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Kizarvexis

FOUR main gun turrets taken out in one battle

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So here I am with a team of bots. I'm at the back line to stay out of the bot torp lanes doing some damage when the team melts away. There are four red bots left around one cap, so I start a fighting bow-on retreat. I finish off the Roon and FdG, but the Izumo has damaged my B turret twice. The iowa has turned to charge and the Izumo is trying to cap, so I start focusing more on the Iowa as the range to the Izumo opens. As the Iowa closes, I focus on shooting the upper deck and take out one of his turrets. I then take out the second a few salvos later, so the bot only has the rear turret left.

6jiTvvD.jpg

 

A few quick shots and it's me and the Izumo. I start forward again and get some good hits.  But the Izumo takes out my A turret. Then he takes out my B turret. 

YhWGONL.jpg

 

No matter, he has turned and is reloading, so swing Alsace's ba-donk-a-donk around and win the battle.

7yVI6lC.jpg

qyeM2P9.jpg

Spoiler

kXBldVi.jpg

LgslxqO.jpg

MchSdev.jpg

 

That was a fun battle and the most BB turrets I have seen lost by me or my target in a single battle.

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Heh. Always sucks when that happens. It's situations like that that make me run the slot 1 mode for turret survivability on BBs! :Smile_teethhappy: You never lose turrets... till you need your turrets more than ever.

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I've had both turrets on my Dunkerque knocked out by a single salvo, not much fun. Also a first hit in one of my first Cossack games destroyed its one and only torp rack. 

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It's an easy thing to do against the bots because they don't run upgrades (MAM1) and traits (PM) like players do.  The easiest ones to disarm are the FR 380mm-armed BBs, except for Gascogne.  The FR 380mm x4 gun turrets are very wide and easy to land lots of shells on them.  Eventually they pop real easy.  Even worse for them, the 2nd forward turret sits on a very high barbette.

 

The turret thickness for the FR 380mm armed turrets isn't an issue.  It's the same thickness as North Carolina's, and nobody ever talks of easily disarmed NCs.  Here is Alsace, her forward turrets are arranged just like Richelieu, Jean Bart.

C1IASzS.jpg

If I am playing a BB, that red X is where I aim my AP shells at.  A decent salvo will land hits on the very wide turret faces to land module damage to either incapacitate or destroy it.  That, or the shell lands and smashes that very tall barbette to take out the 2nd turret.

Compare that arrangement to North Carolina where her 2nd turret's barbette is a lot less pronounced.

psoD5av.jpg

 

Gascogne doesn't face the issue the way Richelieu, Jean Bart, Alsace do.  She still has the same turrets with the wide faces, but she doesn't have that vulnerable 2nd turret on a high barbette that's easy to KO.

oa0uPRz.jpg

 

Republique has the same setup as Gascogne, and she too doesn't face the issues the way Richelieu, JB, Alsace do.

 

Also, some other nations have squishy BB turret faces.  German 380mm turret faces are vertical and not too thick.  Bismarck's turret faces are only 360mm thick.  Since Co-op is very brawly in nature, you can pick them out and disable them at these ranges.  Royal Navy 419mm turrets are VERY squishy.  Vertical turret faces with very thin 381mm face armor.  The 457mm guns are built the same way but have 456mm face armor.

 

I only got into this subject back when the FR BB Line was in pre-release.  I received the Richelieu mission and was playing her in Randoms.  I remember playing against a Missouri player in a brawl situation.  The Missouri was in a bad spot but had reversed to an island to cover his sides and have friends in the area.  I was in less than 10km range.  I had friends behind me as well.  The shocking thing was the Missouri player was constantly disabling my turrets and the 2nd turret was eventually destroyed.  Only my forward most turret was left and I felt sure he was pretty close to destroying that one as well, while I couldn't do the same to his guns.  Honestly, if it weren't for my teammates behind me, I'd have lost that fight.

 

After that and several other similar cases, it made me look up any possible reasons why this was happening so much for my FR BBs, then realized it happened only with Richelieu at the time (Republique, Alsace had not released yet for the event).  Lyon, Normandie didn't have this issue, only Richelieu.  With the Armor Viewer I started comparing turret face angles, face armor thickness, barbette heights and armor thickness, etc.  The FR 380mm-armed BBs setup like JB & Richelieu are just simply vulnerable, a lot more than the other BB Lines.

 

So, I took that information I learned and applied it in Randoms when facing those 380mm-armed FR BBs.  Alsace, Richelieu, Jean Bart.  Didn't matter.  I promise you, just aim where that red X is and slam it with BB AP shells, you'll profit, especially once the ranges get a bit closer where you can call and place shots more precisely.

 

Jean Bart can't hurt you if you rip her turrets apart.

 

Edit:  Go to the Artillery Chart and look up the Penetration values of BBs, in particular the hard hitting High Tier Battleships, see how much they can penetrate at certain range thresholds.  Then look at those vertical turret faces with mediocre armor values, or turret faces that are massive like FR 380mm turrets... Yeah, you can pull the wings off the fly if you want.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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12 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It's an easy thing to do against the bots because they don't run upgrades (MAM1) and traits (PM) like players do.  The easiest ones to disarm are the FR 380mm-armed BBs, except for Gascogne.  The FR 380mm x4 gun turrets are very wide and easy to land lots of shells on them.  Eventually they pop real easy.  Even worse for them, the 2nd forward turret sits on a very high barbette.

 

The turret thickness for the FR 380mm armed turrets isn't an issue.  It's the same thickness as North Carolina's, and nobody ever talks of easily disarmed NCs.  Here is Alsace, her forward turrets are arranged just like Richelieu, Jean Bart.

