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Col_Nasty

If PTS is final, COOP will be much better..IF....BIG IF!

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IF you want to play Hard.. against GOOD bots. WG has done WELL making COOP not a simple run and gun fest. This will only upset the people who just come to farm XP and Creds. for events.  COOPS want the fight to last..well it LASTS!  I forget that I am playing BOTS at times...sneaky lil bastids have tricks!!!

Problem is I just got a T 10 COOP round with.... 

233 K Damage

42 planes shot down.

5 kills

5 fires 6 floods

3 defended

2 caps

 3 spots

Even with flags and camos I LOST  -9,875 credits   Not cool!  If I DIDN'T have Premium I would have lost -85, 470!!!!!

I hope this isn't how it ends up when released. What's the use of making it better when NO ONE will play it?

Col Out

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Losing credits is the norm in tier 10 co-op. If you want to make credits or at least break even you need to drop down to the middle tiers.

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So WG finally decided to release the smart toasters . It's only been a year since their first appearance. ....finally a good coop showdown . Woot.

 

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Oh man, the Coop guys are not going to be happy to see their 95% WR take a hit. There's going to be a lot of whining from people who think they're better than they are because they've been playing easy mode. There are some who just play coop to avoid other players, but there are definitely going to be very vocal few.

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Sounds great...I take my Kami boats to COOP to finish off Kill-based directives.  Can easily see 5 or more kills per battle, every battle.

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Eh,  not sure what I think of this.  It doesn't effect me personally,  I just dip my toes into co-op to test out new boats or practice in more difficult ones or to rarely speed through some directives,  but there are people who live and breath the mode.  Some of those people may just want a relaxing time playing with shooty botes and not want a constant knock down drag out.

Like I said though,  I don't have a horse in this race.  I just hope WG hasn't knocked its co-op crowd in the head.

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31 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Oh man, the Coop guys are not going to be happy to see their 95% WR take a hit. There's going to be a lot of whining from people who think they're better than they are because they've been playing easy mode. There are some who just play coop to avoid other players, but there are definitely going to be very vocal few.

I doubt it. I have played thousands of coop games. Not once has WR ever been discussed, and I once belonged to a coop-only clan.

The obsession with WR is something that people who sneer at coop are afflicted with. Coop players are entirely free of it.

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22 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I doubt it. I have played thousands of coop games. Not once has WR ever been discussed, and I once belonged to a coop-only clan.

The obsession with WR is something that people who sneer at coop are afflicted with. Coop players are entirely free of it.

Three years and 20k games played and I haven't ever seen that either. The only people who go on about co-op player's win rates are PvP players...................... I actually mentioned sarcastically about my win rates in two posts that I can remember, oddly enough in reference to new bot AI... 

The new AI won't affect wins, just time played. Every other iteration of the bot AI hasn't been any harder to beat, it just takes longer to do it. This destroys co-op's profitability. I watched the last few times when the kiting AI was put into the game and players just left the matches because they grew tired of chasing down fleeing bot ships. It was boring, much like PvP play.

To the OP, playing tiers 9 & 10 rarely pay out well in PvE and one reason I never play them. The other is I don't find the ships any more fun than playing tier 4 & 5 ships... 

Edited by Taylor3006
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1 hour ago, Col_Nasty said:

IF you want to play Hard.. against GOOD bots. WG has done WELL making COOP not a simple run and gun fest. This will only upset the people who just come to farm XP and Creds. for events.  COOPS want the fight to last..well it LASTS!  I forget that I am playing BOTS at times...sneaky lil bastids have tricks!!!

Problem is I just got a T 10 COOP round with.... 

233 K Damage

42 planes shot down.

5 kills

5 fires 6 floods

3 defended

2 caps

 3 spots

Even with flags and camos I LOST  -9,875 credits   Not cool!  If I DIDN'T have Premium I would have lost -85, 470!!!!!

I hope this isn't how it ends up when released. What's the use of making it better when NO ONE will play it?

Col Out

In Co-Op you lose credits, especially at high tiers, it has always been that way @AdmiralThunderwould agree with me. It's meant to incentivize you to play random or drop to lower tiers. 

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1 minute ago, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

In Co-Op you lose credits, especially at high tiers, it has always been that way @AdmiralThunderwould agree with me. It's meant to incentivize you to play random or drop to lower tiers. 

Or dole out cash. (Premium time/Premium ships)

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16 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Or dole out cash. (Premium time/Premium ships)

The OP said he had been using signals & premium time hence the complaint. Without the permanent camos that reduce the service costs by 50%, profitability is hard to maintain even on good games. This is one reason I never play the tech tree tier 10s because I won't shell out the cash for camo and one reason I only use the Freemium tier 10 ships (when needed) that come with it. Just makes sense to me. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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17 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Or dole out cash. (Premium time/Premium ships)

...plus permanent camo makes Techtree  tier 9 & 10 profitable.

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6 minutes ago, SlightlyComatose said:

...plus permanent camo makes Techtree  tier 9 & 10 profitable.

^ This.

You really need the perma camo for the highest tiers, on top of the Premium time, to stay profitable. The standard economic signal flags can also help, if some can be spared for use.

