I find it hilarious how crappy the AA on the DM is now

[Legio_X_]

No more bow tanking in with a CV in the match. Your just going to lose half your life. AA (even with DFAA) does nothing to planes to stop any incoming attacks. I remember when the DM use to be a no fly zone. 

[Navalpride33]

The only thing stopping a CV player from tanking at least 1/3 of your HP, is their bad aim...

AA is broken, and Ichase is responsible for advocating disproportionate AA DEF CV changes and CV changes in general...

[Legio_X_]

Just now, Navalpride33 said:

The only thing stopping a CV player from tanking at least 1/3 of your HP, is their bad aim...

AA is broken, and Ichase is responsible for advocating disproportionate AA DEF CV changes and CV changes in general...

when there is a hak in the match you cant do crap.

[Skpstr]

10 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

No more bow tanking in with a CV in the match.

I sympathise, but at the same time, I hate all the reversing/stationary WoT-style gameplay.

[Bortt]

There's a lot of talk about Smolensk's being OP now. At least people can sail out of range or go behind an island. If you're a DD and you have a CV hunting you, you're 1 - 2 minutes from dead. At least with a Smolensk, you need someone else to spot for you while you sit in smoke. There's nothing more OP in this game that a CV.

[Navalpride33]

6 minutes ago, Bortt said:

There's nothing more OP in this game that a CV.

I disagree, OP naa.... Disproportional in dealing DMG... Yes...

I also think every single ship class has this problem not just the CV class..

[pikohan]

AA on everything is crap now. Just varying degrees of it.

[Legio_X_]

You are forced to sail around with a hak in the game if your a DM. Any Hak player worth his salt will instant delete you if u stop for 1minute with his AP bombs. Hell i lost half my health couple of games ago in a DM from a Audacious Bombing run. I think im just gonna stay away from this ship for awhile. It requires static gameplay and i just dont see that working right now, with how crap its AA is.

[Cpt_RickSchwifty]

CVs DPM is pretty bad though....save T10 AP bombs. 

I mean you gotta have a terrible team to break 150K dmg in a CV under T10 these days. I think WG is kind of in a corner when it comes to AA.

You either have enough AA to wipe an entire squad and the CV never gets to attack, or you make it so the CV can *always* get at least a single attack off before they loose their squads. Getting "Deplaned" is not even a thing anymore for anyone but Saipan...maybe if the game goes to 16 minutes and the CV is garbage they will have light squads.

 

But how do you balance something like AA when the Non-Cvs are demanding to be immune to AA attacks as they were before and calling it balance. Personally I think the answer to AA is and ALWAYS has been to buff loiter damage. WG has the right kind of idea with the ~ key AA buff but it needs to work differently. Your AA should just do more and more DPS for every second the air group is in your bubble, DDs included make the ~ key just shoot out like 2-3 more flaks where your cursor is or something. The CV will get their attack off, and they can not just mercilessly camp a ship as their AA will start shredding planes the longer they stay near, they would at least have to disengage beyond your AA radius between strikes.  

[ElectroVeeDub]

Roughly translated as:

"Island humping is suddenly dangerous and gets me punished for bad behaviors.

My DM gets hit by 4 planes while camping a 300ft tall island, then it melts the other 8 planes after getting citadel-led. Game must be broken. It's not because I was playing poorly. I'm supposed to never lose even 1hp to a CV ever."

 

[Umikami]

Oh, but if you ask a CV driver tier 8 and 10 ships just eliminate planes almost before they take off because AA is so powerful. (What a crock!)

[KiyoSenkan]

What's this? You're forced to move? You can't just camp behind an island?

[Frigate007]

If you hate CV's just play a Friesland, CV's worst nightmare. Watched a video of one shooting down over 100 planes. Excellent AA!

[Cpt_RickSchwifty]

3 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

If you hate CV's just play a Friesland, CV's worst nightmare. Watched a video of one shooting down over 100 planes. Excellent AA!

No one is having an issue shooting down planes. The issue is CA's want to be immune to AA attacks as they were before and don't enjoy getting 3x citadel'd from an AP bomb group that they have no way to stop. Honestly I think the AP bombs are what is broken not the AA>

[Alabamastan]

    I got back to back achievements the other week in DM for shooting down planes, I think some of this is a user error. If being a stationary target or semi stationary target is not working for you maybe try something else. This is like DDs who do not turn their AA off and sail straight and never turn or deploy smoke saying CVs take them for half their health in a hit and they can't do anything with CVs around.

[Navalpride33]

5 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

What's this? You're forced to move? You can't just camp behind an island?

Then change the in game parameters so that CLs dont have a need to have rocks as a wifey...

Till then it is what it is...

[KiyoSenkan]

Just now, Navalpride33 said:

Then change the in game parameters so that CLs dont have a need to have rocks as a wifey...

Till then it is what it is...

Maybe you should talk to Zao, who does not have incredible AA, has shell arcs that are not conducive to island hugging, and is doing just fine.

[Navalpride33]

1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Maybe you should talk to Zao,

Kiyo, High tier in game experience is brutal for cruisers not only for plane harassment, but AP and HE spam as well...

