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Canadian_Reaper

Why are so many Shima's using 20km torps?

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Hey All

 

Not really an important question, but I'm curious if I missed something- I seem to be seeing a lot more Shima's these days than I used to, and there are a lot of them that seem to be back to using the 20km torps.

Did they buff them, is there some other reason? Or have I just had an oddly weird RNG streak with the MM?

Edited by Canadian_Reaper

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Because long range == better, right? How can i be a l33t XxXsniperXxX if I don't use the longest range weapons I can get? Bigger numbers, so they must be the best and only the really good players use the best, right?

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9 minutes ago, Lert said:

Because long range == better, right? How can i be a l33t XxXsniperXxX if I don't use the longest range weapons I can get?

LOL OK, maybe it's just odd RNG and I keep seeing new players in them. 

I don't have Shima myself , just thought everyone used the 12km torps, and recently it just seems like I see a lot of Shimas on both side just making torpedo soup like when the game came out.

 

Not really an issue , makes then far easier to spot, was just curious if they'd had a buff.

 

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Maybe because the 20km torps are the stock Shima torps, and most players aren't willing to dump 30k free exp to skip to the better 12km torps due to saving up free exp for ships like Friesland?

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You see,  I have the opposite problem, I've been seeing tons of shimas using the 8km torps running torp acceleration ever since a certain CC ran a meme build...

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2 hours ago, Canadian_Reaper said:

Hey All

 

Not really an important question, but I'm curious if I missed something- I seem to be seeing a lot more Shima's these days than I used to, and there are a lot of them that seem to be back to using the 20km torps.

Did they buff them, is there some other reason? Or have I just had an oddly weird RNG streak with the MM?

Likely an RNG streak of newer players in terms of having just unlocked Shima - your forced to use the garbage 20 km torps till you gain the xp for the less terrible 12 km option unless you use free xp - that most won't because Wargaming over-inflated the price of the free xp ships (the old 750k price tag is actually equivalent to the shop price of the ships, or at least closer) for no good reason. 

So, your stuck with people lobbing torpedoes that sure, have a long range - and are spotted 2.5 km out, which WITHOUT  Vigilance or TASM gives a base reaction time of 15 seconds to notice and start turning, let alone any captain with those 2 things. For comparison while it may have 1 less launcher, slightly lower damage but about 30 second faster reload, Gearing's 16.5 km option leaves just under 8 seconds to react, and the 12 km IJN option leaves about 9 1/2 seconds. With the joke being that while Shima kinda earns a slight nerf for having 3x5 tubes - every other nations including some ships at the same tier as it are around the same or about two tenths of a second off Kami clones reaction time. 

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Nope. It's people watching King of the Sea IX on YouTube.

20km torps is the new strategy for competitive for Shimas.  It's actually being explicitly talked about by the commentators of "Oh, Shima using 20km torpedoes! Looks like we're gonna have a lot of potatoes doing the same!"

it's a Monkey See/Monkey Do thing.

(with apologies to RogueMonkey)

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4 hours ago, LAnybody said:

Nope. It's people watching King of the Sea IX on YouTube.

20km torps is the new strategy for competitive for Shimas.  It's actually being explicitly talked about by the commentators of "Oh, Shima using 20km torpedoes! Looks like we're gonna have a lot of potatoes doing the same!"

it's a Monkey See/Monkey Do thing.

(with apologies to RogueMonkey)

Really??? 

The competitive players are trying this? I'll have to check this out.

 

Thanks!

 

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It’s likely because of radar, so some DD players like the idea of longer ranged torpedoes so that even the Moskava / Stalingrad Radar can not reach them. Personally though I prefer torpedoes 10-12k  for the most part as you can still reach in past radar much of the time, but you don’t Sacrifice torpedo running speed as much as you do with the super long ranged torpedoes.

The 20km torpedoes might also be seeing more use from players fearfulness of CV aircraft, so they simply use 20km to try and attack targets with while the Shimakaze stays close to allied AA ships. Or else damages or destroys several allied ships along allied battle line, you are never quite certain exactly what some clueless DD players are thinking. 

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The 20km torps have a 2.5 km surface detect vs the 12 km torps with 1.7km detect which makes a huge difference in the % of torps landed. The shima has a terrible torp reload which is why i run 12km torps and typically only launch on targets whos broadside I have and typically in the 5.9 - 6.2 km range. Then its either a kill or a miss as sometimes they just pick the right time to move but its not uncommon for me to get multi dev strikes in the shima while launching as few torps as possible. 

shot-19.10.27_15.22.50-0561.jpg

shot-19.10.27_15.22.58-0629.jpg

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:57 AM, LAnybody said:

Nope. It's people watching King of the Sea IX on YouTube.

20km torps is the new strategy for competitive for Shimas.  It's actually being explicitly talked about by the commentators of "Oh, Shima using 20km torpedoes! Looks like we're gonna have a lot of potatoes doing the same!"

it's a Monkey See/Monkey Do thing.

(with apologies to RogueMonkey)

As some one who has played in the tournament and done well enough to participate in the final server clash twice, not all Shima runs 20s.  I ran 12km with legendary upgrade quite well.

On 11/15/2019 at 4:55 PM, Canadian_Reaper said:

Really??? 

