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Bortt

CV Balans

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1 DD for 1 plane. Seems fair.

 

cv.gif

Edited by Bortt
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Gosh darn it, if a dd captain can't sail off behind an island and watch Netflix without getting plane spotted, I don't want to live on this planet any more. No one should ever be able to either 1) see, or 2) damage a dd. That's the whole point of  playing them.

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An Audacious Rocket plane has about 3k health.  You dealt 11.8k damage to planes.  Someone else got the kill on the planes you damaged.

DDs have multiple points of counter-play for Rocket Planes.

1) Charge the Rocket Planes.  Rocket planes have a "wind-up time" before they can shoot.  Once they click "attack", they have to wait 4 seconds before they can shoot.  You can get underneath their guns forcing overflying.  This can cause CVs to start their attack run EARLY when they can't even see you.  Use that.

2) Use your stealth.  Aerial Detection is very low (about 2.5 to 3km on average), and Rocket Planes have to fly out around 3.5 to 4km away so they can come back in and attack.  Don't leave your AA on and go invisible for a short time from the planes.  Use that time to

* a) Rush the oncoming planes to get under their guns

* b) Turn sharply left/right so the planes come in thinking you're one place, but find you're elsewhere and turn SHARPLY causing their aim to dumpster (assuming they start their attack run early)

3) Smoke.  CVs can't see through smoke.  If a CV drops a Fighter over you to keep you spotted, just use smoke.  It's a trade... consumable for consumable.

4) DD AA sucks.  Use your Priority Sector for a chunk of damage, then leave it off.  Advanced players will juggle their AA on and off repeatedly to mess with CV detection/aim, but folks learning anti-CV positioning should just use the Priority Sector PEW, then turn it off unless the cooldown is cycled.

Edited by Ahskance
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36 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

An Audacious Rocket plane has about 3k health.  You dealt 11.8k damage to planes.  Someone else got the kill on the planes you damaged.

DDs have multiple points of counter-play for Rocket Planes.

1) Charge the Rocket Planes.  Rocket planes have a "wind-up time" before they can shoot.  Once they click "attack", they have to wait 4 seconds before they can shoot.  You can get underneath their guns forcing overflying.  This can cause CVs to start their attack run EARLY when they can't even see you.  Use that.

2) Use your stealth.  Aerial Detection is very low (about 2.5 to 3km on average), and Rocket Planes have to fly out around 3.5 to 4km away so they can come back in and attack.  Don't leave your AA on and go invisible for a short time from the planes.  Use that time to

* a) Rush the oncoming planes to get under their guns

* b) Turn sharply left/right so the planes come in thinking you're one place, but find you're elsewhere and turn SHARPLY causing their aim to dumpster (assuming they start their attack run early)

3) Smoke.  CVs can't see through smoke.  If a CV drops a Fighter over you to keep you spotted, just use smoke.  It's a trade... consumable for consumable.

4) DD AA sucks.  Use your Priority Sector for a chunk of damage, then leave it off.  Advanced players will juggle their AA on and off repeatedly to mess with CV detection/aim, but folks learning anti-CV positioning should just use the Priority Sector PEW, then turn it off unless the cooldown is cycled.

Absolute CV main yodelling  CVs are all fine. ...... What a surprise. 

 

1. Yeah cuz charging into planes is always an option. Liek rushing into enemy cruisers.  Rushing out from behind the island cover into the open. Rushing into the enemy ships always great ideas.  Or do you often find the enemy planes coming from the side where your friendlies are.  

2. Ohh yes DD captain can totally turn around and change position in the 10 seconds it takes for the planes to be back. 

*a) assuming he rushed at the planes in the first place as you told him too this wont happen. 

*b) Yeah this works on all the scrub CVs  every decent or actually good CV players hits you anyway.  ( I know you are a unicum saying otherwise but I also know you are like the only one 5 actually defending CV vs DD interaction). 

3.) Oh yes  even trade on consumables there   1 of many fighter spawn consumables on  shorter cooldowns vs 1 of 4 smoke consumables. 

4) Only one I can agree on.  Turn the AA off when hes out of spotting and MAYBE if the CV is a complete potatoe you can actually loose him. 

 

You know better then most that IF you as a CV want a DD dead  you will kill them. There is no other  Ship to Ship interaction in this game that works this way. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bortt said:

1 DD for 1 plane. Seems fair.

 

 

Yep CVs  are bad. 

