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TL_Warlord_Roff

More Ocean map please.. players need to learn to fight!...

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Really honestly  lets have ocean map in the rotation a lot more often.  Game has had a huge influx in new players in recent months and they need to not only learn their ships, and the game, they need to learn how to fight.  Most of them don't and they keep getting bad advice on how to be good.  It's real frustrating to me how many players simply don't pay attention.  And the Match maker in the game does manipulate players and influence them to make purchases.  It does not challenge them to be better players.  It may be great business but its flat out [edited] game design.  And its something that WOWS has in common with all other combat MMO's on the market.  That doesn't make it acceptable to me as a gamer.    

I did martial arts as a kid and no one got babied then (decades ago).. Parents had to sign hold harmless waivers and such because kids did get hurt.  To learn to hit frankly you have to learn what will happen if your not the one doing the hitting.  It was pain full, but it was a critical lesson.  Same reason combat arms training in the military is rough.  Every year trainees get killed in training because they moved wrong or weren't paying attention.  It doesn't happen often but its usually a very salutary lesson to their fellow trainee's.  And it makes a big difference in survival rates in the field.  Check with the Marines on that one if you don't believe this.   

This is a combat game... and players need to learn to fight if they're ever going to be really good.  and It's a team based game.  The way the game is structured around individual rewards instead of rewarding as a team  (it's there but its not obvious at all ) does not encourage team play. and it's not the only issue.  And it's has a great deal to do with what is holding warships up from achieving recognizable status as an E-sport game.   warships should be a shoe in as a team based esport title yet it falls just short year after year.  It's such as issue that competitive play in this game is done around 7 player teams not 12 player teams which is something I consider a fundamental failing.  If most of the game is 12 player per team then comp play should also be 12 player teams.  Ya know you go play little league baseball, 9 players on the field just like the pro's.   You play american football in Jr High, high school and college.  11 players per team just like the pro's. 

Comp play needs to be just like we play in the regular game. the difference is a failing and may have a great deal to do with how many players do NOT participate in clan battles which is a form of competitive play.  There is only one way for potatoes to overcome their spudness and that's to have it kicked out out of 'em for the most part.  Some do figure it out, but most never do and that not just on the player but on the way the game is structured. It's on the game designers and developers. it IS dissatisfying

So why Ocean map?

Ocean map is absolutely unforgiving of players that do not get out there and fight as a team.  Team work has to be learned and a good team based game teaches this.  Gamers as a rule in my experience are not real good at learning lessons unless they no choice in the learning of them.. Human nature and all that.   You can learn from games, and the better games DO teach.  The best games rival the complexity of real world situations.  So let have a little more REAL.  My honest opinion as a gamer of over 50 years of experience with wargaming as a hobby is ocean map should represent 1/4 of all matches played at an average maximum and no less then 1 in 6 matches.   This reflects the real world.   We get history tossed at us constantly in this game.  It's a big selling point.

I'd really like to see wargaming walking the talk a whole lot more often.   My judgement on the matter is they don't.   I don't like it.

Warlord sends

(and no your really don't want to know what prompted this!) 

 

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I would love to see more ocean map in any battle mode outside of the training room, I only see it once every month, I wouldn't. I think a quarter of our matches seeing it is too much I was thinking seeing it no more than once or twice a day. but it entirely comes down how many matches you run on that day.

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Agreed.  Ocean should always be part of the regular rotation.

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90% of the people here's stats would TANK if Ocean was in full rotation.  I personally would LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

tennnnor.gif

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Not reading the wall of text above I agree with the title.  Ocean has become too rare.  It doesn't have to happen as much as the other maps but buff it's freq a bit...

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I haven't played that in ages, how do destroyers typically fare? Without the cover and shotblockers wouldn't that type of terrain favour ships with longer ranges?

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7 minutes ago, edibleshrapnel said:

I haven't played that in ages, how do destroyers typically fare? Without the cover and shotblockers wouldn't that type of terrain favour ships with longer ranges?

Ocean is a great map for DDs of all types, as long as you know how to dodge incoming shells, how to stay concealed if you're in a torp boat, etc.

 

 

I got the Ocean map night before last when I was playing my Yukikaze.  I love the map, but I have to say that being in a tier 10 battle in a tier 8 DD that only mounts 8 km torps was rather … challenging.  I still managed a bit over 50k damage, so it wasn't all that bad.  But damn, if I'd been in, oh, an Asashio, it might have been absolutely brutal for the enemy team.

