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Signals and Premium Consumables?

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Well, I'm spending more time posting in PVE Content than playing today, but here's another piece of gristle upon which I'm masticating:

On the "general advice" (which means PvP advice mostly) of the videos, I've been using premium consumables and quite a few signals in my battles.  But I've come to the conclusion they're mostly wasted in Co-op, because the battles don't last long enough for you to need more repairs or 4 bobs at the sonar apple.  More speed is wasted, because in Co-op, you're defending yourself before you've significantly cleared the spawn.  So starting today, I'm saving the signals and consumables for Randoms, Ranked, and Clan battles.

Anyone else come to the same conclusion?

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Yes.  The only premium consumable I sometimes use in Co-op is Damage Control Party II.  I also don't waste signals in Co-op.  Multiplying the small XP gains is not worth the signals...if you play Randoms at all.  If you ONLY play Co-op, there is no point saving them for game modes you don't play.  Same with camo.  I'll run the credit camo that reduces detection on my DD's and cruisers, but I save everything else.

Edited by desmo_2

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I usually only run camo, unless I forget to un-enable auto resupply. If in a cv I usually run a flooding signal regardless of mode. If they are running the %200 specials on XP I might pile on some more flags to really max it out.

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14 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

So starting today, I'm saving the signals and consumables for Randoms, Ranked, and Clan battles.

Correct. Save signals in co-op for when you are closing in on the end of a grind.

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26 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Correct. Save signals in co-op for when you are closing in on the end of a grind.

Exactly this.  If you have the bonus camos to spare, utilize these to finish a grind as well.  The standard permacamo will do just fine for the first 80% or so of the grind.  I don't run ships without camo.

I never use premium consumables in co-op battles.  I only use them occasionally in operations.  I maximize signal flags in operations.

I do not spend free xp on module ship upgrades.  The base ship will perform well enough.  Save that free xp for ships.

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I will still use some economic signals (xp) a bit to speed up a grind, or more credits on those ships that tend to lose credits in co-op, but that's about it.  I was mostly referring to the combat signals, I think they're wasted in co-op.  I do have a Georgia, so when credits get low, a dozen battles in Georgia seems to help make that pinch go away.  Atlanta does the same, to a lesser degree.  I'm a big fan of premium ships, and my wife gave me a Wal-Mart gift card she won at a banquet raffle, that was only slightly bigger than the price of Georgia - a nice thing for her to do, I must say - and I almost didn't notice that WG takes Wal-Mart gift cards!

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5 minutes ago, Captain_Slattery said:

The standard permacamo will do just fine for the first 80% or so of the grind.

My feelings on permacamos are mixed. If I can't bear to put the ship down, if I want to play it in PvE over and over again, I will generally buy a permacamo for it - hopefully when they are half price. I always look for opportunities to win permacamos, especially for higher-tier ships, and WG has been obscenely generous in that regard this year, e.g. with the French DD and Italian cruiser line releases, and the Bionic camos in the space battle events (US heavy cruisers and French cruisers T6 to T9). 

If a ship is frustrating hot garbage, I won't bother. It'll stay in my port for snowflakes and I'll make do with one-shot camos and Equal Speed Charlie London flags (which resource containers spew out in satisfying numbers).

I don't buy permacamos for premium ships UNLESS they offer something far above and beyond what the standard one does. e.g. they offered permacamos for Warspite, Shinonome and Graf Spee earlier this year which cost as much as a T10 permacamo but which give 100% XP (the usual is 50%) and 30% more credits, thus enabling you to make pretty much Randoms-level XP on a good co-op battle. I bought the Warspite and Shinonome ones, because I really like both ships and would play them a lot.

 

2 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

I was mostly referring to the combat signals, I think they're wasted in co-op. 

Largely true. If you have a lot of fire flags, they're POSSIBLY worth using for when there are fire-lighting directives, but YMMV.

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Yeah, premium consumables and some signals aren't much use in coop. You just don't have time for more than one maybe 2 uses of a consumable, and the cooldown isn't that helpful. Same with signals, it's just a YOLO anyway, so things designed for long term survival aren't much use.

In addition, you don't earn as much in coop, so you really feel the added cost of premium consumables.

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I usually run one or two economic signals as well, especially if playing at higher tiers.  

The combat signals I save for the Randoms that I do play.  

I still have some Frosty Fir Tree camo from two years ago that I am using up, and am never in danger of running out of useful camos.  That is one thing that I seem to always get plenty of.

The premium consumables are not justified in my experience.

Have fun!

