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Wanturskul

Citadeled a Montana with Minotaur

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Last night I was finishing the Legendary upgrade on my Minotaur and I somehow managed to citadel a Montana.  I was sitting about 14km away from him and he did go full broadside, but I didn't think it was possible for the RN 152mm rounds with their short fuses to pen a citadel on the Montana.  I don't think I have ever citadeled a BB with the Mino until last night.  I was laughing pretty good when it happened.

Does anyone know if there is a weak spot on the Montana armor model that allows this to happen?

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It's possible it was a ricochet through the deck, I've seen some similar wonky results.

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Do you have a replay file still left? (by default last 30 battles are stored)

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I personally think there's a bug in the Montana's armor model, I've seen some really weird citadels on her.

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23 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I personally think there's a bug in the Montana's armor model, I've seen some really weird citadels on her.

I wouldn't be surprised. Remember how North Carolina's citadel extended outside her hull in places until they updated her model to use more polygons?

 

EDIT: or how even destroyers could citadel Iowa/Missouri by hitting the bridge with HE?

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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20 minutes ago, Ryuu_kun said:

Do you have a replay file still left? (by default last 30 battles are stored)

Yeah, it is on my home computer.  I will try to upload it tonight.

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You found the exhaust port, but thought it was ray shielded - guess they did not think a snub-nosed Minatour was much of a threat, or they would have had a tighter defense

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1 hour ago, Wanturskul said:

Last night I was finishing the Legendary upgrade on my Minotaur and I somehow managed to citadel a Montana.  I was sitting about 14km away from him and he did go full broadside, but I didn't think it was possible for the RN 152mm rounds with their short fuses to pen a citadel on the Montana.  I don't think I have ever citadeled a BB with the Mino until last night.  I was laughing pretty good when it happened.

Does anyone know if there is a weak spot on the Montana armor model that allows this to happen?

Yeah, no way a Mino should be able to pen a Monty at that range. Even at point blank I don't think it can do it. Must be a buggy model. I think weird things can happen with bounces off turret and bridge casements. I suspect that's what happened, hit a barrel, ricocheted off the bridge conning tower and then deflected by the bottom of a turret into the citadel (or something like that:Smile_teethhappy:). The high autobounce angle may have come into play as well. Basically rare shell bounce, but when you hose something with that many shells, the rare things do have a better chance of happening.

Could also be a bad model, that has happened before, and the idea gets kicked around every time something like this happens. But I would think that if part of a hitbox extended out of the ship Monty would take a lot of odd hits, and I haven't seen evidence of that. Weirdest one was a while ago someone detonated a GK from the front with Harugumo (100mm) AP at close range.

Weird things happen. Some times they're bugs. But play enough games, and the most improbable things will happen.

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Not a bug in the model. It's entirely possible for a 152mm shell to pass underneath the citadel protection which happens often with GK (I'm guessing barbette deflections can cause citadels too which is what often happens with GK), or hit into the weak citadel deck. Most likely this was a null citadel bug though, sometimes you get a citadel ribbon when a shell deflects off of a citadel and doesn't cause damage. If you have a replay we can have a look at which of these happened.

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2 hours ago, Wanturskul said:

Last night I was finishing the Legendary upgrade on my Minotaur and I somehow managed to citadel a Montana.  I was sitting about 14km away from him and he did go full broadside, but I didn't think it was possible for the RN 152mm rounds with their short fuses to pen a citadel on the Montana.  I don't think I have ever citadeled a BB with the Mino until last night.  I was laughing pretty good when it happened.

Does anyone know if there is a weak spot on the Montana armor model that allows this to happen?

I have done this with Mino on more than one occasion before it is rare but it happens.

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You'll have a hard time replicating Minotaur to regularly Citadel a Montana.

You won't have a hard time replicating Montana Citadeling the ever-living-sh*t out of Minotaur.

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You'll have a hard time replicating Minotaur to regularly Citadel a Montana.

You won't have a hard time replicating Montana Citadeling the ever-living-sh*t out of Minotaur.

