Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
MEANN

Map tactics and poor choices

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,956
[HATE]
Members
1,073 posts
17,326 battles

WG used to have a couple of map explanations on youtube. they were very good at talking about where boat types should go. where firing lanes were. Can WG produce more content like this? 

Based on the last few months of very lopsided matches and the huddle behind one island and come out one at a time meta. I would Love to see in-game videos on the news feed on how each map should be approached. 

Pros and cons of island huggin for bbs vs american cruisers. cause I am unable in a random game to articulate that most of the bbs should not sit behind an island while a DM caps. in open water. As i witnessed this morning. 

I'll set the stage.  dm comes from island, on open water, radars me, mind you i have had him spotted during his push into the cap. none of his team mates were close yet. I cant escape fast enough, and of course i was gunned down while said bbs sat behind islands. Then as the rest of his team arrived he proceeded to kill 4 boats at this cap. A mushi can simply erase a bow in dm. really effective when the dm is 8k or less. This is just one example of map stupid play. on the other side my team had 6 boats in 2 squares running for the border. the entire game was less then 8 minutes.  I check the ave dmg on my team vs the other team to see how mm was. on our side we had me a 52k 9k games player and 2 45k, the rest was all under 30k ave dmg globally, on contrast, red team had 119k global ave player, 88k ave, 66k, ave and a mix of 45 to 55k players, one 2 of their team had less than a 40k ave dmg, so 3 players were supposed to carry 9 against 8 unicum to super unicom players. within 8 minutes the game was over due to loss of points. I can only think that map understanding is the issue or a main cause. I find it hard to believe that there are that many stupid people playing this game. It has to be a lack of understanding about how map tactics work and how each class needs to be employed in the most basic level.

image.png.4de23a8595d6fcf0a9ba4baf760b1dce.png

  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,302 posts
16,549 battles

I agree it would be helpful. Perhaps even more helpful if they had this info on the page while you wait for your ship to load. Unfortunately, most don't and won't bother with it.As we know too well, the battle is usually won or lost in the first 30 seconds. Based on the positioning of the ships early on it's easy to predict the outcome. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
215
[THOR]
Members
503 posts

Stupid define?

A lack of understanding due to not enough info and connect the mechanic or meta into a plausible for that ship. 4k battles and still learning map position for that ship I am in. My problem may be too many ships I bounce around in and maybe should stick to one and learn. I know I will not be a unicum but I still have a desire to do my best for team even though I can still at times do potato things.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
665
[CAST]
[CAST]
Members
2,619 posts
10,469 battles
11 minutes ago, MEANN said:

I can only think that map understanding is the issue or a main cause. I find it hard to believe that there are that many stupid people playing this game.

No.  I think players are more concerned about not getting hit than actually doing anything to hit the enemy.   If they can shoot the enemy, then the enemy can shoot them.   As such, they stay away from anywhere that might allow them to get shot. 

I played a T9 game last night in my T7 french DD, where I got into a nice spotting area and kept the enemy team spotted for a good 5 minutes near the beginning of the game.  None of the enemy team took any damage except for the damage I gave them.  My team was so concerned about getting shot at, that they either ran behind an island or kited away to the North line of the map.  Eventually, 3 of the enemy ships came my way because they knew where I had to be spotting them from.  It didn't go well for me after that.  In the end, we almost pulled out the game, and if even a couple of the enemy ships on our side of the map had been damaged even a tiny bit by our other 5 ships near the cap zone, we probably would have won.  This isn't an isolated incident.  This scenario happens all the time.  I have had lots of games where I had my BB only a couple of km from a cap, only to have 6 ships, including DDs, behind me.  I would actually live longer than they did and would get over 100k damage before I was taken down because the enemy had a 8 - 3 ship advantage.  How does that happen?  How do you die first, when you have a tank in front of you absorbing hits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,899
[WAIFU]
[WAIFU]
Members
3,614 posts
15,358 battles

On the flip side, why are you (I presume you are the Groz) trying to pull that stunt when you can see that none of your friendly ships can shoot the DM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[S0L0]
Beta Testers
1,712 posts
4,169 battles
6 minutes ago, pikohan said:

On the flip side, why are you (I presume you are the Groz) trying to pull that stunt when you can see that none of your friendly ships can shoot the DM?