 

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Agreed!  In general, coop rewards are too low to pay for the additional costs of flags and camo. I'm currently running some economic flags on high tier ships to use some of the up, seeing that having over a thousand of them is a bit much. I also buy and run the perma camo on the high tier ships I'm keeping. I never run premium consumables when playing coop. I save those for clan battles and special missions.

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Just now, jager_geist said:

A long time ago I knew not to use premium consumables in CO-OP.

Yeah, but I wasn't playing a long time ago - it took me about 20 days of using them to realize it's not a net gain.  :)

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Yeah, for co-op, I don’t run any premium modules, load bland camo and am very selective on signals. Running them in randoms, even in a loss feels like a better investment.

 

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The ones I keep mandatory for Premium Consumables in Co-op are my Battleships.  Often BBs are called in to "seal the win" after everyone else has derped.  Many times in a Battleship, I'm left to fight against 5 or so bots still.  I try to manage the fighting where I limit the amount I fight at the same time, but sometimes that gets hard to do.  I had plenty of cases where something like my GK, Republique are fighting 3 ships at the same time, all firing at me, and it's left for me to win the match.  In those cases, you need the Premium Consumables for DCP & RP for a Battleship.   You don't need Premium Catapult Fighter, Hydro (High Tier Tech Tree German BBs, Duke of York), Spotter Plane, Radar (Missouri), Defensive Fire (DOY and Thunderer), those aren't needed.

 

Sometimes it's a debate to keep it for my DDs because the fights tend to be real short, yet I found many games where I needed the next charges of Smoke sooner rather than later.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I use the Premium time, the perma camo, and the standard economic signal flags, in Coop.

For the standard economic signal flags, I only use them at high tiers. For low tiers, you don't really need them, so I don't use them.

I personally think using those three resources in Coop is just okay. Yes, Coop matches are shorter and smaller, with reduced rewards, but the cost of grinding through a tech tree still remains the same, regardless of the mode that you play, and grinding through high tier ships are expensive. If you're like me and are pretty much a PvE-only player, then I say it's worth it to make use of the aforementioned three resources, even in Coop.

And if you need a little more boost, then those fancy temporary camos, earned for free from various events, can come in handy. That being said, I personally try to save them for the Operations. The Operations last long enough, and the reward can actually match what you get from the Random, so it's definitely worth the usage there. And ditto for the premium mythical-creatures signal flags; I strictly use them in the Operations only. 

As for the Premium consumables, I never use them, ever. Any extra charges hardly matter in theCoop, since the Coop is so short. Now, the Operations are much longer and a bit different story... but even then, I just don't bother with them at all, and I do just fine, most of the time... lol.

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  Signals?  YES!  Co-op grinds are long enough, and often the economic flags are the difference between you losing credits- and making a few.    Thus, I always equip economic flags- I have lots and lots of them, so why not?   I rarely play anywhere else, so why save them.

  Other signals, usually not.  I'll use secondary flags on my French BB's, just to make them that little bit more meme-worthy, and anti-det flags on my DD's.   Occasionally, anti- fire, repair party boost,  and cooldown shortener flags on my US BB's.   But many get little or no use.  Probably why I have nearly 800 of the one that boost flooding chances by 15%, but increases your chance of detonating.

Premium consumables?   Rarely.   I use to use Premium DCP relegiously, until I got a bit low.   I then took a break to let them build back up- and forgot all about them, lol.   I have been using it some on my DD's.  Lately EVERY salvo that hits me blows up everything on the ship...   Fragile cruisers will sometimes get them, too.

  The point to premium consumables isn't really the extra use- it's the shorter cooldown!

  The only ones I ever really use are DCP and Repair party II.   I rarely use radar or hydro, and even when I do it's only once.   As a cruiser and BB guy primarily, and a lover of gunboat DD's- I mostly forget I HAVE smoke, lol.

  I should point out,  I use these things because I have them in stock.   If I had to spend credits or dubs each time, I'd think long and hard- and then go without.    But since WG hands them out by the fistful for just about any reason, I always have plenty on hand!    The only exception is the economic flags- I use those every game, and when I run low, I buy a supply drop from the premium shop.  (and it's ALWAYS the repair discount flag that runs out, because it rarely drops...)

  And that's why a dedicated pve-er like me has ridiculous amounts of credits and free XP on hand- no matter what I spend.    For example,  the other day I researched and bought Yorck; Hipper, and Roon- and upgraded every module.   I grumbled about the "huge" dent it put in my credits- I went from almost 180 million to 145 million, lol.  Yep- real poor!   Still had 1.2 million FXP as well.   I'm now back up to 160 mil, from grinding the eff out of the directives and clearing a bunch of challenges, combat missions and personal missions out.

