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AJTP89

IFHE for USN 127s?

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Two questions here, but related.

First, I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass if I get her. I'm going full secondary, I have a survival captain for when I want to play smart. Is IFHE worth the 4 pts? I know what armor thresholds it crosses, but I want to know if people actually see a substantial increase in damage with IFHE. Seems like a few other skills that would be useful, so want to make sure I'm not wasting points.

 

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs. Starting up the line now, reached Farragut. I obviously have CE, but wondering if IFHE is worth it here. Already seeing a lot of shatters even at T5, but does IFHE really help with that? I plan on taking this commander to the top, so eventual high tier play is a consideration. I know they're changing IFHE at some point, but who knows when that will happen, so I'd rather go ahead and do it now.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Two questions here, but related.

First, I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass if I get her. I'm going full secondary, I have a survival captain for when I want to play smart. Is IFHE worth the 4 pts? I know what armor thresholds it crosses, but I want to know if people actually see a substantial increase in damage with IFHE. Seems like a few other skills that would be useful, so want to make sure I'm not wasting points.

 

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs. Starting up the line now, reached Farragut. I obviously have CE, but wondering if IFHE is worth it here. Already seeing a lot of shatters even at T5, but does IFHE really help with that? I plan on taking this commander to the top, so eventual high tier play is a consideration. I know they're changing IFHE at some point, but who knows when that will happen, so I'd rather go ahead and do it now.

IFHE is for 152s in high tier play. Waste of 4 points for 127s.

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IFHE is no good for USN DDs and there is no way you have an extra 4pts for it on a secondary build(not that I think it's worth it for secondaries either).

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On DDs, I only take IFHE on up to tier 7.  Tier 8 and above I don't take IFHE due to greatly diminished returns due to armor levels of the top tier enemies.  I instead will take SE on my tier 8+ DDs.

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I have IFHE on my 19 pt Georgia captain. Does well against DD's and CL's. Still lights fires on CA's and BB's as well. I also went full secondary on mine using Admiral Halsey:

PT and EL (EL is an enhanced skill for Halsey)

EM (another enhanced Halsey skill)

BFT

MS, IFHE, AFT

Lots of fun!!

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2 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Two questions here, but related.

First, I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass if I get her. I'm going full secondary, I have a survival captain for when I want to play smart. Is IFHE worth the 4 pts? I know what armor thresholds it crosses, but I want to know if people actually see a substantial increase in damage with IFHE. Seems like a few other skills that would be useful, so want to make sure I'm not wasting points.

 

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs. Starting up the line now, reached Farragut. I obviously have CE, but wondering if IFHE is worth it here. Already seeing a lot of shatters even at T5, but does IFHE really help with that? I plan on taking this commander to the top, so eventual high tier play is a consideration. I know they're changing IFHE at some point, but who knows when that will happen, so I'd rather go ahead and do it now.

127mm pens 20mm (127 / 6 = 21.167 rounded to 21mm) and 27mm with IFHE (21.167 * 1.3 = 27.516). 

 

So it crosses the 25mm and 27mm armor thresholds. IFHE will help in mid tier for 127mm, but it is not as useful in high tier. Definitely check the tiers of the ship you will use IFHE on to see if there are enough 25mm and/or 27mm armor sections to make it worth using.

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IFHE is very good on tier 5-7 DD guns, just like it's very good on the Atlanta.

It still makes a difference at tier 8-10 but not necessarily enough to be worth the 5 points.

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2 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs

IMO IFHE can work on USN DDs... HOWEVER...   there are better ways to spend those 4 points.     You don't indicate how many points you are working with.  1st 4 point DD skill should be CE (again IMO).   If you want to take a second 4pt DD skill, RPF is a better choice.

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  So the more interesting question imho is when and or whether you go ifhe on USN DD's. As you know, armor pen on a 127mm HE round is 20mm without IFHE and 27mm with it with a -1% fire penalty. Stipulating that you pen all superstructures at all tiers, IFHE allows you to pen the deck plating on cruisers at tiers 8-10 plus Gearing's mid section plate, battleships at tiers 6 and 7. So you gotta ask yourself, what tier am I at and what is my playstyle?

  I think you can rule out USN DD IFHE use at high tier. It's 4 points of Captain skill that only gives you some of the cruisers at high tier and BB's that are tiered below you and will emphasize you smoke spamming when your torps and team play/vision control will want you to be more out of the smoke and doing things that help your team win. It's possible as a more selfish build and that's fine but just be aware it MAY only marginally pad your damage and comes at a cost.