Because the team is supposed to be doing what he says, obviously.  It's the perfect plan and they're just like... ignoring it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,956
[HATE]
Members
1,073 posts
17,326 battles
9 minutes ago, pikohan said:

On the flip side, why are you (I presume you are the Groz) trying to pull that stunt when you can see that none of your friendly ships can shoot the DM?

well when i went into the cap the dm was not spotted yet, however my teams was steaming towards the cap and promptly spotted behind the island and did nothing while a ran for my life torping and shooting the dm. of course a grozi against a dm is not a good fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[S0L0]
Beta Testers
1,712 posts
4,169 battles
41 minutes ago, MEANN said:

WG used to have a couple of map explanations on youtube. they were very good at talking about where boat types should go. where firing lanes were. Can WG produce more content like this? 

Based on the last few months of very lopsided matches and the huddle behind one island and come out one at a time meta. I would Love to see in-game videos on the news feed on how each map should be approached. 

Pros and cons of island huggin for bbs vs american cruisers. cause I am unable in a random game to articulate that most of the bbs should not sit behind an island while a DM caps. in open water. As i witnessed this morning. 

I'll set the stage.  dm comes from island, on open water, radars me, mind you i have had him spotted during his push into the cap. none of his team mates were close yet. I cant escape fast enough, and of course i was gunned down while said bbs sat behind islands. Then as the rest of his team arrived he proceeded to kill 4 boats at this cap. A mushi can simply erase a bow in dm. really effective when the dm is 8k or less. This is just one example of map stupid play. on the other side my team had 6 boats in 2 squares running for the border. the entire game was less then 8 minutes.  I check the ave dmg on my team vs the other team to see how mm was. on our side we had me a 52k 9k games player and 2 45k, the rest was all under 30k ave dmg globally, on contrast, red team had 119k global ave player, 88k ave, 66k, ave and a mix of 45 to 55k players, one 2 of their team had less than a 40k ave dmg, so 3 players were supposed to carry 9 against 8 unicum to super unicom players. within 8 minutes the game was over due to loss of points. I can only think that map understanding is the issue or a main cause. I find it hard to believe that there are that many stupid people playing this game. It has to be a lack of understanding about how map tactics work and how each class needs to be employed in the most basic level.

What I want to know is why did you go there without support?  Since if you assume people are looking at the minimap, I can assume you were looking at the minimap also.

Sure, what they were doing is probably not conducive to a win.  But neither is expecting your team mates to do "the right thing" in any given situation.

Did you communicate with your team?

If you guys are unicum players, did you share any of your knowledge?  Talk to your team, ask them to push or move to a better spot or something?

I can understand frustration if you're offering advice (in a non-aggressive/non-arrogant manner) and they ignore you.

And a lack of position understanding is not stupidity, but a lack of experience.

Judging from your judgmental position, I doubt you approached the issue in a kind way, and instead insulted your team mates.  Which pretty much guarantees they aren't going to be cooperative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,956
[HATE]
Members
1,073 posts
17,326 battles
3 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

What I want to know is why did you go there without support?  Since if you assume people are looking at the minimap, I can assume you were looking at the minimap also.

Sure, what they were doing is probably not conducive to a win.  But neither is expecting your team mates to do "the right thing" in any given situation.

Did you communicate with your team?

If you guys are unicum players, did you share any of your knowledge?  Talk to your team, ask them to push or move to a better spot or something?

I can understand frustration if you're offering advice (in a non-aggressive/non-arrogant manner) and they ignore you.

And a lack of position understanding is not stupidity, but a lack of experience.

Judging from your judgmental position, I doubt you approached the issue in a kind way, and instead insulted your team mates.  Which pretty much guarantees they aren't going to be cooperative.

well, the cap was uncontested, no ships were spotted, most of their team was at b and c. i had 3 bbs steaming towards the cap. Why would i feel it necessary to tell them im going in to cap please don't hide form the scary DM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
545
[S0L0]
Beta Testers
1,712 posts
4,169 battles
1 minute ago, MEANN said:

well, the cap was uncontested, no ships were spotted, most of their team was at b and c. i had 3 bbs steaming towards the cap. Why would i feel it necessary to tell them im going in to cap please don't hide form the scary DM

You've got 12k battles.  You're telling me in all of those battles, you've never been left high and dry by team mates who turn around the instant some resistance forms?