C1IASzS.jpg

If I am playing a BB, that red X is where I aim my AP shells at.  A decent salvo will land hits on the very wide turret faces to land module damage to either incapacitate or destroy it.  That, or the shell lands and smashes that very tall barbette to take out the 2nd turret.

Compare that arrangement to North Carolina where her 2nd turret's barbette is a lot less pronounced.

psoD5av.jpg

 

Gascogne doesn't face the issue the way Richelieu, Jean Bart, Alsace do.  She still has the same turrets with the wide faces, but she doesn't have that vulnerable 2nd turret on a high barbette that's easy to KO.

oa0uPRz.jpg

 

Republique has the same setup as Gascogne, and she too doesn't face the issues the way Richelieu, JB, Alsace do.

 

Also, some other nations have squishy BB turret faces.  German 380mm turret faces are vertical and not too thick.  Bismarck's turret faces are only 360mm thick.  Since Co-op is very brawly in nature, you can pick them out and disable them at these ranges.  Royal Navy 419mm turrets are VERY squishy.  Vertical turret faces with very thin 381mm face armor.  The 457mm guns are built the same way but have 456mm face armor.

 

I only got into this subject back when the FR BB Line was in pre-release.  I received the Richelieu mission and was playing her in Randoms.  I remember playing against a Missouri player in a brawl situation.  The Missouri was in a bad spot but had reversed to an island to cover his sides and have friends in the area.  I was in less than 10km range.  I had friends behind me as well.  The shocking thing was the Missouri player was constantly disabling my turrets and the 2nd turret was eventually destroyed.  Only my forward most turret was left and I felt sure he was pretty close to destroying that one as well, while I couldn't do the same to his guns.  Honestly, if it weren't for my teammates behind me, I'd have lost that fight.

 

After that and several other similar cases, it made me look up any possible reasons why this was happening so much for my FR BBs, then realized it happened only with Richelieu at the time (Republique, Alsace had not released yet for the event).  Lyon, Normandie didn't have this issue, only Richelieu.  With the Armor Viewer I started comparing turret face angles, face armor thickness, barbette heights and armor thickness, etc.  The FR 380mm-armed BBs setup like JB & Richelieu are just simply vulnerable, a lot more than the other BB Lines.

 

So, I took that information I learned and applied it in Randoms when facing those 380mm-armed FR BBs.  Alsace, Richelieu, Jean Bart.  Didn't matter.  I promise you, just aim where that red X is and slam it with BB AP shells, you'll profit, especially once the ranges get a bit closer where you can call and place shots more precisely.

 

Jean Bart can't hurt you if you rip her turrets apart.

 

Edit:  Go to the Artillery Chart and look up the Penetration values of BBs, in particular the hard hitting High Tier Battleships, see how much they can penetrate at certain range thresholds.  Then look at those vertical turret faces with mediocre armor values, or turret faces that are massive like FR 380mm turrets... Yeah, you can pull the wings off the fly if you want.

I know why it happened, it was just funny that my two front turrets and the Iowa's two front turrets were all destroyed. :Apostolis: in the Izumo is the one that hit my turrets 4 times to destroy both of them. There was one hit on the A turret and 3 hits on the B turret by :Apostolis:. Keep an eye on that one. :Smile_teethhappy:

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9 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

I know why it happened, it was just funny that my two front turrets and the Iowa's two front turrets were all destroyed. :Apostolis: in the Izumo is the one that hit my turrets 4 times to destroy both of them. There was one hit on the A turret and 3 hits on the B turret by :Apostolis:. Keep an eye on that one. :Smile_teethhappy:

I remember a Randoms incident a while back, things were looking bad for my flank and I was playing Yamato.  I had to do the 'ol "Bow on Reverse back into islands" maneuver to protect my sides.  There was a NC in front of me, trying to maneuver to get a favorable angle and nail Yamato's "chin" but I knew what they he was doing and prevented that.  I remember NC was of course being protective of her flanks, so I just fired AP into those turrets.  At around 12km, Yamato's AP has 639mm of penetration, so those NC turrets were getting popped like pimples :Smile_trollface:  Yamato's turret faces are very thicc and sturdy.  Very rare for me to lose any.

Image result for aku thicc

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I remember a Randoms incident a while back, things were looking bad for my flank and I was playing Yamato.  I had to do the 'ol "Bow on Reverse back into islands" maneuver to protect my sides.  There was a NC in front of me, trying to maneuver to get a favorable angle and nail Yamato's "chin" but I knew what they he was doing and prevented that.  I remember NC was of course being protective of her flanks, so I just fired AP into those turrets.  At around 12km, Yamato's AP has 639mm of penetration, so those NC turrets were getting popped like pimples :Smile_trollface:  Yamato's turret faces are very thicc and sturdy.  Very rare for me to lose any.

Image result for aku thicc

I have Musashi and I can see how Yammy rarely gets turrets disabled from the front. I'm still on Amagi, so it will be a while to get Yamato.

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6 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

I have Musashi and I can see how Yammy rarely gets turrets disabled from the front. I'm still on Amagi, so it will be a while to get Yamato.

The ride to Tier X in IJN BBs should be better now compared to when I did it years ago.  Amagi is still gonna Amagi and she's fine.  The main issue was Izumo back then, she was bad and I FreeXP'd past her.  But today, Izumo is alright with her buffs over the last year.  The only problem she has is the weird 3rd turret arrangement.  If she had a Nelson-like gun arrangement, she'd be amazing, but right now she's fine.  Matter of fact, statistically, she's better than Iowa.


Statistically, Tech Tree USN BBs are actually the worst.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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