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The_Hellequin

WG, You Need to Drop the Co-op Mercy Rule

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The mercy rule in co-op was never a good thing, however, it was workable most of the time. Since the patch yesterday, the average co-op battle for me has lasted just over 5 minutes. That's it. By adding a ship to each side, you made it so that the 300 points the bots get vanishes in a blink of an eye.

 

Prior to the patch, my average co-op round lasted just over 10 minutes. By adding just 2 ships to the match, you've halved the time the battle lasts, causing people who main co-op battles(Of which I used to be one) to have to work even harder than they already did to complete directives, missions, and campaigns. My complaint/suggestion has more to do with those players than it does myself, I play all modes and just use co-op to chill out, now.

 

However, it is simply not fair to those who main Co-op battles to have to work so much harder to complete the various things the game has to offer. Should it be more challenging for them, since, to be fair, they play easy mode WoWs? Yes, it should be, but when battles end in 5 minutes, virtually no-one on the human team has much of a chance to accomplish anything, meaning they have to work even harder and it takes much, much longer, to accomplish anything.

 

I support those players calling for the dropping of the mercy rule in Co-op, these battles should not end until time runs out, or all ships have been sunk. At the very least, double the amount of points the teams start with, from 300 to 600. Give Co-op mains a fighting chance, Wargaming. They play a ton of battles, and many of them are among your biggest spenders.

 

Take care of your whales, Wargaming, they take care of you.

 

Peace, out.

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They announced yesterday that they're already looking into possible ways to address the "mercy rule problem" in Co-op, whether that's removing it in that mode, adjusting points lost for each ship lost, or something else.

 

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8 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

However, it is simply not fair to those who main Co-op battles to have to work so much harder to complete the various things the game has to offer.

If you want fair you are in the wrong place. The victory conditions are fine as they are and apply to random also.

However!

I suggest that for co op  teams should be 12 v 12 and there be only 1 victory condition and only 1. The winner is the team that eliminates all of the opponents before time expires. For the human team if any enemy shift is surviving when time expires the human team loses.

No points, no capture objectives just sink them all. 

That gives every human player the opportunity to maximize their damage done XP and eliminates the battle ending quickly.

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11 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

They announced yesterday that they're already looking into possible ways to address the "mercy rule problem" in Co-op, whether that's removing it in that mode, adjusting points lost for each ship lost, or something else.

 

I do recall seeing something about that, I just felt that I'd explain how myself and many feel, without all the "whaaawhaaa" that we see on the forums. Taking the time to clearly explain something usually helps get it taken care of, facts over opinions and suppositions.

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22 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

The mercy rule in co-op was never a good thing, however, it was workable most of the time. Since the patch yesterday, the average co-op battle for me has lasted just over 5 minutes. That's it. By adding a ship to each side, you made it so that the 300 points the bots get vanishes in a blink of an eye.

Prior to the patch, my average co-op round lasted just over 10 minutes. By adding just 2 ships to the match, you've halved the time the battle lasts, causing people who main co-op battles(Of which I used to be one) to have to work even harder than they already did to complete directives, missions, and campaigns. My complaint/suggestion has more to do with those players than it does myself, I play all modes and just use co-op to chill out, now.

However, it is simply not fair to those who main Co-op battles to have to work so much harder to complete the various things the game has to offer. Should it be more challenging for them, since, to be fair, they play easy mode WoWs? Yes, it should be, but when battles end in 5 minutes, virtually no-one on the human team has much of a chance to accomplish anything, meaning they have to work even harder and it takes much, much longer, to accomplish anything.

I support those players calling for the dropping of the mercy rule in Co-op, these battles should not end until time runs out, or all ships have been sunk. At the very least, double the amount of points the teams start with, from 300 to 600. Give Co-op mains a fighting chance, Wargaming. They play a ton of battles, and many of them are among your biggest spenders.

Take care of your whales, Wargaming, they take care of you.

 

Peace, out.

No, they don't.

Leave things as it.  Let the battles end more quickly and move on to the next battle.

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29 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

The mercy rule in co-op was never a good thing, however, it was workable most of the time. Since the patch yesterday, the average co-op battle for me has lasted just over 5 minutes. That's it. By adding a ship to each side, you made it so that the 300 points the bots get vanishes in a blink of an eye.