Why would you assume they know what you're planning?  It used to be you could expect destroyers, for the most part, to head to cap almost immediately.  But since the carrier rework, I've noticed many destroyers hesitate in doing so.  At this point, I don't assume.  Got a feeling, from the many, many threads about the CV rework, that many destroyer players don't rush to cap any more, especially if a carrier is present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,956
[HATE]
Members
1,073 posts
17,326 battles
38 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

You've got 12k battles.  You're telling me in all of those battles, you've never been left high and dry by team mates who turn around the instant some resistance forms?

Why would you assume they know what you're planning?  It used to be you could expect destroyers, for the most part, to head to cap almost immediately.  But since the carrier rework, I've noticed many destroyers hesitate in doing so.  At this point, I don't assume.  Got a feeling, from the many, many threads about the CV rework, that many destroyer players don't rush to cap any more, especially if a carrier is present.

it was an example of many many games in many different boats that have the same theme. most of the teams run away! mm has a serious balance issue. the player base by enlarge based on 12000 games i have witnessed, there is a trend of terrible players littering the game at every level. It used to be only at the low to mid tier that you found this level of cowards and morons. That was why when very good players played 4 5 6 and 7 boats it was considered seal clubbin. Now the entire game has more unskilled players then skilled ones. So my post was to be about finding a solution to the issue of bad play. not about me and this one instance i highlighted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
786
[TOG]
Members
4,213 posts
25,120 battles
1 hour ago, MEANN said:

it was an example of many many games in many different boats that have the same theme. most of the teams run away! mm has a serious balance issue. the player base by enlarge based on 12000 games i have witnessed, there is a trend of terrible players littering the game at every level. It used to be only at the low to mid tier that you found this level of cowards and morons. That was why when very good players played 4 5 6 and 7 boats it was considered seal clubbin. Now the entire game has more unskilled players then skilled ones. So my post was to be about finding a solution to the issue of bad play. not about me and this one instance i highlighted. 

The ideal solution is that everyone acquires enough experience and knowledge to know what and what not to do. the practical solution? You'll have to prepare to carry the match.  that might not be enough in a game when you lose 3 ships to 1 in the first 5 minutes, but it has to be done. y\You'll have to be the one that slows down the enemy rush when this go south.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
667 posts
9,190 battles

The basic technical skills needed to play WoWS effectively are relatively simple and easy to learn(i.e. firing, maneuvering, angling, using cover, etc.)

For most players, however, situational awareness and the ability to analyze the minimap and the flow of the game is hard. These are the "soft skills" that actually separate good players from bad.

I'm not sure what the most effective way to teach these soft skills is.  The player's individual intelligence and instincts can accelerate the process, but in the end it's about reaching a critical mass of accumulated knowledge and experience.

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
74
[F4E]
Members
301 posts
8,301 battles
19 minutes ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

The basic technical skills needed to play WoWS effectively are relatively simple and easy to learn(i.e. firing, maneuvering, angling, using cover, etc.)

For most players, however, situational awareness and the ability to analyze the minimap and the flow of the game is hard. These are the "soft skills" that actually separate good players from bad.

It is very hard to know what other players are thinking...what they know or understand about the game.

I was in a Tier 5/6 match with a NICHOLAS who I presume was a newer player...he had no camo or flags, he was consistently launching his torps 5.5 km range) at targets so far beyond 5.5 km range that even if they steamed straight toward the NICHOLAS the torps would not reach the target...and the targets were not even bow-on...and he would jeep firing His guns at extreme range while in the red cap circle...causing himself to be detected, fired upon and hit, thus resetting the capture counter.  He could have taken that cap circle and won the game for our team, but he refused in order to chase BBs... it n a NICHOLAS (a ship I love...but it is not a BB hunter unless some prime ambish opportunity is in the offing).

i just think he didn’t know better, and he was actively uninterested in suggestions for improvement or constructive criticism...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
786
[TOG]
Members
4,213 posts
25,120 battles
15 hours ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

The basic technical skills needed to play WoWS effectively are relatively simple and easy to learn(i.e. firing, maneuvering, angling, using cover, etc.)

For most players, however, situational awareness and the ability to analyze the minimap and the flow of the game is hard. These are the "soft skills" that actually separate good players from bad.

I'm not sure what the most effective way to teach these soft skills is.  The player's individual intelligence and instincts can accelerate the process, but in the end it's about reaching a critical mass of accumulated knowledge and experience.

 

15 hours ago, MN_Nice said:

It is very hard to know what other players are thinking...what they know or understand about the game.

