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Zaydin

WG needs to stop the 'Early Access' claptrap with new lines

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Because it leads to a combination of burning players out with RNG trying to gain early access to the new lines and also means that there's poor data samples for balancing.

I.E, the lower tier Italian CAs being unpolished [edited] while apparently the tier 9 and 10 were where the good Italian cruisers were hiding, with the tier 9 benefiting from the buffs to SAP shells for the lower tier ships.

Just go back to the new way of introducing new lines: That is, letting us just research them from the start. If you are that desperate to pad things out, hold back the tier 10 until the next update but enough Early Access.

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I'm not sure about getting rid of it entirely, but I think a move to a method like they used for the RN carriers, where you got early access ships from a measurable grind rather than purely RNG, would probably help things out a lot.

I do like the choice of giving out Sansonetti via a collection reward though, that's a nice middle-ground.

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12 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

I'm not sure about getting rid of it entirely, but I think a move to a method like they used for the RN carriers, where you got early access ships from a measurable grind rather than purely RNG, would probably help things out a lot.

I do like the choice of giving out Sansonetti via a collection reward though, that's a nice middle-ground.

That gets undercut by the fact that you can only get collection elements from the "Resolute and Rapid' containers and not from daily containers like other collections. Meant to be another coal sink since they have already said the containers will end up in the Armory for coal in the near future after 0.8.10/the Italian arc ends.

If they want us to grind during these events, give us enticing rewards that doesn't require us to god damn gamble and/or shell out real money for lootboxes. I.E, I ground out the free permacamos for the tier 5-8 Italian CAs since those would have value once I worked on the line. Hell, being able to grind out tokens to exchange for port slots would be a pretty enticing reward since one port slot costs at minimum 2 dollars of doubloons since you can't buy less than 500 doubloons.

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The only way WG will stop 'early access' events, is if the playerbase all suddenly stopped spending money on it. And that won't happen.

If people keep buying, WG will keep selling. They ultimately are a business, and money talks loudest.

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2 hours ago, Zaydin said:

That gets undercut by the fact that you can only get collection elements from the "Resolute and Rapid' containers and not from daily containers like other collections. ...

Actually, only about half of the collections have had items drop from daily containers ... the other half, including Resolute & Rapid, have only been available from the event containers or via missions.  It just seems like it's the normal way since most of the recent ones have been subscription collections.

Collections.jpg.c94233539af2b9827bf1aa4db1a09a58.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by DocWalker
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3 hours ago, Zaydin said:

burning players out with RNG trying to gain early access to the new lines

If they weren't so impatient and greedy, they wouldn't be burning themselves out. Anyone who pays money to attain something which they KNOW can later be had for free is, in my opinion, foolish to say the least. Doubly so when it's a new line with a strange new wrinkle that hasn't been seen before (e.g. British DD with no speed boost, French DD with no smoke, and now Italian cruisers with the new SAP ammo and full-speed smoke). If all you care about is getting to T10 as fast as possible with the minimum of effort (i.e. trying to score a T8 unlock to minimise the FXP you have to burn), and this leads you to foolish spending decisions, maybe your attitude is the problem rather than RNG.

Italian Cruisers Part 1 was one of the most pleasant grinds I've had this year, and I'm no unicum.

3 hours ago, Landsraad said:

a method like they used for the RN carriers, where you got early access ships from a measurable grind rather than purely RNG

This was novel and very interesting. It was a refreshing change for the T4 (because CV no longer has T5) and T6, but the T8 was behind an unavoidable paywall (for me, it would have cost as much to buy crates for the tokens as it would a premium carrier; in the end I ground it out). I also think it would be difficult to balance such an event for four early release ships instead of three, which is probably why we haven't seen it since.

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42 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If they weren't so impatient and greedy, they wouldn't be burning themselves out. Anyone who pays money to attain something which they KNOW can later be had for free is, in my opinion, foolish to say the least. Doubly so when it's a new line with a strange new wrinkle that hasn't been seen before (e.g. British DD with no speed boost, French DD with no smoke, and now Italian cruisers with the new SAP ammo and full-speed smoke). If all you care about is getting to T10 as fast as possible with the minimum of effort (i.e. trying to score a T8 unlock to minimise the FXP you have to burn), and this leads you to foolish spending decisions, maybe your attitude is the problem rather than RNG.

Italian Cruisers Part 1 was one of the most pleasant grinds I've had this year, and I'm no unicum.

This was novel and very interesting. It was a refreshing change for the T4 (because CV no longer has T5) and T6, but the T8 was behind an unavoidable paywall (for me, it would have cost as much to buy crates for the tokens as it would a premium carrier; in the end I ground it out). I also think it would be difficult to balance such an event for four early release ships instead of three, which is probably why we haven't seen it since.

Calling others with a different opinion on something "foolish" is foolish itself. No need for that kind of talk.