 

Prior to the patch, my average co-op round lasted just over 10 minutes. By adding just 2 ships to the match, you've halved the time the battle lasts, causing people who main co-op battles(Of which I used to be one) to have to work even harder than they already did to complete directives, missions, and campaigns. My complaint/suggestion has more to do with those players than it does myself, I play all modes and just use co-op to chill out, now.

 

However, it is simply not fair to those who main Co-op battles to have to work so much harder to complete the various things the game has to offer. Should it be more challenging for them, since, to be fair, they play easy mode WoWs? Yes, it should be, but when battles end in 5 minutes, virtually no-one on the human team has much of a chance to accomplish anything, meaning they have to work even harder and it takes much, much longer, to accomplish anything.

 

I support those players calling for the dropping of the mercy rule in Co-op, these battles should not end until time runs out, or all ships have been sunk. At the very least, double the amount of points the teams start with, from 300 to 600. Give Co-op mains a fighting chance, Wargaming. They play a ton of battles, and many of them are among your biggest spenders.

 

Take care of your whales, Wargaming, they take care of you.

 

Peace, out.

24 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

They announced yesterday that they're already looking into possible ways to address the "mercy rule problem" in Co-op, whether that's removing it in that mode, adjusting points lost for each ship lost, or something else.

 

This ^^^

 

Here is Fem's reply from another thread. https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/204618-stop-ruining-coops-for-us-again-9x9-joke/

 

23 hours ago, Femennenly said:

Heyo Co-op Captains.

We've heard you, the situation known as the "Mercy Rule" is currently being investigated by the Dev team.

Please note that changes rarely happen instantly, and while the team is looking into ways to resolve this concern it may be a little until we can give you details on how we intend to fix this concern.

It is on our minds and hopefully we will have an update in a Dev Blog in the near future.

Fem, 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

If you want fair you are in the wrong place. The victory conditions are fine as they are and apply to random also.

However!

I suggest that for co op  teams should be 12 v 12 and there be only 1 victory condition and only 1. The winner is the team that eliminates all of the opponents before time expires. For the human team if any enemy shift is surviving when time expires the human team loses.

No points, no capture objectives just sink them all. 

That gives every human player the opportunity to maximize their damage done XP and eliminates the battle ending quickly.

Normally, I don't like this sort of "steel cage match" way of thinking.  But I could see it for coop, I suppose.  Enemy bots don't care about capping and if they do take a domination mode cap, it's usually by accident not intent.  And I don't think that I've ever seen an enemy bot capture a Standard mode base.  They always seem to sail out of the cap before the timer expires.

So if all that's true, it almost seems to justify not bothering with domination or epicenter modes.  Maybe just have all coop battles be Standard mode.  Why?  For the sake of allowing the player team to have a way to win if they're behind on points otherwise.  There should always be a second path to victory, same as in PvP.    Otherwise, if the player team is WAY behind on points with seemingly no chance of winning, the remaining players might just exit the battle rather than fight it to the end.  But having a second path to victory gives the remaining players a reason to hang around and try to win that way.

 

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I am not seeing huge numbers of mercy rule finishes.

Every single round I've played in co-op the last 2 days has been a mercy rule finish. That's roughly 25 rounds.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Enemy bots don't care about capping

They do now! I saw it in almost every co op battle tier 6 to 10 I have played since yesterday.

 

6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

For the sake of allowing the player team to have a way to win if they're behind on points otherwise.  There should always be a second path to victory, same as in PvP.

No there is no need for a second path. There are no points. Those pleading for the unneeded change want only to win, destroy everything and maximize their damage caused XP. My suggestion gives them exactly that. Destroy them all or lose. No strategy required, they don't want it any way and winning on points requires strategy.

They could do the same for random by eliminating capture points altogether and change ship points to 1 HP equals 1 game point and barring anything else the winner is the team with the highest HP count even if no ships are sunk on either side.

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2 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

When I need wins though, I like the matches to end fast. 

Then kill faster!

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13 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I am not seeing huge numbers of mercy rule finishes.

me neither, 2 out of 18 coop games yesterday ended to the mercy rule.

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2 minutes ago, b101uk said:

me neither, 2 out of 18 coop games yesterday ended to the mercy rule.

