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Bortt

AA Hit Probability

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What does that even mean?

if you have torpedo bombers coming at your broadside and you select a priority sector. Once they drop and fly over you to your other side are they now encountering less AA? In that case is it better to not select priority sector?

Is Advanced Fire Training for AA really worth 4 captain points?

Can someone explain AA.

Edited by Bortt

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2 minutes ago, Bortt said:

Can someone explain AA

I've been asking that question since January.

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30 minutes ago, Bortt said:

What does that even mean?

if you have torpedo bombers coming at your broadside and you select a priority sector. Once they drop and fly over you to your other side are they now encountering less AA? In that case is it better to not select priority sector?

Is Advanced Fire Training for AA really worth 4 captain points?

Can someone explain AA.

Don't hold me to this... But I think it is accurate,  or close.  You ship, if so equipped has 3 sets of AA (long range)....  randomly targeted flakk bursts that basically set a mine for anything flying though it and  deals heavy damage to any plane in squad inside the burst.  (Mid and short range) which are a unavoidable DOT (it doesn't miss, there is no probability it does damage all the time)  damage ticker to planes inside it.   It is subject to the priority sector.   When you select Priority sector an initial burst is added to your AA that deals an initial burst of full damage ..  I think it is 10%(?) of squadrons total HPs as long as planes are inside your AA range.  For the duration of the time PS is active its output of short and midrange AA is increased by 50%. Followed by a cooldown ......   While it is active, the other side   of your AA is actually reduced by the amount of the increase on active side.   All AA damage at any time is applied to one plane in squadron and keeps on firing at that plane only  until it is destroyed at which time it switches to a new plane.  So high AA ships run through planes very quickly.       This is my understanding of new system. 

Is Advanced Fire Training for AA really worth 4 captain points? For AA purposes no.... it does have other vlaues on some cruisers and DDs however and for some secondary builds.   

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For your hit probability question - yes it’s sloghtly out of date since it’s not talking about the aa changes since it was posted, the way the aa system works seems to be the same. 

In previous sector reinforcement implementations there was an argument to not use it since it meant planes on the other side didn’t take as much damage (although that wasn’t a good idea based on the information from LWM). In the current aa system, you definitely want to use it since it gives a burst damage to the attacking squadron in addition to the hidden buffs outlined in the post. 

For aa skills, really the only one potentially worthwhile as an aa skill is BFT since it increases continuous dps. Massive aa is only worth it in ships with very weak aa but most of them don’t have the available points for it, and aft doesn’t do much with the way flak and aa currently work (it just means that the plane that gets killed by a flak burst gets even more killed). That being said, aft and bft have other uses for destroyers as well as some light cruisers and in battleship secondary builds. 

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Continuous AA explained: Shoots all day, every day, without hitting any red planes.

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1 hour ago, Bortt said:

What does that even mean?

if you have torpedo bombers coming at your broadside and you select a priority sector. Once they drop and fly over you to your other side are they now encountering less AA? In that case is it better to not select priority sector?

Is Advanced Fire Training for AA really worth 4 captain points?

Can someone explain AA.

1) Hit Chance is odd in that there's not a chance to miss.  It just lowers the continuous damage to the percentage that "hits"

Example: 100 damage per second.  75% hit chance.  100×.75=75 damage per second.  The remaining 25 damage per second "missed".  Why they do it that way, I don't know.

2) The new Priority Sector deals upfront damage, then buffs that side's AA for a time.  You should always try to activate the sector buff at max AA range to allow the strength to ramp up while planes are heading toward you. (Note: EXCEPT FOR DESTROYERS)

If you notice planes too late and they're about to fly over you, just wait for them to pass over, then fire.

3) Flak hurts... a lot.  +15% damage on Flak doesn't change it much.  It just hurts a little more than a lot.  If you're in a ship that has 6+ bursts of Flak, then it might matter... but for the average ship it's not going to be significant.

4) LittleWhiteMouse has excellent information in the article linked above.  It's a little out of date, but the mechanics are still relevant.

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28 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Continuous AA explained: Shoots all day, every day, without hitting any red planes.

LOL...   I must have some drunk  bad pilots wrecking them then.  Because most matches in a CV,  by the end of the match I'm scrapping around and putting cooks in planes so I can muster a few more planes in the air...   