But according to a subset of the playerbase, one of these situations is acceptable and the other is not.

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The montanas citadel is indeed weird.

I remember Flamuu showing the armor profile of it, not the ingame one, but he got it from somewhere. And in that picture the citadel is out of the ship for some reason. Near the mid of ship.

Thats the reason why Monty gets citadelled at weird angles and by ships that shouldnt citadel it.

Even i have gotten multiple citadels on Monty with my mino couple of months ago. You just need the shells to hit a spot where the armor bug is i.e where the citadel is coming out.

You can ask flamuu on his stream and he might show the armor picture im talking about

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18 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

But according to a subset of the playerbase, one of these situations is acceptable and the other is not.

I remember still when the French BB Line was brand new, there were Training Room tests of people using Furutaka to Citadel FR BBs with her 8" AP, even Republique.  Flamu even had a video laughing about that.

 

Yet that can't be replicated easily in a game.  People had a big laugh about it, "What has WG done to FR BBs?"  They can't replicate that in a game where that enemy player BB is maneuvering and trying to kill you also.

And here we are, FR BBs are better off than German and USN Battleship Lines performance-wise.

 

As a Cruiser Main, there were 2 BBs I generally feared even at range:

Yamato for her Overmatching power and Accuracy despite only 9 or typically 6 guns being fired.

Montana with her 406mm x12 smashes Cruisers quite well.

Conqueror with her 419mm x12 technically should be just as dangerous, but too many of her players use HE and that can't outright delete Cruisers like her AP could.  But a few of her players do switch shells for the right situation, those are the ones you don't want to deal with as a Cruiser.  The short fusing 419mm AP x12 is bad news for a Cruiser.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I've had it happen with Mino vs both an NC and Iowa. Both times while spamming the rear qtr from around 14-15 km.

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3 hours ago, Panzer1113 said:

You found the exhaust port, but thought it was ray shielded - guess they did not think a snub-nosed Minatour was much of a threat, or they would have had a tighter defense

LAGtvPn.gif

 

 

Edited by neptunes_wrath

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

As a Cruiser Main, there were 2 BBs I generally feared even at range:

Yamato for her Overmatching power and Accuracy despite only 9 or typically 6 guns being fired.

Montana with her 406mm x12 smashes Cruisers quite well.

Conqueror with her 419mm x12 technically should be just as dangerous, but too many of her players use HE and that can't outright delete Cruisers like her AP could.  But a few of her players do switch shells for the right situation, those are the ones you don't want to deal with as a Cruiser.  The short fusing 419mm AP x12 is bad news for a Cruiser.

Fear the Repub with legendary mod...fast reload can really surprise a CA player...but the range limit does help the CA out or anyone else for that matter...legendary Repub works best in CWs... tighter game play areas, maps./

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I citadelled a Montana with Kiev once. I was behind him and I shot AP at him. I don't know where the shells hit him, but I got a Citadel ribbon. I imagined there was a bug somewhere, and indeed it seems there is.

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11 hours ago, Ryuu_kun said:

Do you have a replay file still left? (by default last 30 battles are stored)

Here is the replay file.  I watched the replay and unfortunately you can't see where the shells land.  I put shells in the air at the Montana then changed targets to a Gearing, but you can see the Citadel ribbon popup. 

20191104_181532_PBSC110-Minotaur_19_OC_prey.wowsreplay

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Was reading this topic earlier...just got out of a game and citadelled a Soyuz in my Neptune...I was amused!

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13 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Conqueror with her 419mm x12 technically should be just as dangerous, but too many of her players use HE and that can't outright delete Cruisers like her AP could.  But a few of her players do switch shells for the right situation, those are the ones you don't want to deal with as a Cruiser.  The short fusing 419mm AP x12 is bad news for a Cruiser.

So many ships just sit broadside on to me in the Conqueror assuming all I'm going to fire is HE.

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16 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

But according to a subset of the playerbase, one of these situations is acceptable and the other is not.

A sub set of a sub set is fine with it.

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