A lot of the mercy endings I have seen have been in CV matches. Do you really want to spend another five minutes chasing that bot CV down for very little experience except for those that are close enough to be in on the kill?

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14 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

They do now! I saw it in almost every co op battle tier 6 to 10 I have played since yesterday.

 

No there is no need for a second path. There are no points. Those pleading for the unneeded change want only to win, destroy everything and maximize their damage caused XP. My suggestion gives them exactly that. Destroy them all or lose. No strategy required, they don't want it any way and winning on points requires strategy.

They could do the same for random by eliminating capture points altogether and change ship points to 1 HP equals 1 game point and barring anything else the winner is the team with the highest HP count even if no ships are sunk on either side.

There is ALWAYS a need for a second path to victory.  ALWAYS.

 

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50 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

I suggest that for co op  teams should be 12 v 12 and there be only 1 victory condition and only 1. The winner is the team that eliminates all of the opponents before time expires. For the human team if any enemy shift is surviving when time expires the human team loses.

Dear sweet Christ, NO.

It would be so easy for a single bot DD to go hide in the corner, unfindable and unkillable, unless someone were using RPF. Or you know where he is, but you're trying to chase a Podvoisky down half a map away in a New York, with your team ahead on points and fifteen seconds left to run.

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Please leave the mercy rule in, speeds up grinding things that need a win on a bunch of different ships. 

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1 minute ago, Ossiuum said:

Please leave the mercy rule in, speeds up grinding things that need a win on a bunch of different ships. 

I'll gladly take the 1 battle in 10 that takes a few minutes "too long" because the "mercy rule" is gone, over the 1 in 3 that end with 2 or 3 bots still afloat. 

I'm sick of having an enemy ship lined up... and the battle ends with shots in the air or torps in the water because another bot somewhere else on the map dies.

 

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

A lot of the mercy endings I have seen have been in CV matches. Do you really want to spend another five minutes chasing that bot CV down for very little experience except for those that are close enough to be in on the kill?

I don't mind chasing down the last couple of ships when all the other human players are dead, nor do I begrudge others closer doing it if they haven't died.

 

but chasing down the last couple of ships in coop is nothing new, while CV and their aircraft are XP milking cows if by luck you get one all to yourself.

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With the current point system, setting the starting point to 600 I think would be too high. Instead of the bot team hitting zero too fast, the human team would hit 1000 too fast. In the old 8v8 setup, upping it to 400 would have been fine. With the new 9v9, maybe 450 or 500 would do.

WG could also tweak things by tweaking the point system specifically for co-op. Swings for ship losses could be reduced as some have suggested, or they could even go more experimental by making it static regardless of class (i.e. any ship loss is +35/-25). Whatever happens, the numbers don't have to be wildly different.

Anyone who wants 12v12 co-op, especially with the current points system, has not played a lot of it to see why that would be a problem.

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Faster is better...... get out and go to next battle and farm some more....       There is nothing you are missing out on that can't be found in the next battle?   

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3 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

With the current point system, setting the starting point to 600 I think would be too high. Instead of the bot team hitting zero too fast, the human team would hit 1000 too fast. In the old 8v8 setup, upping it to 400 would have been fine. With the new 9v9, maybe 450 or 500 would do.

WG could also tweak things by tweaking the point system specifically for co-op. Swings for ship losses could be reduced as some have suggested, or they could even go more experimental by making it static regardless of class (i.e. any ship loss is +35/-25). Whatever happens, the numbers don't have to be wildly different.

Anyone who wants 12v12 co-op, especially with the current points system, has not played a lot of it to see why that would be a problem.

My suggestion has long been to simply reduce the points lost for losing a ship in Co-op.  

(Whether the coding for that is simple, I don't know, but the concept is simple.)

 

 

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1 minute ago, iRA6E said:

Faster is better...... get out and go to next battle and farm some more....       There is nothing you are missing out on that can't be found in the next battle?   

What good is getting to the next battle and the next battle faster, when the payout per battle is lower, and you're wasting the daily bonus on each ship with a low payout? 

 

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39 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

with your team ahead on points and fifteen seconds left to run.

There will be no points! If a bot hides then go find it! March or Die!

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