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3 hours ago, Bortt said:

What does that even mean?

if you have torpedo bombers coming at your broadside and you select a priority sector. Once they drop and fly over you to your other side are they now encountering less AA? In that case is it better to not select priority sector?

Is Advanced Fire Training for AA really worth 4 captain points?

Can someone explain AA.

The thread linked to above that LWM did in May, covers the basics, but there have been changes since then. Especially that the medium range AA no longer creates flak bursts. Here is the wiki for AA fire and it is up to date.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Anti-Aircraft_Fire

 

tldr as I will cover the very basics below. See the wiki for more detail

AA is broken into three ranges of short, medium and long, with slight variations in range based on caliber of the guns.

 

Short and medium range AA has continuous DPS, Damage Per Second, that is modified by the AA hit chance of the ship. i.e. 100 DPS with a 70% hit rate does 70 DPS on average. The continuous DPS does damage to the last plane in the squadron, until the plane is killed, and then attacks the next last plane. This way a flight that is attacking, will have the spare planes in the squadron shot down first and the planes in the attacking flight shot down last.

 

Long range AA has the same type of continuous DPS as above, but also generates flak bursts as well. These flak bursts only do damage if a plane flies into the burst and it does a LOT of damage. The bursts are aimed at the predicted flight path, so dodging can mitigate the bursts.

 

Priority sector is a way to buff the AA on one side of the ship at the expense of the other. It boosts the continuous DPS by 35%-50% and lowers the other side by the same amount. It takes 5-15 seconds to cool down and runs for 10-15 seconds. See the wiki or in-game stats to see which times each ship class has. The instantaneous damage is  3.5% to 5% of the current squadron HP depending on ship class.

 

Here are the things that buff AA.

 

Ship upgrades

AA Guns Modification 1 (AAGM1) is in slot 3 (T5+ ships) and adds +2 flak bursts. So a ship with 3 flak bursts can get 5 flak bursts with AAGM1 in slot 3. NOTE, flak bursts are only a part of long range AA, so if a ship does not have any long range AA, AAGM1 will not help you.

 

AA Guns Modification 2 (AAGM2) is in slot 6 (T9+ ships) and adds +15% continuous DPS to all AA ranges and +15% damage to flak bursts.

 

Skills

Basic Firing Training {BFT) is a 3 point skill and adds +10% continuous DPS to all AA ranges, subtracts -10% of the reload time of main guns of 139mm or less, and subtracts -10% reload time of all secondary guns of any size.

 

Massive AA Fire (MAAF) is a 4 point skill and increases the instantaneous damage in a priority sector by +100%, so it is 7% to 10% of the squadron's current HP when priority sector is used. It also increases the cool down time by 50%, so it is 7.5s to  22.5s to cool down depending on ship type. 

 

Advanced Firing Training (AFT) is a 4 point skill and adds +15% to the damage of flak bursts (long range AA), adds +10% to the range of main guns of 139mm or less, and adds +10% to the range of all secondary guns of any size.

 

 

For the upgrades, you only use AAGM1 on ships with long range AA and most don't bother if the base flak bursts are 3 or less. For AAGM2, most ships have another slot 3 that helps the ship more. 

For the skills, they are almost always taken in the order of BFT,  MAAF, and AFT last. Most will skip AFT unless they want to buff the range of small caliber main guns or secondary guns and then the AA buff is just an extra.

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3 hours ago, iRA6E said:

LOL...   I must have some drunk  bad pilots wrecking them then.  Because most matches in a CV,  by the end of the match I'm scrapping around and putting cooks in planes so I can muster a few more planes in the air...   

What a sad little fairy tale that is total nonsense since all your planes regenerate.

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7 minutes ago, Umikami said:

What a sad little fairy tale that is total nonsense since all your planes regenerate.

:Smile_facepalm::Smile_facepalm::Smile_facepalm:

Each plane takes time to regen, so there is an absolute cap on the number of planes that can regen in a match.

 

The Hosho Rocket planes regen the fastest at 44 sec per plane. That is 27 planes over 20 minutes at most, IF you lost a rocket plane in the first 12 seconds at the beginning of the match and continued to lose rocket planes every 44 seconds. Planes only regen if you have open slots on deck, so you can not regen planes until you lose planes. Once you fill the deck with that type of plane, regen of that type of plane stops.