  If you're a Co-op main, and you have them- use them.  WG is pretty free with handing them out, so you'll get more.    If you do both pve and pvp, you'll get more bang for your buck from using them in pvp.    Never buy them in port- if you have to have them, watch for deals and buy them in bulk if you use a lot.

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22 hours ago, Episcopo said:

Well, I'm spending more time posting in PVE Content than playing today, but here's another piece of gristle upon which I'm masticating:

On the "general advice" (which means PvP advice mostly) of the videos, I've been using premium consumables and quite a few signals in my battles.  But I've come to the conclusion they're mostly wasted in Co-op, because the battles don't last long enough for you to need more repairs or 4 bobs at the sonar apple.  More speed is wasted, because in Co-op, you're defending yourself before you've significantly cleared the spawn.  So starting today, I'm saving the signals and consumables for Randoms, Ranked, and Clan battles.

Anyone else come to the same conclusion?

Premium Consumables:

In general paying full price for most of the PC's are not worth it in Co-op. 22.5K credits each can be your entire profit at some tiers, or drop you into the red by a lot if you use multiple ones, and many games you never take advantage of the extra charge (but there is more to them than that - see below). With that said I do use them (some) and also take advantage of every opportunity to stock pile them (I load every ship I have up with them the night before a discount ends - 9K or 4.5K each). I then demount them all the next day and keep the ones I want and sell any off (11.25k each) I don't want. This lets you run 2-3 at the cost of 1 more or less.

Depending on the ship I generally run a PC or 2. While many say they are a waste as you seldom use the extra charge of it (true - but I have used them all many times as well) what they miss about them is they also have a faster reload. So you may not use that extra charge but you will have the consumable available faster during the game and you will end up being able to use more of that consumable with Premium than you would standard even when the extra charge doesn't get used. Having that consumable become available faster can save you big time in Co-op with the brawling, up close, meta. 

My most used ones are...

  • Premium DCP: It helps a LOT on every ship type (but CV). Bots are infamous for their fire starting ability, super accurate aim, ghost torps, and such. Having a faster reloading DCP can be a big help in Co-op where you fight close and for most of the match. I use it on pretty much every ship T6+.
  • Premium Repair. I tend to run it on the ships that have it at least T7+. I do not sit back and snipe from the back line in BB's. I close in and fight up close and thus due to the bots ability to farm damage on you fast it is a big help. 
  • Premium Smoke: Use it on all DD's and Cruiser's that have it.

I will at times use the other ones as well but I never pay full price for them. I will use the ones I stockpiled during a discount period or free ones but 22.5K for speed boost, hydro, etc... is not worth it even in my eyes. Premium Consumables are not wasted as a blanket statement in Co-op however and especially so if you only play Co-op like I do.


Signal Flags & Camo:

Flags and camo's are most definitely NOT wasted in Co-op. They actually become mandatory in the higher tiers to make profit.

I have perma camo's for most every ship I have T6+ and I will run that or a one time use camo (never on T9 or T10 though - always the perma) if it gives something I need and/or at a better %. The bonuses from camo's are never wasted. 

Flags are also very useful and almost a must for high tier play in Co-op. At least if that is the only mode you play. If you primarily play PVP to keep your credit reserves up then a few Co-op games where you lose some is no big deal. BUT, if like me you only play Co-op, and at all tiers, then camo and flags are a must for both XP and credits.

I also boost this further with Premium time.


You can play Co-op exclusively as FTP through T6. I did it. You won't make huge profits and XP grinding is super slow but you can do it. Once you hit T7+ though Premium time and camo/flags become necessities. Flags, camo, PC's, etc... also help immensely when it comes to missions tasks and campaigns and such. 

As said though, if you only play Co-op occasionally and PVP is your main mode things change. But for the Co-op main these things are not wasted; they are needed. Having a lot of Premium ships helps in Co-op a lot as well just as in PVP.

And FWIW I currently sit on 125 Million Credits, 700K FXP (with 9 Million elite that can be converted), 950K Elite Capt XP, and have every current line done to T10 (239 ships in port at present). I have 29 19pt Capt's with a handful more closing in on it. Have all the special Capt's except Yamamoto as well (no path to completion through Co-op or I would). All in Co-op but for my 171 Randoms. Without Premium time, flags, camo, premium ships, and even PC's (because they help you do better and thus earn more) I would not have 1/2 of what I do.  I don't feel anything I have used has been wasted because it was used in Co-op.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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AdmiralThunder, I agree with you that the economic signals are essential for grinding, but mostly I feel like I've been wasting the combat ones in Co-op, and certainly I've wasted a lot of premium consumables because in the game they just ended up not even used.  Seldom (on those rare occasions) when I needed extra iterations or faster cool-down have I had them mounted, and when I mount them, they aren't called for.  Catch-22.  Exception being Damage Control, the faster one is often nice to have, but at 22.5k credits, often puts me in the red for credits in co-op.  I'm not broke, but would be going backwards 5 to 10k per average battle using premium DCP (especially in Tier IX, where I lose money doing 100k damage as often as not).

