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freggo

9v9 and Mercy Rule Solution

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It is nice to see that the update came with some changes to CO-OP.

It shows that WG has not completely forgotten its existence.

However, the sudden death problem due to the mercy rule has not been resolved.

Instead of complaining I'd rather like to offer a solution for discussion:

If WG would reduce the number of points lost by the teams after a ship gets killed it would obviously take longer to run down the enemy's points basket. This should be easy to implement, even on a trial basis.

Yes, this means of course that we would have to hunt down every last CV in CO-OP; something I rather enjoy :-)

What do you all think about this ?

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The mercy rule in co-op can be a little annoying, but it is more than compensated by preventing 20 minute matches in co-op as that last CV bot is hunted down by your teammates who sometimes have to travel across the map in a 20 knot BB.  I can live with the mercy rule. 

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Just now, PrairiePlayer said:

The mercy rule in co-op can be a little annoying, but it is more than compensated by preventing 20 minute matches in co-op as that last CV bot is hunted down by your teammates who sometimes have to travel across the map in a 20 knot BB.  I can live with the mercy rule. 

I have to admit, that is a very good point. As much as I would like to farm all the bots, chasing down that last red bot in a Katori or Texas, would be a bit on the obnoxious side. 

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2 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have to admit, that is a very good point. As much as I would like to farm all the bots, chasing down that last red bot in a Katori or Texas, would be a bit on the obnoxious side. 

True. But WG could also change the bot CVs programming so when it is the last ship on the bot side, it heads to the nearest non-bot owned CAP. Or it seeks to ram the closest enemy (yes, bots all have RPF, even the planes). By that time it is probably just spamming single plane squadrons anyway.

Also, if there is a bot CV, there SHOULD also be a friendly CV afloat. He should be able to spot the bot CV and even do some damage.

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Chasing down the last bot from across the map might happen once in 20 games. Having the match end early when you are driving a BB, have finally reached the battle zone (about 3 1/2 minutes), and have gotten lined up on a fat juicy red BB only to have the game end as the shells are in the air, happens far more often and is far more frustrating. Doubling the bots points pool, or reducing the points subtracted would really help. As it is, the change to 9v9 accomplishes nothing. The games actually end faster because the is one more person out there farming HP off the bots and running the points pool down faster.

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In my play the last few days most of the mercy endings I have seen were after the eighth bot has been eliminated.

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Or you can cap out?

If a slow ship is close to an unturned cap and no one else is, then turning that is more productive than chasing an unspotted bot CV.

Just sayin’...

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Honestly, I think that all this hand wringing over the mercy rule is foolish.  So the battle ends early?  Let me reword it.  The battle ended QUICKLY.  And you can get on to the next battle, rather than wasting a whole bunch of time chasing some bot CV.  I would VASTLY rather just get on to the next battle over chasing the last remaining bot ship that's half a map away!!!  But some people have such shallow minds that they can't see beyond, "one more enemy ship, must finish him off", and are incapable of seeing the value in just ending the battle then and there and moving onto the next battle.

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Honestly, I think that all this hand wringing over the mercy rule is foolish.  So the battle ends early?  Let me reword it.  The battle ended QUICKLY.  And you can get on to the next battle, rather than wasting a whole bunch of time chasing some bot CV.  I would VASTLY rather just get on to the next battle over chasing the last remaining bot ship that's half a map away!!!  But some people have such shallow minds that they can't see beyond, "one more enemy ship, must finish him off", and are incapable of seeing the value in just ending the battle then and there and moving onto the next battle.

It depends on personal priorities of course.

Some prefer high battle counts, others prefer to finish a job all the way; and adding to the damage and kill count.

We are living in a time where we prefer fast food over a quality healthy meal and thanks to Youtube have the attention span of a 4 year old on a cookie high (guilty myself and I am the opposite age of that kid's).