Edited by Blorgh2017

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It's worth remembering that good AI has existed ever since 0.7.9, it's just that it became necessary to switch it off again. What you're seeing on the PTS is basically that, and I don't think we'll be seeing it on the live server again anytime soon. Sure, it's different to what we have currently, but because the AI is only reacting in scripted ways and not adapting it's still a predictable bag of tricks and therefore not any better. It's just going to catch the unwary out and take a lot longer to finish for no extra rewards; same as before.

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5 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

It's worth remembering that good AI has existed ever since 0.7.9, it's just that it became necessary to switch it off again. What you're seeing on the PTS is basically that, and I don't think we'll be seeing it on the live server again anytime soon. Sure, it's different to what we have currently, but because the AI is only reacting in scripted ways and not adapting it's still a predictable bag of tricks and therefore not any better. It's just going to catch the unwary out and take a lot longer to finish for no extra rewards; same as before.

Yah, I don't actually think it'll go live. But like bots, forum users become quite predictable. Thought it would be interesting watching the reactions. 

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Losing credits is the norm in tier 10 co-op. If you want to make credits or at least break even you need to drop down to the middle tiers.

True, but if bots become more of a challenge, then shouldn't the rewards be increased commensurately?

 

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

I doubt it. I have played thousands of coop games. Not once has WR ever been discussed, and I once belonged to a coop-only clan.

The obsession with WR is something that people who sneer at coop are afflicted with. Coop players are entirely free of it.

Yo Tai, well said, I pretty much only play coops', and have not yet heard one comment in the clan about WR, or from other coop players. And I do not regard the 'general' PvP crowd as being above PvE players, except in 'bad chat' and tantrums.

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2 hours ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

I guess WG thinks it is time to declare kindergarteners are going to be promoted to the 1st grade whether they like it or not.

 

1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Oh man, the Coop guys are not going to be happy to see their 95% WR take a hit. There's going to be a lot of whining from people who think they're better than they are because they've been playing easy mode. There are some who just play coop to avoid other players, but there are definitely going to be very vocal few.

These type of comments serve no purpose other then to agitate. Nothing constructive is added to the discussion.

BTW, I've yet to see a player brag about their win rate in coops.

2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Losing credits is the norm in tier 10 co-op. If you want to make credits or at least break even you need to drop down to the middle tiers.

This is a straight to the point factual reply.

1 hour ago, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

In Co-Op you lose credits, especially at high tiers, it has always been that way @AdmiralThunderwould agree with me. It's meant to incentivize you to play random or drop to lower tiers. 

Playing T8's & above does cost more & has been that way for at least 2 years. For me playing lower tiers is preferable to randoms far more often than not. The drama in randoms does take a lot of fun out of the game. Just my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

Playing T8's & above does cost more & has been that way for at least 2 years. For me playing lower tiers is preferable to randoms far more often than not. The drama in randoms does take a lot of fun out of the game. Just my opinion.

When I first started, the "old economy" was still in play. The forums were filled with complaints about losing credits. Luckily I was a noob and was not playing upper tiers yet and benefitted greatly from the economy rework. IIRC back then, the tier 10 camos did not provide a reduction in service costs either so it was pretty painful for everyone. What we have now is a far better system even though you can still lose credits playing upper tiers. I can not imagine what it must have been like at high tiers in the olden times.... 

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3 hours ago, Taylor3006 said:

When I first started, the "old economy" was still in play. 

This was the time when you loose money with a premium tier 8 DD (loyang) in coop doing well.

I leave the game for many months in that occasion.

There a lot of games out there.

Regards

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6 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

I hope this isn't how it ends up when released. What's the use of making it better when NO ONE will play it?

I'll play it. So will others.

WG figured out a long time ago that there is a segment of the population that simply prefers PvE over PvP in general, and that no amount of (de-)incentivization is going to change that. If you don't like strawberry ice cream, making vanilla or chocolate less attractive isn't going make you buy strawberry, just shop for chocolate somewhere else.

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I've been playing the PTS as always, and have noticed another change, when you get a mid tier match and you're the only human, the red bots seem to play much better than the green ones.
I've seen this a lot on the PTS and have lost matches due to green bots melting away, and the red bots capping and winning on points.
The red bots are just outplaying the green team, even with 3-4 even 5 kills, it's increasingly harder to carry in the 9v9 meta in the lower tiers.
Having said that, I can still make decent credits at tier X and have yet to lose a battle at high tier, even solo.

So I'm not sure what that's all about with the lower tiers, only thing I can think of are the boats themselves,
High tier I play Harugumo, Kitakami, and GK, Krem boats that are tanky and and boats with high fire power, but you have to play more conservatively now, the days of yolo rushing will just get you killed that much faster, AI almost never miss the target.
I'm also seeing a lot less matches with CV's, I think WG has thrown in the towel on trying to make them work, and perhaps have noticed how easy it has been for PVE players to farm them for XP/credits.  
But as already said, I highly doubt the AI from over there will makes it's way here any time soon.
If it does, it'll sure spice things up around here! :Smile-_tongue:

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8 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Oh man, the Coop guys are not going to be happy to see their 95% WR take a hit. There's going to be a lot of whining from people who think they're better than they are because they've been playing easy mode. There are some who just play coop to avoid other players, but there are definitely going to be very vocal few.

Weak trolls are weak.  People play co op not for WR, but in part to get away from people that do give a flying fig about WR. 

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