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Old_Baldy_One

Naval Battles - Can we just remove base XP?

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I understand that each clan has the same requirements and challenges in regards to whatever is selected each week, but Base XP seems to be the least fun and most restrictive of all of them.

Base XP:

  • Highly dependent on winning
  • At a certain point, the majority of players need a really great game to get the star.
  • Less players able to earn stars means less enjoyment for those folks.
  • Almost completely locks out co-op players after the first couple levels, as it is almost impossible to get over 900 XP in a co-op game.

Damage Done and Ribbons:

  • Does not rely on wins at all.
  • Super co-op friendly.
  • More people able to earn more stars (I understand in the overall scheme of the contest this doesn't matter, but to the player, they feel like they contribute more if they can actually get stars)

Again, I realize that making stars easier or harder won't have that big of an impact on each game, as both sides get the same condition.  But for the player, it's a big boost to their enjoyment of the game to have the goals easier, player oriented and not as team/win reliant.  At the very least, if Base XP just HAS to stay, remove the win bonus from the equation and then restructure the scores based on that, so everyone's equal.

The only downside I can see of easier goals is that more active clans will win more often, but that just encourages clans to expand and get more active.  Don't really see the harm in that, and honestly, a clan with a lot of active folks is going to beat (usually) a clan with only a few active folks anyways.

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I see where you're coming from, and as someone who currently enjoys a particular fondness for co-op , I sort of roll my eyes whenever I see the BXP mode. 

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We don't have that many active players in our clan, but do pretty well overall.  We prefer the Base XP,  it adds to the challenge.   Win/Lose/Draw doesn't make that much difference.  You can almost make the Damage thresholds just by showing up.

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The base XP promoting playing to win is I think a net positive for the majority though I can see why Co-op mains would be frustrated by it

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If they have to leave the root canal of base xp in, then how about graduating the xp thresholds a little more closely. There could be something in between 300 and 900.

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21 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

I understand that each clan has the same requirements and challenges in regards to whatever is selected each week, but Base XP seems to be the least fun and most restrictive of all of them.

Base XP:

  • Highly dependent on winning
  • At a certain point, the majority of players need a really great game to get the star.
  • Less players able to earn stars means less enjoyment for those folks.
  • Almost completely locks out co-op players after the first couple levels, as it is almost impossible to get over 900 XP in a co-op game.

Damage Done and Ribbons:

  • Does not rely on wins at all.
  • Super co-op friendly.
  • More people able to earn more stars (I understand in the overall scheme of the contest this doesn't matter, but to the player, they feel like they contribute more if they can actually get stars)

Again, I realize that making stars easier or harder won't have that big of an impact on each game, as both sides get the same condition.  But for the player, it's a big boost to their enjoyment of the game to have the goals easier, player oriented and not as team/win reliant.  At the very least, if Base XP just HAS to stay, remove the win bonus from the equation and then restructure the scores based on that, so everyone's equal.

The only downside I can see of easier goals is that more active clans will win more often, but that just encourages clans to expand and get more active.  Don't really see the harm in that, and honestly, a clan with a lot of active folks is going to beat (usually) a clan with only a few active folks anyways.

I agree 100% with this.

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Base XP is fine.  It is a clan battle mode, so it should be influenced by winning.  You can get the low base XP thresholds easily without winning, but you really need to either have a really good game in a loss or get a half decent game in a win to guarantee that you exceed the threshold in the higher ones.  Co-op isn't a clan battle mode of play, so it doesn't scale very well for co-op.  It needs to be done in randoms, because you are really competing against what others are doing in randoms.

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6 minutes ago, Doombeagle said:

If they have to leave the root canal of base xp in, then how about graduating the xp thresholds a little more closely. There could be something in between 300 and 900.

This could help.

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8 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

The base XP promoting playing to win is I think a net positive for the majority though I can see why Co-op mains would be frustrated by it

I disagree.  I think that it's a profoundly net negative that has gotten to the point that if it's a week with Base XP Naval Battles, I outright refuse to actively participate in NBs.  Oh, I might activate NBs for that weekend, but I will literally not give a flying crap about whether I earn stars or not.  NBs based on Base XP completely suck!!!

I don't think that Naval Battles should be tied to a metric that requires winning to earn the stars, plain and simple.  I hate my success in NBs being tied to the rest of the team.  

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Here's my theory:    Anyone who plays WoWs can join a clan--that's how WG designed clans.    My clan was built on the premise of having a 50/50 mix of Random and Co-op players...we sought players who played the game often, thereby bringing oil to help the clan grow.

 

Because anyone can join a clan, and Naval Battles bring oil, all members of the clan should be able to contribute to NB's.      NB's should be either based on damage or ribbons....something that can be accomplished in either game mode.   

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28 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

The base XP promoting playing to win is I think a net positive for the majority though I can see why Co-op mains would be frustrated by it

I can agree that the game needs incentives for winning, but I think its misplaced in its emphasis in this "challenge".  Winning already has a lot of benefits, but the downside is that, even for a unicum div, its still largely about how the team does, which is largely about luck.  Yes, a div can pull off an amazing win with just the 3 of them but there are still times when, RNG says "no".

Having something tied to essentially RNG is frustrating.  I understand why game companies do it, but it is a frustrating thing for customers.  