Personally I am the type that enjoys a job well done and completed. If I see a CV in the game I plan my moves so that during the end game I am in a position to quickly dispatch that juicy XP laden carrier. Naturally it depends on map and ship in use. If I am grinding my New York I'm happy if I make it even near a red ship in time :-)

 

 

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5 minutes ago, freggo said:

It depends on personal priorities of course.

Some prefer high battle counts, others prefer to finish a job all the way; and adding to the damage and kill count.

We are living in a time where we prefer fast food over a quality healthy meal and thanks to Youtube have the attention span of a 4 year old on a cookie high (guilty myself and I am the opposite age of that kid's).

Personally I am the type that enjoys a job well done and completed. If I see a CV in the game I plan my moves so that during the end game I am in a position to quickly dispatch that juicy XP laden carrier. Naturally it depends on map and ship in use. If I am grinding my New York I'm happy if I make it even near a red ship in time :-)

 

 

But the job is done when the mission goals have been completed.  Those are the rules of the game.  If you complete one of the mission goals before you've sunk every last enemy ship, the job is still done.  The problem here is that you are denigrating the other mission goals in favor of your desire to kill every last enemy ship and hiding that desire under a cloak of trying to finish the job, when the job was actually already done when your team completed one of the other mission goals.

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48 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Honestly, I think that all this hand wringing over the mercy rule is foolish.  So the battle ends early?  Let me reword it.  The battle ended QUICKLY.  And you can get on to the next battle, rather than wasting a whole bunch of time chasing some bot CV.  I would VASTLY rather just get on to the next battle over chasing the last remaining bot ship that's half a map away!!!  But some people have such shallow minds that they can't see beyond, "one more enemy ship, must finish him off", and are incapable of seeing the value in just ending the battle then and there and moving onto the next battle.

"Just get to the next battle" means that the daily bonus, and any camo or flags used on that ship, were wasted.  I'm not looking for the next battle, I'm looking to have the most impact on and get the most payout from the battle I'm in right now.   There's no net value to be gained from moving to the next battle if the current battle loses at least as much off the results in the process. 

But of course, if someone wants to actually maximize their performance and their payout, that must be "shallow" and greedy and bloody-minded and whatever.  :Smile_sceptic:

More than once I've been yelled at in chat, and lost karma, for being the last player ship left afloat, with the red bot CV as the last enemy afloat, and taking my time to cap everything and then hunt down the CV.   And those players can shove it -- if they wanted to control how the battle ended, they should have managed to remain afloat against stinking AI bots.  I'm going to get the payout for all those caps, AND the payout for killing the CV, and then post the massive damage 3 or 6 kill game to the "best Co-Op battles" thread in the PVE section. 

 

I'll gladly deal with the 1 battle in 10 that goes a minute or two longer because there's no "mercy rule", to eliminate the 1 battle in 3  that cuts off early with 2 or 3 red ships still afloat and the entire team borked on XP and credits. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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3 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

More than once I've been yelled at in chat, and lost karma, for being the last player ship left afloat, with the red bot CV as the last enemy afloat, and taking my time to cap everything and then hunt down the CV.   And those players can shove it -- if they wanted to control how the battle ended, they should have managed to remain afloat against stinking AI bots.  I'm going to get the payout for all those caps, AND the payout for killing the CV, and then post the massive damage 3 or 6 kill game to the "best Co-Op battles" thread in the PVE section.

Played Bogue like that late at night...

Bogue is a tad slow taking three caps.

I considered raking in those points my reward for giving a win to players who died so fast they left me alone fighting 4-8 bots.

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I can't tell you how many times I did not reach my goal of 300 stars for naval battles was because of this rule. As a small clan we do try to compete in this mode to gain us extra resources. But it is extremely frustrating to try to get that 300 stars in anything lower than a T8 US BB. I can do it in my German line most of the time and even in my T4 IJN Ichi on good days. When you have to obtain a certain goal within a battle and not a set number of battles then the mercy rule is very frustrating. I know I would not mind one bit to see it go. :Smile_honoring:

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7 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

"Just get to the next battle" means that the daily bonus, and any camo or flags used on that ship, were wasted.  I'm not looking for the next battle, I'm looking to have the most impact on and get the most payout from the battle I'm in right now.   There's no net value to be gained from moving to the next battle if the current battle loses at least as much off the results in the process. 