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2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Without Premium time, flags, camo, premium ships, and even PC's (because they help you do better and thus earn more) I would not have 1/2 of what I do.  I don't feel anything I have used has been wasted because it was used in Co-op.

This is true, but yours is a special case because you no longer play any other mode. If co-op were a sentient being, you'd be singing "Saving all my love for you" to it as you went into battle. :Smile_teethhappy:

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

You can play Co-op exclusively as FTP through T6. I did it. You won't make huge profits and XP grinding is super slow but you can do it. Once you hit T7+ though Premium time and camo/flags become necessities.

I'd be inclined to call T7 the cutoff. That's the point at which you need to do well, though, otherwise you go home in the red. T8 as FTP in co-op? That's definitely the point at which your lower tier tech-tree ships have to start bankrolling the high tiers. Beyond that, if you want to play sustained FTP at Tier 9 or 10, you need an FXP or coal ship.

I am continually finding myself in credit trouble because my grinds are NOT complete. I've put a cap on the tiers I grind to, but even then Wargaming tortures me by tossing free permacamos my way and justifying the upward shift of that cap. I'm already asking myself which of my T7's I should promote to Tier 8, and which of my Tier 8's I should promote to T9. 

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Overall great advice!

If you are going to do some random battles but mostly co-op (as I tend to do), then saving the premium consumables and the signal flags that buff the ship for randoms seems like a good idea.

Using economic flags however in co-op, especially when you get close to the next ship or next captain skill point is something I agree with too. At tier 8 in Co-op earning credits gets much harder, at tier 7 you can even sometimes have a bad battle and come up slightly in the red or with few credits to show for it, and sometimes you get a good game and good credits, so at that point the +credit signals start becoming more of a necessity.

Tier 5-6 co-op for credits seems to be the sweet spot especially if you picked up a tier 6 premium from the recent event, I have recently got 100K + credit games repeatedly in the Perth.

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The only combat ones I use on a regular basis are fire and torp damage on Atlanta and Flint and some of my t9 DDs, Det flags on DDs, and Ramming flags on BBs when I feel "in the mood". In a t7-10 game I usually run the complete gamut of economic flags, usually means I have to buy a 300 pack every month or so. TBH in terms of entertainment it's worth it to me.

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I NEVER run Premium consumables. I'm a hoarder and they are too hard to get. :Smile_veryhappy: I do run ALL 5 credit-earning flags and occasionally the dragon flag when I need to get XP for a ship's Captain.

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I have thousands of camos, some of the signal flags I have > 1000. I have piles of premium consumables. I'm using them nowadays and it seems I'll never run out ;)

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I used combat and economic all the time.  Then I read this thread and thought about it.

I run a premium account and am otherwise too cheap to pay for said items.  I will buy a "perma" camo for keepers.  Occasionally I will run economic signals.  Specifically free XP signals.  I have enough of each type to.. well knit multiple articles of clothing out of.  

Otherwise I just woke up a couple of weeks ago with a play smarter not harder mindset.  No point in wasting the time I'm willing to invest in WoWS.

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On 11/5/2019 at 8:22 AM, Episcopo said:

Well, I'm spending more time posting in PVE Content than playing today, but here's another piece of gristle upon which I'm masticating:

On the "general advice" (which means PvP advice mostly) of the videos, I've been using premium consumables and quite a few signals in my battles.  But I've come to the conclusion they're mostly wasted in Co-op, because the battles don't last long enough for you to need more repairs or 4 bobs at the sonar apple.  More speed is wasted, because in Co-op, you're defending yourself before you've significantly cleared the spawn.  So starting today, I'm saving the signals and consumables for Randoms, Ranked, and Clan battles.

Anyone else come to the same conclusion?

Definitely true. The only time to use premium consumables or camo is in PvP and Scenarios. Economic signals likewise unless you're just drowning in them. Combat signals can differ - if you're trying to speed-grind objectives, particularly the ones for earning fire or flood ribbons, the combat signals help a lot, and since they're not overly hard to come by, using them to grind those ribbons in co-op is not a bad idea.

Really the rule of thumb is not to use any signals or camos unless you're doing something specific. If you're just playing random co-ops and not grinding anything in particular, leave your ship nekkid.

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