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Is SAP Italian version of Deep Water Torpedos?

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Seems Italian SAP is useless against BBs (only got ricochet or non-penetration).

is this Italian gimmick? Only good against DDs & CLs?

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DWT's are effective against larger targets, and DD's with them can use guns effectively against targets that DWT's can't hit. Between guns and torps, it's a complete weapon system.

SAP just isn't effective. On Zara for example, SAP maxes at 5050 damage, and will almost never citadel anything, so it's really limited to 1683 damage if it actually pens and she can do this every 14.5 seconds with 8 barrels. She can also bounce.

Myoko can do 3300 max with HE rounds, which translates to 1100 damage in most cases with a 14.7 sec reload and 10 barrels. She can't bounce, doesn't care about angling, and can cause fires.

In all truth, Italian cruisers are probably better off trying to snipe cruisers that turn broadside with AP, that's 4800 damage on a citadel, 1600 damage on a pen, which you're fairly likely to get against broadside cruisers.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

DWT's are effective against larger targets, and DD's with them can use guns effectively against targets that DWT's can't hit. Between guns and torps, it's a complete weapon system.

SAP just isn't effective. On Zara for example, SAP maxes at 5050 damage, and will almost never citadel anything, so it's really limited to 1683 damage if it actually pens and she can do this every 14.5 seconds with 8 barrels. She can also bounce.

Myoko can do 3300 max with HE rounds, which translates to 1100 damage in most cases with a 14.7 sec reload and 10 barrels. She can't bounce, doesn't care about angling, and can cause fires.

In all truth, Italian cruisers are probably better off trying to snipe cruisers that turn broadside with AP, that's 4800 damage on a citadel, 1600 damage on a pen, which you're fairly likely to get against broadside cruisers.

 

 

You are not wrong on this in any way. Sap just is meh even improved bounce angles will not make up for the lack of DOT damage or its horrible ROF. Sap needs to more. Maybe waterline flooding?

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DWTs are pretty good even though they're specific.  PADD DWTs wreck their applicable targets not so much because of high torpedo damage, but because their detection range is so low.  Even in Cruisers, the DWTs appear so late, so close that there's no time to maneuver much.  For a BB to eat a bunch of torps, it hurts bad, but for Cruisers, especially with little time to evade, they're screwed as they don't have the HP and Torpedo Defense System of BBs to take torpedo damage.  Torps on Cruisers is often fatal.

 

Even the very, very specific BBs - CVs target selection of Asashio's torpedoes still give Battleships nightmares.

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SAP is just sh*t as it stands now.

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2 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

DWT's are effective against larger targets, and DD's with them can use guns effectively against targets that DWT's can't hit. Between guns and torps, it's  was a complete weapon system.

SAP just isn't effective. On Zara for example, SAP maxes at 5050 damage, and will almost never citadel anything, so it's really limited to 1683 damage if it actually pens and she can do this every 14.5 seconds with 8 barrels. She can also bounce.

Myoko can do 3300 max with HE rounds, which translates to 1100 damage in most cases with a 14.7 sec reload and 10 barrels. She can't bounce, doesn't care about angling, and can cause fires.

In all truth, Italian cruisers are probably better off trying to snipe cruisers that turn broadside with AP, that's 4800 damage on a citadel, 1600 damage on a pen, which you're fairly likely to get against broadside cruisers.

 

 

ftfy, the YY nerf killed that ship.

I can't agree that the italians should try to snipe out other cruisers though, their detection is poor. the IJN are honestly better for this role. Also worth noting in your example, the Myoko has better dispersion, and is more likely to hit its target.

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7 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

ftfy, the YY nerf killed that ship.

I can't agree that the italians should try to snipe out other cruisers though, their detection is poor. the IJN are honestly better for this role. Also worth noting in your example, the Myoko has better dispersion, and is more likely to hit its target.

All the IJN Heavy Cruisers got buffed (IIRC) early 2019 to get the "Zao dispersion" which is laser accurate.  Myoko for example can land a scary amount of shells.  Lord help a DD if the IJN CA player's aim is right.