  At mid tier (6 and 7) it's viable. IFHE gives you tier 6 and 7 BB deck plating for the most part and spamming HE from smoke while your planning attacks with your shorter ranged torps (Farragut) is a decent tactic without as much radar around. It still costs 4 points and 20% of your fire starting ability but it sure results in provably higher damage on Atlanta/Flint and there's no reason you won't average higher damage totals overall wit a tier 6 and 7 USN DD. The trade Captain skill wise is probably the last 4 points of your build, 16-19 and whether to use RPF, IFHE, or go for a 4x3 build  like SE BFT SI and DE. These are tough trades and you really have to ask yourself what kind of DD player you are at these tiers. Are you an aggressive DD hunter and opportunist BB hunter? Go for the RPF. Like the option of shooting down planes, gunboating and starting a lot of fires? 4x3. Damage dealer? IFHE.

  Good luck with it; just watch how many doubloons you commit to it lol.

   

 

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Seems like consensus is IFHE isn't worth it on high tier DDs, and not a must have at mid tier. I'm at mid tier now, but plan on going up. I think things like Superintendent and RPF are going to be more useful, so I'll with those as the points become available.

 

Thoughts on IFHE for full secondary Mass/GA captain?

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1 minute ago, AJTP89 said:

Seems like consensus is IFHE isn't worth it on high tier DDs, and not a must have at mid tier. I'm at mid tier now, but plan on going up. I think things like Superintendent and RPF are going to be more useful, so I'll with those as the points become available.

 

Thoughts on IFHE for full secondary Mass/GA captain?

I have my Georga full secondary specced without IFHE and it performs very well. I cannot see why you would waste those points on it instead of the fire prevention perk unless you like having more fires burn at the same time.

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4 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Two questions here, but related.

First, I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass if I get her. I'm going full secondary, I have a survival captain for when I want to play smart. Is IFHE worth the 4 pts? I know what armor thresholds it crosses, but I want to know if people actually see a substantial increase in damage with IFHE. Seems like a few other skills that would be useful, so want to make sure I'm not wasting points.

 

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs. Starting up the line now, reached Farragut. I obviously have CE, but wondering if IFHE is worth it here. Already seeing a lot of shatters even at T5, but does IFHE really help with that? I plan on taking this commander to the top, so eventual high tier play is a consideration. I know they're changing IFHE at some point, but who knows when that will happen, so I'd rather go ahead and do it now.

I don't think you'll ever see a good set of data anyone has collected to show how much of a change the damage their secondaries did in games with or without IFHE, everyone slaps stuff on and plays until they get a "gut feeling" that it's a good move or not, or tricking themselves into thinking it was a good move or not.  Because it's going to be hard replicating situations.

 

That said, for 127mm armed DDs, even though I'm not a DD Main, I would never use IHFE for those guns.  They already HE Pen other DDs (minus Khab's stupid 50mm armor) and even BB superstructure.  I'd want the 4pts to go into other things.

 

For the purpose of 127mm Secondaries, that's up in the air.  I know a bunch of Mass drivers that love IFHE because when they get to throw their weight around as a Top Tier Ship, it melts Tier VII and lower ships with ease.  But Mass is Tier VIII.  What kind of threats does Georgia face?  Typically Tier IX-X, but like Musashi as a Tier IX, she does get to tee off on Tier VII ships on occasion, and you got some slow BBs that tier like Nelson, Lolorado, and Nagato who can't even run away from a 27kt Massachusetts, much less a 33kt+ Engine Boosting Georgia.

 

On the flip side, some are just content with the accurate Mass / Georgia style Secondaries landing fires even on things they can't HE Pen.

 

So... How often do Tier VII ships, or Cruisers do you get under your Georgia's Secondaries?  If it's a lot then slam that IFHE in and melt them.  If not that often, then I wouldn't bother.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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17 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass

I ran into a Georgia at close range and he had IFHE doing 4k per salvo on my Colorado so i was pretty inpressed

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18 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Two questions here, but related.

First, I'm getting a captain secondary spec'd for the Georgia, maybe Mass if I get her. I'm going full secondary, I have a survival captain for when I want to play smart. Is IFHE worth the 4 pts? I know what armor thresholds it crosses, but I want to know if people actually see a substantial increase in damage with IFHE. Seems like a few other skills that would be useful, so want to make sure I'm not wasting points.

 

Second one is whether IFHE is worth in on USN DDs. Starting up the line now, reached Farragut. I obviously have CE, but wondering if IFHE is worth it here. Already seeing a lot of shatters even at T5, but does IFHE really help with that? I plan on taking this commander to the top, so eventual high tier play is a consideration. I know they're changing IFHE at some point, but who knows when that will happen, so I'd rather go ahead and do it now.

With most DDs, including USN DDs, the first 4-point skill you should get is Concealment.  And, again in most DD cases including the USN, that is the only 4-point skill you should spend points on.  There are too many 3 and 2-point skills that are a greater help for DDs than to grind through and waste another whole 4 points on just IFHE.

The only exception to this would be for specific DD gunboats that aren't played like conventional destroyers, the Russian and French lines.  And for those I would get IFHE first and not worry about getting concealment at all.  For those lines, if you're not being seen and shot at from long range by half the red team, then you aren't doing it right.

 

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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