IF you wish to grind and grind and grind through a line you hate because it is free that is cool. I mean it is pretty clear the ITL line was going to be bad and a grind nightmare for most. NO issue with that at all. Do your grind and get them free.

But if others prefer to ease the progression a bit and have things go faster through alternate means such as buying crates like I did and getting early missions (and the real intent behind the purchases was for the flags, camo, etc... NOT missions - I treat them as a bonus) that is cool too. I was "lucky" and got all 4 missions. After unlocking them I ground Amalfi (220K XP) to be ready for Brindisi when it arrived. The ITL T5-T7 ships are god awful to meh at best to me and of little interest. Glad I didn't have to grind through them, plus the T1-T4 just to get to T5, as well. The best ships of the line are T8, T9, and T10. I am glad I was able to get there so quick and avoid a long painful grind through the line in ships I dislike. Made the $ I spent well worth it to me.

To each their own. No need to call others names like foolish.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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4 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Because it leads to a combination of burning players out with RNG trying to gain early access to the new lines and also means that there's poor data samples for balancing.

They already have data samples before they put the ships in to the live game for people to try out.

And burnout is on the players, not the game.

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7 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

(and the real intent behind the purchases was for the flags, camo, etc... NOT missions - I treat them as a bonus)

Thing is, Admiral, you're a special case - and what I've quoted here proves it. You're going to buy the boxes anyway, missions or not. For you, that spending decision is NOT foolish - it's the way you roll. It's how you've budgeted your disposable income with respect to this game. 

I'm talking about the flipside of this - the people who spam the hell out of the boxes just to try and get the unlock missions, and treat the rest of the content as if it weren't even there.  They're the same type of people who at Christmas buy 25 mega crates, pull thousands in coal and doubloons plus a dozen premium ships, and still whine like upset two-year-olds and cry foul because they didn't get a Belfast.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Anyone who pays money to attain something which they KNOW can later be had for free is, in my opinion, foolish to say the least

 

4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Thing is, Admiral, you're a special case - and what I've quoted here proves it. You're going to buy the boxes anyway, missions or not. For you, that spending decision is NOT foolish - it's the way you roll. It's how you've budgeted your disposable income with respect to this game. 

I'm talking about the flipside of this - the people who spam the hell out of the boxes just to try and get the unlock missions, and treat the rest of the content as if it weren't even there.  They're the same type of people who at Christmas buy 25 mega crates, pull thousands in coal and doubloons plus a dozen premium ships, and still whine like upset two-year-olds and cry foul because they didn't get a Belfast.

Fair enough BUT that isn't what you said in the post I responded to. Had you said what you did in the 2nd quote above vs the 1st one I would not have said anything. YOur 1st comment is general and implies anyone who even thinks about any way other than grinding and free. It lumped me in there as well as someone who say buys 5 or 10 in the hopes of getting one but can stop there vs buying and buying and buying….

Miscommunication and my apologies...

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"Money" and "Greed" and "Imbalance" are the wrong ways to be looking at this.

ALL GAMES NEED FRESH CONTENT TO SURVIVE/STAY RELEVENT. 

They create an entire wing of new ships and are trying to make that amount of content be/feel new for an extended period with an event.  Events evoke interest and attention, and they can turn "Hey, we added 10 new ships this patch" into "We've got an event where you can be the first to play the 10 new ships, complete with prizes and special rewards!" that lasts two months.

In game development under a constant update cycle, you scrape for every ounce of "fresh content" you can get.

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I'm ok with it. 

Saves me the FXP to T4, and having to buy and play the T4. I usually like to start new lines at T5, (if the T3 or 4 looks interesting, I can easily get it later) and so far, I have gotten at least the T5 (without getting additional containers) in every pre-release. (except RN DDs, I got the T6 but no T5)

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4 hours ago, Zaydin said:

I.E, the lower tier Italian CAs being unpolished [edited]

That is pure bunk. If you don't like the early release method then just don't participate and wait the week or two for the research method becomes active.

Also the only reason for burnout here is by the choice the individual makes.

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Just now, CAPTMUDDXX said:

Also the only reason for burnout here is by the choice the individual makes.

Exactly. I play my 4-5 games a day, resist playing WoWS when I have several hours in a row to game, and if I happen to grind something, great. If not, well, I was playing the game anyway.

No burnout here.

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2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Miscommunication and my apologies...

No probs. I would have thought the known fact that you buy boxes for the content first and foremost would have covered off that first quote, and I could also have been clearer. My bad.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

No burnout here.

None here either and I play many hours everyday as long as this nursing home's wifi doesn't go out like it did many times yesterday and overnight. 

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If you don't want to burnout, then don't.  That's on you as an individual.  Play as you normally do and don't worry about the early access boats - which you may just end up getting anyway by playing normally.  Got my Trento without even realizing it at first.

They all will eventually be available for research anyway.

I fail to see what the issue is here.