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23 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

90% of the people here's stats would TANK if Ocean was in full rotation.  I personally would LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

tennnnor.gif

Amen!!!

The problem is that BECAUSE Ocean is so rare, many people will go months between battles on Ocean.  And some more recent players may have never seen it at all.  I've been playing WoWS since the Open Beta, so I'm quite familiar with playing it.  Regardless, the point is that when Ocean is seen so rarely, people with little experience playing Ocean just don't know how to play it.  And some players are SOOOOO dependent on islands for their style of play that having to play on Ocean is a total shock to their system.  The flip side is that if you know how to effectively open water gunboat in a DD or a cruiser, then you know the basics for playing Ocean.

 

Strategically speaking, "B" cap on Ocean (i.e. the central cap) is NOT a good place to go early, unless perhaps you're in a DD and you can handle some DDvDD brawling.  Going B in a larger ship can expose you to fire from both the left and right.  Generally speaking, it's better to try to take one of the corner caps first because you'll likely only take fire from one side of your ship if you properly manage your positioning.  And if your team does take that cap, then you can turn and head towards B cap somewhat more safely.

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It's also technically the most realistic map. Yes, I know that since subs can go 30 knots realism kind of got thrown out the window, but still.

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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

90% of the people here's stats would TANK if Ocean was in full rotation.  I personally would LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

tennnnor.gif

Says the person who hdies his stats

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Ocean map, best map but the island huggers scream and curl up on the floor in the foetal position if they see it...

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I'm guessing the people begging for more ocean are players that favour BBs, torp DDs, and long range HE spam CAs. 

I don't hate the map at all, but I've found my most one sided/boring games tend to happen on it.  

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3 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

90% of the people here's stats would TANK if Ocean was in full rotation.  I personally would LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope. Wouldn't effect me at all.

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If this happened you would see a lot of threads about all the torps and about all the ships smoke firing. 

 

Ps I miss playing ocean when Open water stealth firing was a thing.

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@FemennenIy, @Umbaretz, @Ryuu_kun

When will we see any comment about rotation of the map ocean.

I beleive we should have it as a regular map for all tiers from T5 upwards, as I am interested, as with others about why we do not have it as often, we used to.

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1 hour ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

@FemennenIy, @Umbaretz, @Ryuu_kun

When will we see any comment about rotation of the map ocean.

I beleive we should have it as a regular map for all tiers from T5 upwards, as I am interested, as with others about why we do not have it as often, we used to.

I disagree with t5 and upwards part. The either introduce map scaling smaller or larger to be in line with the tiers playing it or restrict it to t8-10 only.

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Just now, Cpt_Cupcake said:

I disagree with t5 and upwards part. The either introduce map scaling smaller or larger to be in line with the tiers playing it or restrict it to t8-10 only.

I have played it before with t5, sure if they want to scale it for certain tiers, I just think it should be avaiable to tiers 5 and up

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Ocean is too small to be called Ocean. It's too small IMHO for high tier play. There should be 2 Ocean maps, one for mid tier (present Ocean), and one for higher tier that's, at least, 50% bigger.

Also, many ships/ship types are designed to utilize terrain. "Learning to fight" means knowing how to play the selected ship to its strengths. Ocean does not allow this, and some ships simply become damage pinatas.

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1 minute ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

I have played it before with t5, sure if they want to scale it for certain tiers, I just think it should be avaiable to tiers 5 and up

I have as well, certain nations/classes at that bracket will struggle, particularly USN BBs and most t5 CAs. 

Personally, I feel the scaling of "ocean" could be a good testbed for the concept. Could be applied to other maps and greatly increase variety...

@Femennenly has WG look at the feasibility of MM scaling of maps?

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More Ocean please. I love the idea of seeing it often T5 and up. 

I see “Neighbors”, Trap, and “Desert Sands”(?) way too often, yet I’ve played Ocean now a grand total of 3 times in over 6k battles.

Up until a few months ago I’d literally never seen it. I actually made the naive comment once of “why don’t they just have a open ocean map?” To which I was of course told about this mythical “Ocean” map. 

My advice is do not cater to potatoes, they destroy game play. Put in Ocean more, 2 in a 20 match day even would be welcome.

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They most definitely need to put Ocean back into rotation for co-op play for all tiers. It is a fun map no matter what kind of ship you are using and it requires a bit of teamwork to win. 

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