 

Saipan's torpedo planes have the longest regen at 143 seconds. Most seem to be in the 80ish second range based on a quick look see. If you want more specifics, you should gather the stats, but your little 'infinite' planes conspiracy theory is not based on facts. 

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

Each plane takes time to regen, so there is an absolute cap on the number of planes that can regen in a match.

And each captain has the freedom to attack who he wants, how he wants; so if he ends up waiting on his planes to regenerate it's because he screwed up.

1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

your little 'infinite' planes conspiracy theory is not based on facts. 

If you'll look at my post, I never said "infinite planes", what I said was all your planes regenerate, which they do. And that is a fact, not a theory.

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3 minutes ago, Umikami said:

And each captain has the freedom to attack who he wants, how he wants; so if he ends up waiting on his planes to regenerate it's because he screwed up.

If you'll look at my post, I never said "infinite planes", what I said was all your planes regenerate, which they do. And that is a fact, not a theory.

I put infinite into quotes as you did not say that word, but your ALL your planes regen strongly implies that. ALL of your planes DO NOT regen, unless you have open spots on your deck, because you lost planes.

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

, but your ALL your planes regen strongly implies that.

No, it implies nothing, but says exactly what it says, that all your planes regenerate. (and why would your planes need to regenerate unless they were damaged or destroyed?) And while they may not regenerate before the end of the match, neither do my guns always reload before the match ends, nor my torps reload before the match ends. So please do stop trying to put words in my mouth that I never said because you don't like my point of view.

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

No, it implies nothing, but says exactly what it says, that all your planes regenerate. (and why would your planes need to regenerate unless they were damaged or destroyed?) And while they may not regenerate before the end of the match, neither do my guns always reload before the match ends, nor my torps reload before the match ends. So please do stop trying to put words in my mouth that I never said because you don't like my point of view.

Yeah, ok. :Smile_sceptic:

 

2 hours ago, Umikami said:
5 hours ago, iRA6E said:

LOL...   I must have some drunk  bad pilots wrecking them then.  Because most matches in a CV,  by the end of the match I'm scrapping around and putting cooks in planes so I can muster a few more planes in the air...   

What a sad little fairy tale that is total nonsense since all your planes regenerate.

 

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Lower AA accuracy artificially inflates the time between ticks to simulate a lower rate of hits.

If you mistime your priority sector usage, yes, you can end up with enemy planes on the weakened side for longer than they were on the strengthened side, effectively meaning you lowered your own AA dps.

AFT has nothing to do with damage ticks (it affects flak bursts).

All relevant info can be found on the Wiki, which has a section dedicated to AA mechanics.

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5 hours ago, Umikami said:

If you'll look at my post, I never said "infinite planes", what I said was all your planes regenerate, which they do. And that is a fact, not a theory.

It's normal CVs have planes regenerating up to the end of the battle... Imagine CVs would run out of planes after 12 minutes, what then does a player? Sail around with his CV trying to hide? By the way, no ship in the game ends up alive without any armaments active... Would be the same situation, driving around with your DD, BB, etc To end squadrons flying around, there is only one way, sink the CV, same with any other ship.

There are some aspects that could be changed, for ex, regeneration cycles longer if CV is damaged, but that would mean lower initial regeneration values and developing a mechanism to calculate damage, etc I don't think WG team is planning to invest time on this at the moment.

Also, AA incapacitation... Ships AA is 100% alive even if the ship has 1% of her health... Same, à mechanism could be developed where AA is progressively incapacitated. But this would require to increase initial AA power and develop a damage mechanism. AA would be so intense the first 10 minutes that CVs should wait for team mates to incapacitate red AA. Don't thin WG team is considering to develop this.

Etc

CVs and AA mechanics are probably perfectible, but now they work. Most of the player base is ok with the balance. Some players still complain and will continue whining here. They should learn about the CV mechanics and more, they should learn how to team with the CV. 

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8 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

The thread linked to above that LWM did in May, covers the basics, but there have been changes since then. Especially that the medium range AA no longer creates flak bursts. Here is the wiki for AA fire and it is up to date.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Anti-Aircraft_Fire

 

tldr as I will cover the very basics below. See the wiki for more detail

AA is broken into three ranges of short, medium and long, with slight variations in range based on caliber of the guns.

