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Hapa_Fodder

"Torpedo Protection Hits" a little bit out of control

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Okay, I get it... in order to account for some of the "Zero Damage Penetrations" a "Torpedo Protection" impact was added... HOWEVER, this is a bit ridiculous, today a friend and I were divisioned up. I was in a Guilio he was in a Okt, so two pretty good BB's.  We were shooting at an AOBA at 10kms... he was "bow tanking" in reverse, between the two of us we had 16, "Torpedo Protection" impacts.  What was worse,  A LOT of those "Torpedo Protection" hits were from plunging fire going down into the bow....

So apparently the Aoba has some REALLY good Torpedo protection on the bow......

Furthermore, I have had torpedo protection hits in my Musashi on Zao's and even a Smolensk...  Kind of ridiculous...  that "Hard Hitting" BB's with "Big guns" have so much issue with hitting targets hard using those big guns........

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That’s from going through the torp protection and bouncing off the belt I believe. 

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8 minutes ago, Bortt said:

That’s from going through the torp protection and bouncing off the belt I believe. 

 

This ^

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11 minutes ago, Bortt said:

That’s from going through the torp protection and bouncing off the belt I believe. 

 

2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

 

This ^

Instead of having torpedo protection hits they should have simply called them bounces.

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Yeah, they would have been zero damage pens, or bounces before.  Now it gets reclassified.  Still zero damage, different ribbon.

Aim better.

 

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This is a [edited] mechanic.  The fact of the matter is that if you were to hit an actual torpedo blister it will in some way slow the ship down.  If it had nothing but air in it then it would flood and this slows the ship down.    Second if it was full of water then the hole in the blister would have some hydrodynamic drag that would slow the ship down, and that doesn't count the water being pushed into/against the actual hull by the explosion of the shell.

One question to ask is about USS Washington.  The Kirishima crew said they got  hit by 6 or so torpedoes.  This was not possible as the US destroyers were either sunk or crippled/ withdrawing.  The fact of the matter is that Washington hit the Kirishima below the water line.  I don't know if Kirishima had a torp belt for sure but it is very likely it did.  This didn't stop the shells from penning.  These hits contributed a lot to the sinking of Kirishima.  The problem is that the programming is faulty.  If a hit on a cruisers or DD's armor in its torp belt was enough for the shell to explode it would pen the ship.  If the shell didn't explode then it would be just like an overpen.  Which does result in some damage in the game.  Either way damage occurs of the ship is hit unless it is ruled a bounce of the armor.  Either a hit is enough to penetrate or it isn't this fake torp belt thing is dumb.  I once hit a cruiser with 6 shells from my BB and got six of the torp belt hits.  This would not leave that cruiser with no damage at all in any kind of real life scenario.  Just change the programming to an overpen and be done with it...  It isn't hard....

Edited by NightStalkers_2015
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8 minutes ago, NightStalkers_2015 said:

This is a [edited] mechanic. 

This is NOT a simulator; this is a GAME, with a lot of "ARTISTIC LICENSE" in the coding. Deal with it.

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Who says I am not dealing with it?  Are you the free speech police and no one can say something without your approval?  if I am a consumer of the product and participant in the game.(I only have about 1k less games than  you )  then I should be able to complain about something.  If you don't like me complaining maybe you should  "Deal with it."  

The artistic license for hitting a Gearing in the Engine room with an AP shell and it overpenning in real life  is not necessarily bad as the DD's in real life had a high chance of getting nuked by a hit there  the USS Johnston at Leyte Gulf being a prime example as it crippled  her.  In real life it was hard to sink a BB.  There is a lot of license in this game  I get it.  Some of it doesn't make any sense at all. 

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30 minutes ago, agm114r said:

Yeah, they would have been zero damage pens, or bounces before.  Now it gets reclassified.  Still zero damage, different ribbon.

Aim better.

 

Ahhh that explains things for me. I was in my Musashi in division the other night. Was doing plunging fire on a Alsace and a Alaska for zero damage. It said penetration but zero damage. Thanks

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Something changed a while back when they added torpedo protection hits. I have never seen or gotten so many overpens and non damaging hits on ships ever. Course since I use mostly cruisers and fight bots, I tend to stick with HE since most of the time I am shooting at them bow on. The only time I use AP is when I have nice broadside target to shoot. I have kind of quit now since I am literally getting AP overpens on freaking battleships now. I really enjoy how in one salvo I will get a citadel hit and the rest will be overpens so I know I am aiming correctly. Anyways hardly matters. 

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I used to think that the torpedo bulges were a saturatable zone that contributed to the main HP pool. I got that from context in the discussion over the proposed overpen change to saturated zones/modules in late 2018.

 

I guess they are not?

 

So, the question is: should torpedo bulges be saturatable zones on a ship's main hit point track? I'd like to at least have that tested on the PTS, see if it's better or worse than what we have now, and see what veterans think of it compared to the tested and abandoned changes from last year.

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13 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

I used to think that the torpedo bulges were a saturatable zone that contributed to the main HP pool. I got that from context in the discussion over the proposed overpen change to saturated zones/modules in late 2018.

 

I guess they are not?

 

So, the question is: should torpedo bulges be saturatable zones on a ship's main hit point track? I'd like to at least have that tested on the PTS, see if it's better or worse than what we have now, and see what veterans think of it compared to the tested and abandoned changes from last year.

They tried that and it was horrible. Suddenly, having a torpedo bulge or spaced armor became a huge liability. Their was strong opposition to the change and WG dropped it.

Edited by RipNuN2

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1 hour ago, NightStalkers_2015 said:

This is a [edited] mechanic.  The fact of the matter is that if you were to hit an actual torpedo blister it will in some way slow the ship down.  If it had nothing but air in it then it would flood and this slows the ship down.    Second if it was full of water then the hole in the blister would have some hydrodynamic drag that would slow the ship down, and that doesn't count the water being pushed into/against the actual hull by the explosion of the shell.

