd would be the Benson as it is a good all rounder and it's concealment gives it the edge over the other gun boats.

 

 

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4 hours ago, commodore_torakula said:

....Here's the thing about the Benson:....some people are going to go one way with her as far as AA capabilities are concerned, others are going to be like me and try out the hull option that gives her a better "belt" and durability and not bother with AA concerns or the missing turret.

....With respect to my polevalting over the Jervis* [note spelling]....for an option, I have to say that my impressions on the Lightning so far are that she's going to have to over rely on stealth and have a tough time staying hid....the concealment level and the angles on the fish are a tough call for how she stacks up against the Kagero, for example...as for the smoke, heaven knows I am an example of a DD skipper that'll smoke as a sort of panic-button and not pay a ton of attention to who is behind me as the spearpoint of the formation....I use that TRB in the Kag for a quick 16-torp spread to area deny or hassle close reds, regardless of type, etc.

....in a sense, what it boils down to is that my feel of the UK DD line looks this way:....the prem Campbeltown is excellent in my hands but the early ones in the tech tree are not really playable for me....The Vampire is another example of a fun ship to play, but then again that muddies the waters over the prem v. tech tree debate....TBH, I skipped the Jervis literally because when I saw her #s and such, I thought, "no way will I do well in that one".

I run Benson with the B Hull, and use BFT skill that serves dual purpose of increasing my rate of fire and increases AA at the same time. Often a CV will get a little taste of your AA, see that you are a Benson (if they see you out side of smoke), then most CVs at this point will decide either to leave you alone or else they continue and lose some planes. The AA C hull is really only needed on Nicholas or Farragut if CVs have been rather common on a give day and your needing the extra AA. On Benson BB hull you can always can add and AA signal flags in addition to the BFT skill if the AA needs added power on bad day. Rest of the skill and upgrades I do as you might expect fir gunboat / torpedo boat DD, so while it will carry adequate AA you are by no means sacrificing anti ship performance for AA in a good normal Benson build.

And about Kagero sounds like your using it as many of us enjoy using it, which is with torpedo Reload Booster.

If you are wanting to become better with the British DDs, they often play as DD hunters, or ambush predators for larger warships. Their short duration smoke is a versatile tool that can be used to hide in while under air attacks, can be used to break line of sight with enemy ship and allow you to hopefully get away, or it can be used just long enough to set some fires on larger Warships. In order to best learn its tricks you do need to carry premium version of the British DD smoke as you need as many charges of it as possible and to use it as often as needed which can be often. And in doing so you also need premium version of the hydro to use while smoked to spot torpedoes, or it can be used to aid in spotting and sinking smoked DDs in the anti DD hunting role. You will also need to learn how to dodge enemy shells using the great RN DD agility along with their smaller hull profiles. Which all the characteristics of British DDs are what make them both powerful, but also demanding in how they need to be used.

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Lightning is my pick, but the 8k torps are painful to use at T8. Focus on staying alive and use those short smokes to your advantage.

Akizuki is good in Randoms.

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No smoke TRB Kagero max concealment with RPF as a commander skill.  You watch for the radar boats, know the range they have and stay at the edge of it so if they light you up, you can take a powder wait for the radar to expire and get stuck back in...  Piece of advice.. constantly be switching targets.. some player watch for detection numbers. get em tired of evading whats not there, and it can help keep them distracted and get them unfocused on what the need to pay attention to.

Many will go defensive right away and give ground.   Just many of the dirty tricks DD's can do oh so very well. A note of advice on TRB Boats.. one spread of torps per ship with you regular load but when you use TRB fire both rack right away and get TRB on cool down.. never hold TRB Racks unless your in a desperate situation.  Note both rack do not have to be fired at the same target.  Be aware that IJN torps have the longest spotted range so if they dodge the first rack odds a very poor for the second rack.  Often better to have two ships dodging torps.. most players don't pay attention to other then whats coming at them so they'll be waiting for the second rack and distracted.  For want of a nail....

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Gunboat dd is the only dd that is exciting to play. All the rest feel passive and the play is rather boring.

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14 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

No smoke TRB Kagero max concealment with RPF as a commander skill.  You watch for the radar boats, know the range they have and stay at the edge of it so if they light you up, you can take a powder wait for the radar to expire and get stuck back in...  Piece of advice.. constantly be switching targets.. some player watch for detection numbers. get em tired of evading whats not there, and it can help keep them distracted and get them unfocused on what the need to pay attention to.

Many will go defensive right away and give ground.   Just many of the dirty tricks DD's can do oh so very well. A note of advice on TRB Boats.. one spread of torps per ship with you regular load but when you use TRB fire both rack right away and get TRB on cool down.. never hold TRB Racks unless your in a desperate situation.  Note both rack do not have to be fired at the same target.  Be aware that IJN torps have the longest spotted range so if they dodge the first rack odds a very poor for the second rack.  Often better to have two ships dodging torps.. most players don't pay attention to other then whats coming at them so they'll be waiting for the second rack and distracted.  For want of a nail....

you also dont spot enemy dds to support your team and thus give the enemy an advantage. Greed over need sir.

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6 hours ago, CaliburxZero said:

My vote is on lightning.

Surprised I had to look this far down to find Lightning.

 

Lightning is easily the best tier 8 tech tree DD.

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7 hours ago, commodore_torakula said:

....In the current meta and with ranked kicking off it's 14th season

....So?....the verdict?....I'll take a Kiev into ranked in the next few days and see what else I might want to riff on herein....she wins.

....Your thoughts?

You are going to be sorely disappointed when you bring Kiev to Ranked Season 14.  Because it is Tier 10, not Tier 8.

I am surprised no one has mentioned that, yet.

6 hours ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

I rather play akatsuki instead of kag and have nearly the same DPM as TRB kag while still having smokes.

Akatsuki is Tier 7.  I assume you meant Akizuki?

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Really?  No votes on Lo Yang?

Edited by Ace_04
Oops.....just realized the title said tech tree. Too early in the morning....

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