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45 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

4) DD AA sucks.  Use your Priority Sector for a chunk of damage, then leave it off.  Advanced players will juggle their AA on and off repeatedly to mess with CV detection/aim, but folks learning anti-CV positioning should just use the Priority Sector PEW, then turn it off unless the cooldown is cycled.

Not so much in tier 8 plus it is strong enough to make loitering inadvisable and some DD's are outright no fly zones.

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6 minutes ago, eviltane said:

Absolute CV main yodelling  CVs are all fine. ...... What a surprise. 

 

1. Yeah cuz charging into planes is always an option. Liek rushing into enemy cruisers.  Rushing out from behind the island cover into the open. Rushing into the enemy ships always great ideas.  Or do you often find the enemy planes coming from the side where your friendlies are.  

2. Ohh yes DD captain can totally turn around and change position in the 10 seconds it takes for the planes to be back. 

*a) assuming he rushed at the planes in the first place as you told him too this wont happen. 

*b) Yeah this works on all the scrub CVs  every decent or actually good CV players hits you anyway.  ( I know you are a unicum saying otherwise but I also know you are like the only one 5 actually defending CV vs DD interaction). 

3.) Oh yes  even trade on consumables there   1 of many fighter spawn consumables on  shorter cooldowns vs 1 of 4 smoke consumables. 

4) Only one I can agree on.  Turn the AA off when hes out of spotting and MAYBE if the CV is a complete potatoe you can actually loose him. 

 

You know better then most that IF you as a CV want a DD dead  you will kill them. There is no other  Ship to Ship interaction in this game that works this way. 

 

 

Yep CVs  are bad. 

Have you played CVs? The suggestions posted are legit.

 

 

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I'm seeing a lot of people diverge from the "CVs break the game" argument, and I don't fully understand. All I know is that all this pro-CV talk is making my walnut-sized brain incredibly angry. Not funny, guys. Stop it.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Not so much in tier 8 plus it is strong enough to make loitering inadvisable and some DD's are outright no fly zones.

Lol great joke, not even the grozovoi comes close to that.  

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1 hour ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Have you played CVs? The suggestions posted are legit.

 

 

Yes I have because of guys like you and I replied to the points with the Actual truth of the situation.

 

CVs are easy peasy noob machines. Destroying DDs with them is about on par with taking candies from babys.

Edited by eviltane

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2 hours ago, throwawayforumalt said:

Gosh darn it, if a dd captain can't sail off behind an island and watch Netflix without getting plane spotted, I don't want to live on this planet anymore. 

:cap_like:

 

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Let's complain about how Audacious, arguable the weakest T10 CV, should be nerfed because she's good at only one thing, that is shooting down DD.

 

Let's nerf the only thing she's good at.

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3 hours ago, Bortt said:

1 DD for 1 plane. Seems fair.

 

cv.gif

Next time, don't yolo. Even DD flak is pretty painful when it hits.

From playing the high-tier CVs, we're pretty reluctant to hit on DDs when our planes are under AA the whole way.

Finally, if you played a DD without smoke, uh, that's your fault.

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Sorry, I don't see that CV's break the game. There's an argument to be made that they break DD's, which I don't play much, but for cruisers and battleships I really don't find them to be any more dangerous than surface ships. You have to be aware of the presence of aircraft and act accordingly, but except in certain circumstances (when you're normally up crapcreek already), I find them mostly to be an annoyance.

A BB can kill you with one shot. Does that break the game? No, it's just part of the game, and people learn to deal with it.

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I used to hate CV players. Even reported them for playing the class. Got bored with DDs, BBs, and cruisers. Leveled a CV to 8. They are bloody hard to do any damage with. And hard to hit DDs who have AA off. I suggest everyone who slams CV play one t6 or t8 and do decent. It's very difficult  

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3 minutes ago, dps_gunner said:

I used to hate CV players. Even reported them for playing the class. Got bored with DDs, BBs, and cruisers. Leveled a CV to 8. They are bloody hard to do any damage with. And hard to hit DDs who have AA off. I suggest everyone who slams CV play one t6 or t8 and do decent. It's very difficult  

And yet so many people wonder why CV players tend to say to try CV if it's so easy! :Smile_teethhappy: Good on you for trying something new. Wish more players who hate CV were willing to give them a shot at least long enough to know how to better counter the threat from above.

I actually started playing new CVs because I wanted to understand them and how to best counter them, not to play them as much as I have, nor to own so many of the premiums. I actually sold Saipan when given the chance, as I bought her to learn old CV.