The competitive players are trying this? I'll have to check this out.

 

Thanks!

 

There is a purpose behind it, and it’s not really about getting consistent torp hits.  The idea is to force ships to maneuver to avoid torps.  This can push ships out of position, or expose broadside shots to the teams major AP threats.  I still prefer the 12s.

15 hours ago, Capt_Sassypants said:

Im using the 20km torps with the speed booster for 16km torps at 67kts. There's way too much radar at tier 10 and cv's will wreck you. You need the range to survive sometimes. 

Shimakaze is hands down the best DD to work around radar due to its speed, narrow profile, acceleration characteristics, and its small caliber AA and other modules love to suck up shells that would otherwise remove HP from your ship.  As someone that regularly runs F3 on Yugumo with TRB you are incorrect about radar and CVs.  Wait for an opening and strike decisively, it’s better than the chuck and pray strategy of inflicting damage with the 20s.

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I wouldn't even bother with the 20s without TA, but I'd much rather run the 12s and free up the 2 points.  Or keep the TA on the 12s and have some fast 9.6km torps.  Radar can be worked around pretty easily if you know what you are doing.  My guess is the prevalence of the 20s right now is due to players who have just reached the Shima and either don't have the exp to unlock the others or think the 20s are a low risk/high reward option.  I know when I first got Shima I was in awe of the idea of 20km torps.  At least until I had used them for a few games and didn't hit a damn thing and did some research to figure out why.

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I like running the 20km torps with TA as well.  The extra 4 km range seems to give them a little more utility for area denial.  I have the legendary mod but have not made myself effective enough with it yet to use in a competitive setting.  

My biggest issue atm is figuring out how to counter all the klebers that none can seem to kill when you spot them.  The just run me down with impunity.  

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On 11/21/2019 at 1:42 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

 

Shimakaze is hands down the best DD to work around radar due to its speed, narrow profile, acceleration characteristics, and its small caliber AA and other modules love to suck up shells that would otherwise remove HP from your ship.  As someone that regularly runs F3 on Yugumo with TRB you are incorrect about radar and CVs.  Wait for an opening and strike decisively, it’s better than the chuck and pray strategy of inflicting damage with the 20s.

I never liked the F3's on the Yugumo, but to each their own. 

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On 11/14/2019 at 7:31 PM, RyuuohD_NA said:

Maybe because the 20km torps are the stock Shima torps, and most players aren't willing to dump 30k free exp to skip to the better 12km torps due to saving up free exp for ships like Friesland?

Will say one thing for the 20km torpedoes, when used in Ranked and well launched they certainly seem to have devastating effects on the enemy ships and teams. I have been floored at Rank 12 anyway, and had just gotten by Shimakaze so decided why not give the 20km torpedoes a try to see how they would perform and to cut down on the free XP cost. Well surprisingly I was able to quickly pay regular XP for my 12km torpedoes after the 20km torpedoes would hot one ship after the next right down enemy battle lines. Not sure how well such torpedoes work in other battle modes, but at least at the moment they have been wreaking havoc. Not bad when 2nd battle in Shimakaze I did 134k and multiple ships sunk with 20km torpedoes.

I do have 12km torpedoes mounted now, but those 20km torpedoes are still tempting me at times. Part of the reason why I did alright with 20km torps is using them to disrupt enemy movements as they would often take while evasive actions that could delay their progress in reaching meaningful positions by a couple minutes or more, or even change their minds and leave a flank and base alone. But I do recommend 12km torpedoes for more consistency in dealing damage and sinking ships.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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On 11/14/2019 at 8:05 PM, Canadian_Reaper said:

Did they buff them, is there some other reason? Or have I just had an oddly weird RNG streak with the MM?

I free xped to the 12 km and sold the 20 km torps. Thing is, I got curious and started playing around with 8km, 20km, and 12km. Now, I will jump in and run LU with different set ups. If I seem to be on a losing streak, I will change torps, and it seems to help (confirmation bias, likely). 

On 12/5/2019 at 5:53 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Will say one thing for the 20km torpedoes, when used in Ranked and well launched they certainly seem to have devastating effects on the enemy ships and teams.

That is something that I have not tried. I may. I have used F3s in a lot of prior seasons. I have used them exclusively in some seasons.  

The thing about the 20 km torps is to attack ships that have holed up behind an island.  Doesn't matter when they see them if they are not moving. 

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

I free xped to the 12 km and sold the 20 km torps. Thing is, I got curious and started playing around with 8km, 20km, and 12km. Now, I will jump in and run LU with different set ups. If I seem to be on a losing streak, I will change torps, and it seems to help (confirmation bias, likely). 

That is something that I have not tried. I may. I have used F3s in a lot of prior seasons. I have used them exclusively in some seasons.  

The thing about the 20 km torps is to attack ships that have holed up behind an island.  Doesn't matter when they see them if they are not moving. 

And 20km torps are great against the ships that are obviously doing long distance flanking where they will be traveling roughly in straight lines, but you would not or could not efficiently rush over to take advantage. The 20km can be good at slipping under Radar nets, air patrols, all while your team is one of the less helpful varieties. The list goes on, but have found that during weekends, holidays, or other times when schools are out and teams might be lower quality resulting in the need for longer torpedo reach.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1
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