 

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3 hours ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

The only way WG will stop 'early access' events, is if the playerbase all suddenly stopped spending money on it. And that won't happen.

If people keep buying, WG will keep selling. They ultimately are a business, and money talks loudest.

Pretty much.  If the demand exists, and supplying it makes money...why would they stop?

 

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

Exactly. I play my 4-5 games a day, resist playing WoWS when I have several hours in a row to game, and if I happen to grind something, great. If not, well, I was playing the game anyway.

No burnout here.

I'm about the same for the moment.  Command:Modern Operations released yesterday, follow on to CMANO, and if you had the earlier game you got a 50% discount...

I'll be busy with that for a while when I have large blocks of time to play.  WoWS will get the short blocks at least for this patch.  

 

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Just now, agm114r said:

Pretty much.  If the demand exists, and supplying it makes money...why would they stop?

 

Exactly.

Don't like loot boxes and micro-transactions that are plaguing the industry?  Then stop buying them.  Otherwise, the buyer is part of the problem.

 

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5 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Because it leads to a combination of burning players out with RNG trying to gain early access to the new lines and also means that there's poor data samples for balancing.

I.E, the lower tier Italian CAs being unpolished [edited] while apparently the tier 9 and 10 were where the good Italian cruisers were hiding, with the tier 9 benefiting from the buffs to SAP shells for the lower tier ships.

Just go back to the new way of introducing new lines: That is, letting us just research them from the start. If you are that desperate to pad things out, hold back the tier 10 until the next update but enough Early Access.

I agree with @Landsraad that the best early access event was the RN CVs and agree with @Ensign_Cthulhu that it would be harder to do with 4 ships instead of 3, so that is probably why it hasn't come back. @DocWalker is completely correct that collection items only coming from event containers is not new. This has happened before and will happen again. @Ensign_Cthulhu has a point about the people that buy event containers ONLY to get the early access, which is a foolish idea. Although @AdmiralThunder and @Ensign_Cthulhu agrees, that those who are buying the containers for the items in them and look on the early access as cherries on top are not the problem. The problem is people who are buying crates when there are MANY, MANY who get the info out that getting a mission is a small chance and you might not get one. Then those people who were unlucky, but were told that there is a chance you will be that unlucky, whine because they didn't get the early access ship they wanted when they could just grind to it like normal.

 

6 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

If you don't want to burnout, then don't.  That's on you as an individual.  Play as you normally do and don't worry about the early access boats - which you may just end up getting anyway by playing normally.  Got my Trento without even realizing it at first.

They all will eventually be available for research anyway.

I fail to see what the issue is here.

 

This^^^

Just playing the game will complete the Daily Chains and Directives. It's not like these are hard to do @Zaydin. See the threads below for details.

 

 

 

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I enjoyed the event, and oh wait it still going and im loving getting extra goodies for doing what i would do anyway. So how does one get burnt out playing a game they already plan to play? Also there is no requirement that you attempt to take part in the event. If you dont want to work on some missions thats fine, the ships will be released in time anyway.

 

5 hours ago, Zaydin said:

poor data samples for balancing.

 

5 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Just go back to the new way of introducing new lines: That is, letting us just research them from the start.

These two things kinda contradict each other. If they just released all ships up front then there would be no data samples for balancing at all from early release. Regardless of how they release new ship lines or classes, and no matter how good they are at coding. Rarely will things come out perfect. A small data sample is better then no data sample. 

I got 3 ships out of the early access with perma camos. Now maybe thats above average luck of the draw or normal, i dont know. As it was not hard to finish the 22 random bundles, most that gave some effort should at least of gotten 1.

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2 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Exactly.

Don't like loot boxes and micro-transactions that are plaguing the industry?  Then stop buying them.  Otherwise, the buyer is part of the problem.

 

People who don't like them not buying them would be great. Problem is, around here some of the people who don't like them are whining and crying to the people who do like them to stop it. Sorry, if I value the boxes, I will buy them whether someone else likes them or not. I did not buy Italian boxes and I will not buy R&R boxes as my disposable income is slated for other things. I'm very likely to buy Santa boxes if they are similar to last year. Other boxes in the future I will buy or not depending on if I value them enough to put disposable income to them or not.

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

People who don't like them not buying them would be great. Problem is, around here some of the people who don't like them are whining and crying to the people who do like them to stop it. Sorry, if I value the boxes, I will buy them whether someone else likes them or not. I did not buy Italian boxes and I will not buy R&R boxes as my disposable income is slated for other things. I'm very likely to buy Santa boxes if they are similar to last year. Other boxes in the future I will buy or not depending on if I value them enough to put disposable income to them or not.

Agree completely.

My comment was targeting those who complain about micro-transactions but also buy them compulsively.  They know who they are...

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3 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Agree completely.

My comment was targeting those who complain about micro-transactions but also buy them compulsively.  They know who they are...

Oh yeah. I agree.

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