I was in a Tier 5/6 match with a NICHOLAS who I presume was a newer player...he had no camo or flags, he was consistently launching his torps 5.5 km range) at targets so far beyond 5.5 km range that even if they steamed straight toward the NICHOLAS the torps would not reach the target...and the targets were not even bow-on...and he would jeep firing His guns at extreme range while in the red cap circle...causing himself to be detected, fired upon and hit, thus resetting the capture counter.  He could have taken that cap circle and won the game for our team, but he refused in order to chase BBs... it n a NICHOLAS (a ship I love...but it is not a BB hunter unless some prime ambish opportunity is in the offing).

i just think he didn’t know better, and he was actively uninterested in suggestions for improvement or constructive criticism...

The way to learn positioning is two fold:

1. Watch replays of matches. Especially of CC's/unicums. Pay particular attention to the mini map and see where they position themselves. Just as importantly: how?

2. Practice. Savor the epiphany when you see it working.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,309
[0456]
Members
3,822 posts
10,091 battles
21 hours ago, MEANN said:

WG used to have a couple of map explanations on youtube. they were very good at talking about where boat types should go. where firing lanes were. Can WG produce more content like this? 

Should have stopped there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
333
[GOBI]
Members
1,086 posts
4,487 battles

I to have been seeing a lot of dd sitting at spawn, not moving forward lately until someone else takes lead. Or teams early on go for two caps, and all 3 dd go together towards one, with one going across map to join others leaving one side with no dd to spot. Safety in numbers? Don't remember if there were CV in those matches.   Or they go to cap, smoke right up without any visible enemy around yet, so no spotting. Seems they then are usually killed by enemy dd, more so if they really raced to the cap and left support far behind.

I have been in a few games recently with two CV per side, maybe was in those? I do know that even in my CL being targeted by squadrons from one CV is not much fun, two is for sure a bummer. All you can hope for is your own CV's provide some support. I do see DD's avoiding side enemy carrier is usually at, can't say I blame them if they have weak AA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,956
[HATE]
Members
1,073 posts
17,326 battles
2 hours ago, Frigate007 said:

I to have been seeing a lot of dd sitting at spawn, not moving forward lately until someone else takes lead. Or teams early on go for two caps, and all 3 dd go together towards one, with one going across map to join others leaving one side with no dd to spot. Safety in numbers? Don't remember if there were CV in those matches.   Or they go to cap, smoke right up without any visible enemy around yet, so no spotting. Seems they then are usually killed by enemy dd, more so if they really raced to the cap and left support far behind.

I have been in a few games recently with two CV per side, maybe was in those? I do know that even in my CL being targeted by squadrons from one CV is not much fun, two is for sure a bummer. All you can hope for is your own CV's provide some support. I do see DD's avoiding side enemy carrier is usually at, can't say I blame them if they have weak AA.

the cv has cause the other classes to no longer do the job that they were intended to do. a dd is supposed to be out in front of the team at to screen torps, and spot ships and control caps. not hide in the back next to the cruisers and bb. I saw one sitting by the cv, i asked him about it. he said once they kill the other dd he will come out in about 5 to 9 minutes when the cv has stopped looking for him. wow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
333
[GOBI]
Members
1,086 posts
4,487 battles
3 minutes ago, MEANN said:

the cv has cause the other classes to no longer do the job that they were intended to do. a dd is supposed to be out in front of the team at to screen torps, and spot ships and control caps. not hide in the back next to the cruisers and bb. I saw one sitting by the cv, i asked him about it. he said once they kill the other dd he will come out in about 5 to 9 minutes when the cv has stopped looking for him. wow

I hear you. Had a Gearing spend most of a game right next to our CV like he was attached to it. No enemy anywhere near. After some ribbing in chat he finally got involved with less than 5 minutes left. Guess he thought he was the CV escort? Went from spawn to the other side of the map with it down by the boundary line. 

That said MM has been really interesting last few days for me. Some games no dd, just a ton of BB and cruisers, other games 4 or even 5 dd per side. Makes play interesting when that happens. That game with 5 I never seen so many torps in the water in and around a cap for half a match. I don't think there was a single BB on either side left after the first half of the match. All dd and a few cruisers only second half. The DD's really dominated the game. No CV. I think most everyone was sunk by torps until near the end when the DD's started going after each other with guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×