Picking cruisers with BB range is a pity way to resolve the problem... The Henri is good to but then its this long range snooze fest...

[ElectroVeeDub]

5 minutes ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

No one is having an issue shooting down planes. The issue is CA's want to be immune to AA attacks as they were before and don't enjoy getting 3x citadel'd from an AP bomb group that they have no way to stop. Honestly I think the AP bombs are what is broken not the AA>

Listen... the definition of a broken game is when you have one class that's entirely immune to another... cruiser players are rapidly starting to sound like NooBB's.

[AJTP89]

2 minutes ago, pikohan said:

AA on everything is crap now. Just varying degrees of it.

Equal tier yes. If the CV is equal or higher tier then all your AA does is make pretty puffs. But if the CV is lower tier, then he can't get near you. Had a Missouri game the other day, good game actually, very close. At the end, I was low tier, been HE spammed all game, so I have to imagine a lot of my AA was gone. Enemy Lexington was trying to finish me, he couldn't get near me. What was left of my AA was still ripping through his squadrons, never got a bomb off. I'm not AA spec, I might have the AA upgrade (forget right now) but nothing else. And still just deleted everything. Had that been a Hak or Midway I probably wouldn't have even made it that long. The tier difference in AA and planes is absurd. WG f**ked up AA big time, and it's still broken. Upgrades and captain skills are useless, national flavor is gone. The only thing that matters is tier and DF. They wanted to make AA less random, they did that so well you might as well remove AA and just remove a set amount of planes from the squad before they attack a certain target, depending on the tier difference.

 

9 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

You are forced to sail around with a hak in the game if your a DM. Any Hak player worth his salt will instant delete you if u stop for 1minute with his AP bombs. 

That's not necessarily a bad thing, CVs absolutely discourage passive play. I actually like that aspect, and I think WG intended it. And I say this as a DM player. The issue is that a) a good CV player doesn't care if you're moving, he can still delete you. b) the meta is still such that DM doesn't work well in the open, and c) that a ship that is supposed to have some of the best AA in the game can't to squat to protect itself against a CV. WG didn't want no fly zones, but what's the point of high tier AA cruisers if they don't delete any plane in range? I'm not saying that every ship should be a no fly zone, but there is nothing wrong with a couple ships being no fly zones. The problem is that WG gave too many ships great AA, and then over compensated by giving every ships crap AA. A middle ground would be still allowing certain ships to have great AA (if upgraded properly, which would require them to fix AA captain skills), while others are vulnerable to CVs unless they (gasp) team up with an AA ship.

[iRA6E]

32 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The only thing stopping a CV player from tanking at least 1/3 of your HP, is their bad aim...

AA is broken, and Ichase is responsible for advocating disproportionate AA DEF CV changes and CV changes in general...

Ichase....Ichase....Ichase...Ichase....    You really got a thing for Ichase...

On the OP.. Des Moines AA still makes it a less than favorable target that I know going in I can only get a single attack off on.   It's not Mino or Worchester sure death but still very good.    Bow tanking against any CV is not a good idea in any ship..  A tier 10 CV against a static target will more often than not land all its ordinance, which in the case of a T10 CV and a few T8 CVs be apretty considerable hit.

[Legio_X_]

14 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

What's this? You're forced to move? You can't just camp behind an island?

In my experience I’m not even behind the island for one minute until the CV focus you. What im saying is the DM is designed to be a bow tanker, either. Either behind an island or open water with no reds on flanks. CV basically negates that.

[KiyoSenkan]

3 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Kiyo, High tier in game experience is brutal for cruisers not only for plane harassment, but AP and HE spam as well...

Picking cruisers with BB range is a pity way to resolve the problem... The Henri is good to but then its this long range snooze fest...

Zao has to fight in open water and doesn't seem to be getting chunked to death by battleships

Maybe you just have to, oh what is it all the radar cruiser mains kept spouting when destroyers brought up how unfair and unbalanced radar was?

Oh right.

Adapt.

[Nevermore135]

Pre-rework, having AA be powerful enough that certain ships, especially with AA specs, could near instantly delete a squad before they could attack was not broken (you could argue unbalanced, but not broken), because a CV player could overwhelm them with multiple squads. The CV would pay a heavy price in plane casualties, but the CV could damage and potentially sink the AA ship.

Post-rework, there is only one squadron in the air at once (at least under player control). Having AA strong enough that a stationary ship has no fear of receiving damage from a skilled CV player would be all kinds of broken. One of the key balance features of WOWs is that every ship is and should be able to damage and potentially sink any other ship in the game. There should be as few hard counters in this game as possible.

BBs have to alter their play style in DD heavy matches. DD players adopt different tactics in matches where there are multiple radar cruisers (or a CV) vs none. Island-camping cruisers should be no different. Having to adjust your style of play based on the capabilities of the ships you are facing leads to more dynamic gameplay and is good for the game.

[Legio_X_]

13 minutes ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

No one is having an issue shooting down planes. The issue is CA's want to be immune to AA attacks as they were before and don't enjoy getting 3x citadel'd from an AP bomb group that they have no way to stop. Honestly I think the AP bombs are what is broken not the AA>

You think losing 1 air squad for 13-15k damage is good?