I knew well the power of old CVs and wanted to see how they measured up. I quickly realized they were much, much easier, but also waaaay weaker, especially at the higher end of skill. Gone is one-shotting basically any ship, and instead they are now great at exploiting openings such as a BB sitting still and predictability in DD routes, as well as finishing off targets that get away.

I say with 100% certainty that I am a better DD player for playing CV, too. I know what to expect and know how to avoid getting hurt. I know where DDs go, and know where to expect DDs to come from.

There is honestly massive value to be had even as a non-CV for trying out CVs.

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2 hours ago, dps_gunner said:

I used to hate CV players. Even reported them for playing the class. Got bored with DDs, BBs, and cruisers. Leveled a CV to 8. They are bloody hard to do any damage with. And hard to hit DDs who have AA off. I suggest everyone who slams CV play one t6 or t8 and do decent. It's very difficult  

I have played them again and again because people on the forums like you tell me its hard to hunt DDs in them. ......  They are not hard. Its easy to hunt and kill whatever DD you like in them ...... It takes all of 10 seconds to turn around on a DD and to line up for the next Attack.  Not even french DDs get far let alone change their direction of travel much.    So no I do not accept others telling me its hard. I have done it with my own mouse and keyboard over and over there is no challenge for a CV in this matchup. 

2 hours ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

And yet so many people wonder why CV players tend to say to try CV if it's so easy! :Smile_teethhappy: Good on you for trying something new. Wish more players who hate CV were willing to give them a shot at least long enough to know how to better counter the threat from above.

I actually started playing new CVs because I wanted to understand them and how to best counter them, not to play them as much as I have, nor to own so many of the premiums. I actually sold Saipan when given the chance, as I bought her to learn old CV.

I knew well the power of old CVs and wanted to see how they measured up. I quickly realized they were much, much easier, but also waaaay weaker, especially at the higher end of skill. Gone is one-shotting basically any ship, and instead they are now great at exploiting openings such as a BB sitting still and predictability in DD routes, as well as finishing off targets that get away.

I say with 100% certainty that I am a better DD player for playing CV, too. I know what to expect and know how to avoid getting hurt. I know where DDs go, and know where to expect DDs to come from.

There is honestly massive value to be had even as a non-CV for trying out CVs.

Yep played em for this reason too.  CV vs DD is a laughably sided match that goes to the CV every single time at best a DD can cower under his smoke cloud or the AA protection of another ship.  There is no other single matchup  in game that is this far out of whack.    

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i dont know about you guys but i sure love getting outplayed by players of lesser skill without counterplay

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1 hour ago, eviltane said:

I have played them again and again because people on the forums like you tell me its hard to hunt DDs in them. ......  They are not hard. Its easy to hunt and kill whatever DD you like in them ...... It takes all of 10 seconds to turn around on a DD and to line up for the next Attack.  Not even french DDs get far let alone change their direction of travel much.    So no I do not accept others telling me its hard. I have done it with my own mouse and keyboard over and over there is no challenge for a CV in this matchup. 

Yep played em for this reason too.  CV vs DD is a laughably sided match that goes to the CV every single time at best a DD can cower under his smoke cloud or the AA protection of another ship.  There is no other single matchup  in game that is this far out of whack.    

Hop on a t8 or t10 CV and blah a DD. post screen shots with damage done. I'll wait

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21 minutes ago, dps_gunner said:

Hop on a t8 or t10 CV and blah a DD. post screen shots with damage done. I'll wait

He only has a Shoukaku. And I highly bet the DDs he easily blap with no problems are scrub DDs who doesn't know how to dodge planes.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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2 hours ago, eviltane said:

Yep played em for this reason too.  CV vs DD is a laughably sided match that goes to the CV every single time at best a DD can cower under his smoke cloud or the AA protection of another ship.  There is no other single matchup  in game that is this far out of whack.    

DD vs anything isn't really a fair fight... if you play fair. That's why DDs taking straight fights isn't a good idea more often than not, and it applies to against CVs as well. Against CVs, you can just leverage concealment and take a slightly roundabout route to the cap of your choice till the CV busies themself and generally be left alone. Sticking to a cruiser like glue is actually a pretty bad idea if they don't have really good AA, as it's more than a bit predictable.

If I can't find the DD I tend to just smack a cruiser and recall, and, more often than not, I find the DD. But if I veer off to who knows where in a DD, the CVs I've faced typically can't find me for the first 5 minutes, as, by the time they properly locate me, I'm ready to smoke up in a cap or the CV is occupied elsewhere.