 

Short and medium range AA has continuous DPS, Damage Per Second, that is modified by the AA hit chance of the ship. i.e. 100 DPS with a 70% hit rate does 70 DPS on average. The continuous DPS does damage to the last plane in the squadron, until the plane is killed, and then attacks the next last plane. This way a flight that is attacking, will have the spare planes in the squadron shot down first and the planes in the attacking flight shot down last.

 

Long range AA has the same type of continuous DPS as above, but also generates flak bursts as well. These flak bursts only do damage if a plane flies into the burst and it does a LOT of damage. The bursts are aimed at the predicted flight path, so dodging can mitigate the bursts.

 

Priority sector is a way to buff the AA on one side of the ship at the expense of the other. It boosts the continuous DPS by 35%-50% and lowers the other side by the same amount. It takes 5-15 seconds to cool down and runs for 10-15 seconds. See the wiki or in-game stats to see which times each ship class has. The instantaneous damage is  3.5% to 5% of the current squadron HP depending on ship class.

 

Here are the things that buff AA.

 

Ship upgrades

AA Guns Modification 1 (AAGM1) is in slot 3 (T5+ ships) and adds +2 flak bursts. So a ship with 3 flak bursts can get 5 flak bursts with AAGM1 in slot 3. NOTE, flak bursts are only a part of long range AA, so if a ship does not have any long range AA, AAGM1 will not help you.

 

AA Guns Modification 2 (AAGM2) is in slot 6 (T9+ ships) and adds +15% continuous DPS to all AA ranges and +15% damage to flak bursts.

 

Skills

Basic Firing Training {BFT) is a 3 point skill and adds +10% continuous DPS to all AA ranges, subtracts -10% of the reload time of main guns of 139mm or less, and subtracts -10% reload time of all secondary guns of any size.

 

Massive AA Fire (MAAF) is a 4 point skill and increases the instantaneous damage in a priority sector by +100%, so it is 7% to 10% of the squadron's current HP when priority sector is used. It also increases the cool down time by 50%, so it is 7.5s to  22.5s to cool down depending on ship type. 

 

Advanced Firing Training (AFT) is a 4 point skill and adds +15% to the damage of flak bursts (long range AA), adds +10% to the range of main guns of 139mm or less, and adds +10% to the range of all secondary guns of any size.

 

 

For the upgrades, you only use AAGM1 on ships with long range AA and most don't bother if the base flak bursts are 3 or less. For AAGM2, most ships have another slot 3 that helps the ship more. 

For the skills, they are almost always taken in the order of BFT,  MAAF, and AFT last. Most will skip AFT unless they want to buff the range of small caliber main guns or secondary guns and then the AA buff is just an extra.

Thx, Wiki is extremely clear. Takes some time and energy to understand... Often, we ask questions here while the answers are provided in the Wiki. And still people take the time to answer. That's the very positive side of the forum!!! 

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4 hours ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Thx, Wiki is extremely clear. Takes some time and energy to understand... Often, we ask questions here while the answers are provided in the Wiki. And still people take the time to answer. That's the very positive side of the forum!!! 

You are welcome

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14 hours ago, Umikami said:

What a sad little fairy tale that is total nonsense since all your planes regenerate.

You only regenerate all your planes if you lose them slower than about 1 per minute. Any faster, and you lose them faster than they can regenerate. Note that the reserve planes on the deck are not part of regeneration.

So depending on circumstances, you may or may not regenerate all your planes.

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

You only regenerate all your planes if you lose them slower than about 1 per minute. Any faster, and you lose them faster than they can regenerate.

But they still regenerate, though not as fast as you'd like, I'm sure. Many of the ships I play don't reload as fast as I like either, but they still reload.

1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

So depending on circumstances, you may or may not regenerate all your planes.

Nonsense, although I will give you that they might not all get done regenerating before a match ends, they are still regenerating.

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1 hour ago, Umikami said:

But they still regenerate, though not as fast as you'd like, I'm sure. Many of the ships I play don't reload as fast as I like either, but they still reload.

Nonsense, although I will give you that they might not all get done regenerating before a match ends, they are still regenerating.

I was just being a stickler. You said they all regenerate, which is not necessarily true.

The end of the match halts the regeneration, just as death halts the regeneration of a broken leg.

Edited by Skpstr

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