But of course, if someone wants to actually maximize their performance and their payout, that must be "shallow" and greedy and bloody-minded and whatever.  :Smile_sceptic:

More than once I've been yelled at in chat, and lost karma, for being the last player ship left afloat, with the red bot CV as the last enemy afloat, and taking my time to cap everything and then hunt down the CV.   And those players can shove it -- if they wanted to control how the battle ended, they should have managed to remain afloat against stinking AI bots.  I'm going to get the payout for all those caps, AND the payout for killing the CV, and then post the massive damage 3 or 6 kill game to the "best Co-Op battles" thread in the PVE section. 

 

 

 

<grin> ... reached my daily +1 limit so here you go.

We now have 2 extreme versions of this, one who wants to rush from battle to battle (like my Brother {RIP} rushed from girlfriend to girlfriend); and another who wants to squeeze the last XP out of a battle by capping all first and then go CV hunting.

While I lean towards option 2, capping first is a bit much even for my desire :-)

 

 

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1 minute ago, USMCGal said:

I can't tell you how many times I did not reach my goal of 300 stars for naval battles was because of this rule. As a small clan we do try to compete in this mode to gain us extra resources. But it is extremely frustrating to try to get that 300 stars in anything lower than a T8 US BB. I can do it in my German line most of the time and even in my T4 IJN Ichi on good days. When you have to obtain a certain goal within a battle and not a set number of battles then the mercy rule is very frustrating. I know I would not mind one bit to see it go. :Smile_honoring:

out of +1 so HERE you go PLUS ONE :-)

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5 minutes ago, freggo said:

While I lean towards option 2, capping first is a bit much even for my desire :-)

Why not both?

Sank all remaining bots but the bot Bogue with my Bogue.

Deplaned the bot Bogue.

Reduced the bot Bogue to a sliver of heath with careful attacks.

Stepped into the (Standard) cap, and kept my torpedo squad near the bot.

10-15 seconds left, I went in and dropped on the bot Bogue.

Boom. Bing.

Last kill and capped out with 0 left on the cap timer.

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Why not both?

Sank all remaining bots but the bot Bogue with my Bogue.

Deplaned the bot Bogue.

Reduced the bot Bogue to a sliver of heath with careful attacks.

Stepped into the (Standard) cap, and kept my torpedo squad near the bot.

10-15 seconds left, I went in and dropped on the bot Bogue.

Boom. Bing.

Last kill and capped out with 0 left on the cap timer.

As I mentioned in another post above I am also guilty of the attention span deficit.

If I had to run around for one, two or , oh Lordy help me, three caps I'd run out of patience.

Also there is the realism thingy (and YES, I know it is an arcade game); but I do not see Admiral Lütjens reporting back to the Führer that he capped all circles in the North Sea before sinking Hood.

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9 minutes ago, Aardvar said:

Perhaps a simple solution would be to start the bots with 100 points more than at present.

At first I thought yeah, great idea... but I think this will not work as it means the bots need make only 600 points to win.

True, they rarely do, but IF it happens watch the whining all over the forum about it :-)

 

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Mercy Rule?  They could simply make it where if the AI CV is the last one left, it stops driving around in the back and just goes to the middle, so no one has to chase it down.

The Mercy crap is beyond annoying.  Nothing quite like ending the game before the BBs are even really near the fight.  Entire game over, and still 3 AI ships left like 5 minutes into the match.

Alternately, they could give us a respawn system in Coop that goes the full 20 minutes.  AI bots die, they respawn, and players each get like 1 respawn each or something.

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5 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Or you can cap out?

If a slow ship is close to an unturned cap and no one else is, then turning that is more productive than chasing an unspotted bot CV.

Just sayin’...

  Bonus, because this boosts your base XP earnings  as much as killing that bot CV.   Not to mention it earns you good credits.