Just today I found a DD sticking to a cruiser like glue when I gave up looking for them and attacked something instead of wasting more time. Honestly, many cruisers are only a big threat if they have a fighter in the air, and often can actually attract attention to them if the CV would rather smack something than look elsewhere. Were they with a Worcester or Minotaur it would have no doubt worked, but the cruiser they picked was a Spee. Threatening for the tier, sure, but not threatening enough, even if I was using Ark's flimsy planes.

After all, while CV vs DD is a laughable fight, that does require you to actually find them for there to ba a fight in the first place.

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4 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

DD vs anything isn't really a fair fight... if you play fair. That's why DDs taking straight fights isn't a good idea more often than not, and it applies to against CVs as well.

I think this right here has just summed up why I just have to shake my head at so many of the complaints I hear about destroyers: They are the sneaky, backstabbing, flanking class that has NEVER been meant to take on anything in a straight up fight, but most of what I hear is about how it's not fair that they can't win in a fair fight.

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22 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

I think this right here has just summed up why I just have to shake my head at so many of the complaints I hear about destroyers: They are the sneaky, backstabbing, flanking class that has NEVER been meant to take on anything in a straight up fight, but most of what I hear is about how it's not fair that they can't win in a fair fight.

Because DDs are the only ones entitled to play unfair. CVs "stole" that role from them, therefore they screech and howl for their DD rights.

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10 hours ago, Ahskance said:

An Audacious Rocket plane has about 3k health.  You dealt 11.8k damage to planes.  Someone else got the kill on the planes you damaged.

DDs have multiple points of counter-play for Rocket Planes.

1) Charge the Rocket Planes.  Rocket planes have a "wind-up time" before they can shoot.  Once they click "attack", they have to wait 4 seconds before they can shoot.  You can get underneath their guns forcing overflying.  This can cause CVs to start their attack run EARLY when they can't even see you.  Use that.

2) Use your stealth.  Aerial Detection is very low (about 2.5 to 3km on average), and Rocket Planes have to fly out around 3.5 to 4km away so they can come back in and attack.  Don't leave your AA on and go invisible for a short time from the planes.  Use that time to

* a) Rush the oncoming planes to get under their guns

* b) Turn sharply left/right so the planes come in thinking you're one place, but find you're elsewhere and turn SHARPLY causing their aim to dumpster (assuming they start their attack run early)

3) Smoke.  CVs can't see through smoke.  If a CV drops a Fighter over you to keep you spotted, just use smoke.  It's a trade... consumable for consumable.

4) DD AA sucks.  Use your Priority Sector for a chunk of damage, then leave it off.  Advanced players will juggle their AA on and off repeatedly to mess with CV detection/aim, but folks learning anti-CV positioning should just use the Priority Sector PEW, then turn it off unless the cooldown is cycled.

One of the challenges for DDs is that planes can "permaspot" them, either by dropping fighters on them or simply flying on top of them... If DD is within red guns range he will attract shells like a magnet. For a CV that's the easier way to kill a DD, eventually go for one run when DDs health is low to terminate it.

Some DDs use smoke to retreat, careful because planes can wait on top of the smoke for a while.

If DD stays under smoke and red DDs are close, expect torpedoes.

That's a lot and guess that only highly experienced players can deal with all that and survive.

Best is to avoid this kind of situation, so always take a look at the map when planes are around, if your DD is in a situation where he will be under fire of several red pigs, your DD is in danger.

Even more during the first minutes of battles when planes are almost exclusively searching for DDs.

Be patient, always be "protected" by friendly AA, this means an AA cruiser or, of course, your CV team mate who will drop fighters on top of you.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Landsraad said:

I think this right here has just summed up why I just have to shake my head at so many of the complaints I hear about destroyers: They are the sneaky, backstabbing, flanking class that has NEVER been meant to take on anything in a straight up fight, but most of what I hear is about how it's not fair that they can't win in a fair fight.

Pretty much. Even DD vs DD, if you take a fair fight you are likely going to regret it if it isn't super late game.

One of my favorite not so fair fights was some type of not so dakka DD (I forget which. I want to say Asashio, though.) vs Atlanta, which normally would be suicide, but the Atlanta was super low and I was super high. Sure, I took a slight beating, but we all know the story of the Atlanta that got away and how horrible it goes for the team it got away from. That Atlanta didn't get away! :Smile_teethhappy:

Another time I did this to a Harugumo in a Yugumo. It didn't go quite as well, as I missed too many shots. That was more like a straight fight I could have easily won if I played better.

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