(I may be more frustrated with RNG as of late, as I am 100% totally expecting that to get the T10 filth camo fromt he event, I'll have to get every drop of the 192k filth necessary......hopefully I'm proven wrong.)

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1 hour ago, Kebobstuzov said:

The base XP promoting playing to win is I think a net positive for the majority though I can see why Co-op mains would be frustrated by it

If players need Naval Battles to go off of base xp to encourage them to win, then that is truly a pathetic state.

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It's simple. It does suck because you are rating an INDIVIDUAL's play based on a TEAM effort. This is fundamentally wrong. You do great but they gave you a bad team so YOU don't get the star?!?!? If they were saying it was a team thing - the team wins, the team gets a star - that makes sense, but when you change any part from team to individual, then it doesn't, never did, never will make sense. If you rate the team on one of the individual's play, that would be equally wrong. Basing a player's rewards on the TEAM effort is just as wrong. If this is too hard to follow. For the adults in the room, if your work praise (ie pay raises) was based on how others did in the "team" would you think it is fair that another employee who did not do as much as you, but was on a better team gets more money then you? Wouldn't you be happier if you did well, you got the raise, even if those around you were sub-par? Ahhh.... different when you put in the people's money. LOL It is the same thing, You can NOT base an individual's efforts based on a team, nor can you base a team on an individual's effort. Should the whole team lose its stars if one of the players doesn't do well, even if they scored well enough too? How about the guy who doesn't even fire a gun, his team wins and he gets a star, you sink 3 ships take two caps, and don't get one?!?!?  The original poster is correct, it's a bad idea to reward individuals based on how their team does. The whole team gets a star, then fine, the whole team doesn't - find. Some do and some don't base on the team is just.... sorry, but STUPID.

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Heartily agree with OP, BXP is too reliant on factors beyond an individual's control for things when you have to collect it in a single game.

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On 12/20/2020 at 12:06 PM, MasterDiggs said:

Heartily agree with OP, BXP is too reliant on factors beyond an individual's control for things when you have to collect it in a single game.

And yet I play high tier ships in co-op, (8-10,) and sometimes even a tier 7, (Gorizia,) and can pretty much always clear the base levels of NB when it's bxp.

Yes, it's tough to do with lower tiers, but then if that's an issue in Co-op, then play Randoms, and don't potato.

Planning is more active clans (mine isn't very,) is needed, just like in regular clan battles. Lower skilled players who want to contribute need to be encouraged, or even assigned, to play early, in Randoms or Co-op, so they have the best chance for getting stars. Higher skilled players need to make their attemps later.

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On 11/7/2019 at 8:32 AM, Doombeagle said:

If they have to leave the root canal of base xp in, then how about graduating the xp thresholds a little more closely. There could be something in between 300 and 900.

I agree - it would keep our lower tier Co-Op players interested and trying. Right now, once they check the battles and see some early risers ate up all the 300's, they give up. Nobody is going to get 900 in those tiers. 

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On 11/7/2019 at 10:12 AM, Old_Baldy_One said:

I understand that each clan has the same requirements and challenges in regards to whatever is selected each week, but Base XP seems to be the least fun and most restrictive of all of them.

Base XP:

  • Highly dependent on winning
  • At a certain point, the majority of players need a really great game to get the star.
  • Less players able to earn stars means less enjoyment for those folks.
  • Almost completely locks out co-op players after the first couple levels, as it is almost impossible to get over 900 XP in a co-op game.

Damage Done and Ribbons:

  • Does not rely on wins at all.
  • Super co-op friendly.
  • More people able to earn more stars (I understand in the overall scheme of the contest this doesn't matter, but to the player, they feel like they contribute more if they can actually get stars)

Again, I realize that making stars easier or harder won't have that big of an impact on each game, as both sides get the same condition.  But for the player, it's a big boost to their enjoyment of the game to have the goals easier, player oriented and not as team/win reliant.  At the very least, if Base XP just HAS to stay, remove the win bonus from the equation and then restructure the scores based on that, so everyone's equal.

The only downside I can see of easier goals is that more active clans will win more often, but that just encourages clans to expand and get more active.  Don't really see the harm in that, and honestly, a clan with a lot of active folks is going to beat (usually) a clan with only a few active folks anyways.

BXP is just another "tool" to hurt PVE mains.....  And, when BXP is the earn a star criteria, ever wonder how the team your are paired against.............just happens to be a Random/Clan Battle oriented team?  Hmmmmmmmmmm........where did I put that EMP proof tin foil.......  I hate the BXP requirements......your clan score board looks like:  Player A = 10, B=10, C=7, D-E-F-G = 1 that's it.........(what ever the real numbers are for everyone to win the first star.....)

Punishment for paying to play a game..........gosh, how Darwinian.

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Ribbons can be taken care of with a Mino tapping away on a BB. Ive gotten as many as 400 ribbions if not more than that at times. IF you survive long enough to start tapping on a few BB's The Pommern is a good ribbon ship.

Base xp NB is generally panned by the clan they do try their best but only a few will get past 900 on Coop and we generally lose. So those are a write off.

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The Clan naval battles are all easier or harder for different types of players or ships. It gets hard pretty quick to get large quantities of ribbons on non-secondary battleships or CVs pretty quick, for example, while stacking up ribbons in destroyers or cruisers is as easy as holding down the fire button. Damage can be very spotty in destroyers.

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