One question to ask is about USS Washington.  The Kirishima crew said they got  hit by 6 or so torpedoes.  This was not possible as the US destroyers were either sunk or crippled/ withdrawing.  The fact of the matter is that Washington hit the Kirishima below the water line.  I don't know if Kirishima had a torp belt for sure but it is very likely it did.  This didn't stop the shells from penning.  These hits contributed a lot to the sinking of Kirishima.  The problem is that the programming is faulty.  If a hit on a cruisers or DD's armor in its torp belt was enough for the shell to explode it would pen the ship.  If the shell didn't explode then it would be just like an overpen.  Which does result in some damage in the game.  Either way damage occurs of the ship is hit unless it is ruled a bounce of the armor.  Either a hit is enough to penetrate or it isn't this fake torp belt thing is dumb.  I once hit a cruiser with 6 shells from my BB and got six of the torp belt hits.  This would not leave that cruiser with no damage at all in any kind of real life scenario.  Just change the programming to an overpen and be done with it...  It isn't hard....

The mechanic has always been there. It is just a change from a non-penetrating hit to one that penetrates the sacrificial torpedo protection. Also as others have pointed out this is not a simulator.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

 

Instead of having torpedo protection hits they should have simply called them bounces.

The mechanic is unchanged, they just added an additional "Torpedo Protection Hit" ribbon to help you out so you could tell the difference between that and a regular bounce or shatter.

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

They tried that and it was horrible. Suddenly, having a torpedo bulge or spaced armor became a huge liability. Their was strong opposition to the change and WG dropped it.

I feel like you only read a few words of my post. It isn't many words, so: Would you please read the whole thing and reply again to what I actually typed? I'd like your input given that.

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5 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

I feel like you only read a few words of my post. It isn't many words, so: Would you please read the whole thing and reply again to what I actually typed? I'd like your input given that.

For torpedo bulges to be a saturation area, they would have to have health first.

If they had health, then shells hitting them would do a minimum of 10% shell damage to the ship.

That was the change that was tested, and people (rightly) hated it because not only did it cause BBs to die quickly to even DD guns, upgraded armor suddenly became worse than stock armor.

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I get the mechanic, I understand why they occur, I am saying they occur TOO OFTEN! Some of you blatantly ignored the fact that 2 BATTLESHIPS shooting at an AOBA got 16 torpedo protection hits while he was BOW ON to us.....  this makes ZERO sense....  several of my "torpedo protection" hits were rounds that actually fell into the BOW...

so the only way for this to occur, would be AP round plunges into bow, goes through a hatch, pops out above the belt armor, enters the torpedo bulge (OF A CRUISER) and then does nothing....

I'm not a potato player, I am pretty good, I know how to aim and where to aim...  but um, AOBA armor defeating BB shells.....  seriously?

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1 hour ago, wjp120 said:

I feel like you only read a few words of my post. It isn't many words, so: Would you please read the whole thing and reply again to what I actually typed? I'd like your input given that.

As Muninn pointed out, torp bulges have not had health in the past. At one point WG proposed allowing damage to the ships HP pool from shells that penned the torp bulge but not the armoured belt. This was tested on the PTS and was not adopted.

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I was playing the tier 7 operation with a Helena and I got up alongside the Lexington that spawns and was, at a range of like 4km, shoving 6" superheavy shells into his waterline amidships only to see the enormous majority of my rounds eaten by the torpedo bulge. It was actually kind of hilarious. I really wish I'd gotten a screenshot of it.

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4 hours ago, NightStalkers_2015 said:

Who says I am not dealing with it?  Are you the free speech police and no one can say something without your approval?  if I am a consumer of the product and participant in the game.(I only have about 1k less games than  you )  then I should be able to complain about something.

Gee wiz, Pookie, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel!

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5 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Furthermore, I have had torpedo protection hits in my Musashi on Zao's and even a Smolensk

 

Funny because last time I checked, Smolensk had no torpedo protection.

 

 

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On 11/9/2019 at 6:15 PM, AlcatrazNC said:

 

Funny because last time I checked, Smolensk had no torpedo protection.

 

 

well apparently it does...  Because thats what I got, trust me I would not bring this issue up if it was not occurring A LOT and with some RIDICULOUS shell impacts... I mean I have had torp protection impacts with shells going into the BACK END or BOW of ships.... And AGAIN this happens VERY often on cruisers... even if a BB shell actually hit a cruisers torp protection bulge I am pretty sure the cruiser should STILL take damage....

I mean if plunging fire into cruisers and BB's someone hits torpedo bulge... Well, I just think AP needs some looking at, or the positions of some of these armor layers are...

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1 hour ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

well apparently it does...  Because thats what I got, trust me I would not bring this issue up if it was not occurring A LOT and with some RIDICULOUS shell impacts... I mean I have had torp protection impacts with shells going into the BACK END or BOW of ships.... And AGAIN this happens VERY often on cruisers... even if a BB shell actually hit a cruisers torp protection bulge I am pretty sure the cruiser should STILL take damage....

I mean if plunging fire into cruisers and BB's someone hits torpedo bulge... Well, I just think AP needs some looking at, or the positions of some of these armor layers are...

It has nothing to do with a chance of happening. Your shells missed and did not damage the belt armour. If the ship did not have spaced armour or torpedo belt, those hits would show up as shatters or bounces, or not hits at all and splashing water. What is happening most likely is you're hitting an angled cruiser and the shells bounce off his belt armour after overmatching torpedo protection. Some torpedo protection in fact does have an HP pool so you can still damage a ship with these hits.

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