But Zao is scary not only because of her accuracy and Hellfire Shells, it's just her shell velocity skyrockets compared to every other prior tier of ships within her own line :Smile_veryhappy:  She can duel at range with the best of them.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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The issue with SAP that I find is that AP overlaps a lot in its use. SAP is amazing against broadside targets but if you can citadel or most of the enemy's side is as armoured as Soviet or German BBs, you should shoot AP. Since SAP is also so weak against really angled targets that you're better off not shooting, I get many games where all I do is hunt for those DDs and broadside targets and end up shooting AP almost all of the time. It also doesn't help that Italians get some of the best 203mm AP in the game.

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If you can put your SAP salvo right into a BB superstructure then it can be pretty lol. It also seems to be good at penetrating battleships with the weak all-over-plate (like Richelieu and British BBs).

Doesn't start fires and not brilliant against BBs by any means and lacking a defined role - but it's not without punch when it lands. Don't aim at any real armour with SAP, that's all.

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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

SAP is just sh*t as it stands now.

Pretty much.

The advantage to HE's fires is that they at least maintain - and sometimes gain - strength over time (depending on what ship type you are shooting at). Especially vs. battleships, any tradeoff in saturation is gradually overcome by the loss of heals - when the heals are gone, the BB bleeds out.

SAP lacks the fire, so it gets to richly enjoy the saturation without any payoff - it's an anemic ordinance that massively declines in strength almost immediately, and is nigh-on useless by the end of matches.

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SAP is far from useless. Ask a broadside Republic how useless SAP from the Amalfi is, nevermind the higher tier cruisers yet to be released. 

I think people have just become so used to the mindless HE spamming cruiser play that they don't know what to do when a higher skill ceiling ship gets introduced with ammo that requires more thought than just camping an island and firing away. That's not saying that SAP or the Italian cruisers are perfect. They can certainly use some treaks. Can't get damage on a bow on BB? Well, try moving your ship, or go after another target. 

We go through the same thing every single time something different is introduced. Oh... short duration smoke is going to make the Brit DDs useless. Nope. Lack of smoke is going to make the French DD's suck. Nope. 6 guns on a tier 9 BB won't work. Nope. SAP sucks because you can't damage a BB head on. Nope... at least not from my experience. There are other ships to shoot at most of the time. 

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8 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

All the IJN Heavy Cruisers got buffed (IIRC) early 2019 to get the "Zao dispersion" which is laser accurate.  Myoko for example can land a scary amount of shells.  Lord help a DD if the IJN CA player's aim is right.

But Zao is scary not only because of her accuracy and Hellfire Shells, it's just her shell velocity skyrockets compared to every other prior tier of ships within her own line :Smile_veryhappy:  She can duel at range with the best of them.

Which is funny because Zao is a trade magazine wet dream with WAG at a prototype rifle shell characteristics. While the Italian 203mm shells are the 1924 models with some Teflon coating on the HE shell to reduce drag. :cap_win:

5 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

The issue with SAP that I find is that AP overlaps a lot in its use. SAP is amazing against broadside targets but if you can citadel or most of the enemy's side is as armoured as Soviet or German BBs, you should shoot AP. Since SAP is also so weak against really angled targets that you're better off not shooting, I get many games where all I do is hunt for those DDs and broadside targets and end up shooting AP almost all of the time. It also doesn't help that Italians get some of the best 203mm AP in the game.

Italian 203mm AP in general is actually toned down. :cap_yes:
 

it’s all pointless Lesta will remain tone deaf about anything regarding Italian ships. 

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7 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

The issue with SAP that I find is that AP overlaps a lot in its use. SAP is amazing against broadside targets but if you can citadel or most of the enemy's side is as armoured as Soviet or German BBs, you should shoot AP. Since SAP is also so weak against really angled targets that you're better off not shooting, I get many games where all I do is hunt for those DDs and broadside targets and end up shooting AP almost all of the time. It also doesn't help that Italians get some of the best 203mm AP in the game.

I have to agree. currently SAP needs to be sent back to the drawing board.

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