  I like to do both, depending on what ship I'm in.    Often jumping into a cap will attract that lone bot like ringing the dinner bell.   Then you can get points for a cap AND damaging/killing the red.

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6 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

"Just get to the next battle" means that the daily bonus, and any camo or flags used on that ship, were wasted.  I'm not looking for the next battle, I'm looking to have the most impact on and get the most payout from the battle I'm in right now.   There's no net value to be gained from moving to the next battle if the current battle loses at least as much off the results in the process. 

But of course, if someone wants to actually maximize their performance and their payout, that must be "shallow" and greedy and bloody-minded and whatever.  :Smile_sceptic:

More than once I've been yelled at in chat, and lost karma, for being the last player ship left afloat, with the red bot CV as the last enemy afloat, and taking my time to cap everything and then hunt down the CV.   And those players can shove it -- if they wanted to control how the battle ended, they should have managed to remain afloat against stinking AI bots.  I'm going to get the payout for all those caps, AND the payout for killing the CV, and then post the massive damage 3 or 6 kill game to the "best Co-Op battles" thread in the PVE section. 

I'll gladly deal with the 1 battle in 10 that goes a minute or two longer because there's no "mercy rule", to eliminate the 1 battle in 3  that cuts off early with 2 or 3 red ships still afloat and the entire team borked on XP and credits. 

I don't agree with this.   If you are in a co-op battle and the battle finishes fast, it's true that you didn't get the full potential of the daily bonus, camo and signals.   No doubt about that.   But if the co-op battle went until all the ships are destroyed, you are still missing out on maximizing because if you really want to do that, you'd be playing Random battles or Operations.  

As far as being yelled at in chat, right click on the name, block for the battle and you don't have to see any of that noise.   This is something I do early in the battle if someone is showing signs of being sour as that's just a signal that they are not likely to have valuable things to say.   And if you find yourself being the last player in battle versus bots, hey, it's your world and I don't blame you for maximizing your time at that point.   I've some 60 ships in my fleet so if I get bored, I move on.   No need to give the last person playing any grief as I had my chance.    

Anyway, yeah, there are those battles, especially if I play the Colorado, where I get to do very little and find it a bit frustrating when I finally get to a position to fire and it ends.  But hey, if I want the best chance I can get to obtain credits, xp and damage, it's not going to be in co-op in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, Altwar said:

I don't agree with this.   If you are in a co-op battle and the battle finishes fast, it's true that you didn't get the full potential of the daily bonus, camo and signals.   No doubt about that.   But if the co-op battle went until all the ships are destroyed, you are still missing out on maximizing because if you really want to do that, you'd be playing Random battles or Operations.  

As far as being yelled at in chat, right click on the name, block for the battle and you don't have to see any of that noise.   This is something I do early in the battle if someone is showing signs of being sour as that's just a signal that they are not likely to have valuable things to say.   And if you find yourself being the last player in battle versus bots, hey, it's your world and I don't blame you for maximizing your time at that point.   I've some 60 ships in my fleet so if I get bored, I move on.   No need to give the last person playing any grief as I had my chance.    

Anyway, yeah, there are those battles, especially if I play the Colorado, where I get to do very little and find it a bit frustrating when I finally get to a position to fire and it ends.  But hey, if I want the best chance I can get to obtain credits, xp and damage, it's not going to be in co-op in the first place.

It's not about choosing a mode based on the "best chance", it's about choosing a mode that doesn't suck to play (subjectively) and trying to get the most out of it while you enjoy it.

 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

It's not about choosing a mode based on the "best chance", it's about choosing a mode that doesn't suck to play (subjectively) and trying to get the most out of it while you enjoy it.

If it sucks to play (for you), why play it?   You play Co-Op with your eyes wide open and you see what it is.  Short series of bot boat bashing for a fraction of the xp/free xp/credits you'd get in the other modes.   

I like co-op a lot as it is because it plays to the missions detailed in the countdown screen and when those are achieved, it's done.  Short and sweet, great!   And every now and then, the bots actually win which keeps it interesting. 

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