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JaysUsedBoatParts

Super Yamato. WHEN!?? I got 100-200 bucks ready!? and its Historical!! Gimme!!

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I found this whilst trying to find optics info on the yamato....

 

In 1934, Japanese League of Nations delegates were
angered by sanctions imposed on their country by that
organization over the Manchurian Affair and Japan withdrew
from that august body and renounced all naval treaty
obligations.<1>  Soon after, long term plans were
considered along with the possible actions and reactions of
foreign nations, particularly potential adversaries such as
the United States.  Along with the preliminary design of
the future YAMATO class, plans were drawn up that,
hopefully, would allow Japan's pace for expansion to remain
unhindered without triggering a war with America until the
fleet was ready.  The cornerstone of this belief was the
battleship armed with the highly secret 18-inch gun.

     After quitting the League of Nations, specific minimum
requirements were drawn up dealing with future capital
ships.  These included:<2>

Armament:
     Main Battery:     18.1" or larger
     Secondary:        12-155mm in tripled turrets, or
                        8-203mm in twin turrets
Speed:                  over 30 knots
Range:                  8,000 nautical miles at 18 knots
Armor:                  Immune Zone<3> of 20,000-35,000
                        meters against the 18.1" gun

     According to these long-term plans, battleship
superiority was to begin in 1936, with the construction of
7 YAMATO class ships, each with nine 18-inch guns, which
would enter service in 1941.  During this same time period,
it was believed the United States would begin building an
unknown number of new battleships armed with 16-inch guns.
As the YAMATOS entered service, construction would start
on four SUPER YAMATO battleships, armed with six 20-inch
guns, two of which became designs 798 and 799; with
completion estimated for 1946.  Again, during this time
period America, it was believed, would probably begin
service with her new 16-inch gunned battleships and start
constructing the first ships armed with the 18-inch weapon.
In 1946, Japan felt she would then begin rearming the
seven original YAMATO class ships with six 20-inch guns at
the same time the four SUPER YAMATOS entered service.
America, in 1946, would commission her first 18-inch armed
battleships and begin building the first 20-inch gunned
ships that Japan felt could not ready before 1951.  By 1946
with this plan, Japan would have at least eleven
battleships armed with 20-inch guns on duty and, Japanese
naval authorities believed, capable of handling any threat
the US Navy battle line could mount.  Victory could be
assured by intimidation alone with their "Peace Goddesses
of the Pacific," and if war was unavoidable, Japan's super
battleships would be irresistible.  "The side whose ships
possessed the largest guns would win the battle."  Of
course, all this required the United States to act as
predicted

 

 

here is the link to the whole read https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt

@Femennenly

@_RC1138

 

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts
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In terms of game mechanics, the A-150 design's 510mm guns wouldn't overmatch anything that Yamato's 460mm guns couldn't already. And it loses 3 barrels in exchange. Sounds like a downgrade to me personally.

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7 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

In terms of game mechanics, the A-150 design's 510mm guns wouldn't overmatch anything that Yamato's 460mm guns couldn't already. And it loses 3 barrels in exchange. Sounds like a downgrade to me personally.

I dont think so. Also note the speed at 30 knots and badazz secondaries with upgrade or switchable options that can be incorporated into the game.

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts
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Wargaming has said™ that they won't add anything with guns bigger than Yamato's 18.1". 

So we'll probably never see Super Yamato. 

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11 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

In terms of game mechanics, the A-150 design's 510mm guns wouldn't overmatch anything that Yamato's 460mm guns couldn't already. And it loses 3 barrels in exchange. Sounds like a downgrade to me personally.

I forget the ratio, but what thickness  of armour would 510s overmatch?

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On 11/1/2019 at 7:11 PM, ramp4ge said:

Wargaming has said™ that they won't add anything with guns bigger than Yamato's 18.1". 

So we'll probably never see Super Yamato. 

WG does what I tell them to do. :Smile_trollface:  We need it, and its frickin history. Its fresh and exciting content. This is a home run.  we also need to fix the optics though. its just not jiving with the range capabilities. Vanila zoom needs some chocolate!? 

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts
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3 hours ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

I forget the ratio, but what thickness  of armour would 510s overmatch?

Up to 35mm, where 460mm overmatches 32mm.

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Aircraft Carriers entered service with multiple Navies.  
Battleships could sink Aircraft Carriers, if they could get close enough.
Meanwhile, Aircraft Carriers proved able to damage or sink a variety of ships from a great distance.
During all of this War remained costly, in lives and materiel.

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I would really enjoy this if it was released.... :Smile_playing:

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19 minutes ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

I dont think so. Also note the speed at 30 knots and badazz secondaries with upgrade or switchable options that can be incorporated into the game.

30 knots isn't exactly impressive in a world where Georgia can go 38-39ish.

The 'many' 100mm guns of the A-150 would give the ship very good AA for a IJN ship. However they already exist as secondaries on some ships, and in such a role they are extremely lackluster. WG could try making the ship a secondary ship like Mass and Georgia of course, but imho that would be a bad choice. A-150 as a Yamato successor design i suspect would be given the Yamato style citadel. And what about the turret traverse and reload speed of these 20.1 inch guns? Those are probably going to be tragic at best.

I'd love to see A-150, just to see A-150, but I think it would end up worse than Yamato, or more of a sidegrade at best.

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Let's just ignore ships like Georgia, and Thunderer that has less barrels, but better gun handling in exchange.

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7 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

30 knots isn't exactly impressive in a world where Georgia can go 38-39ish.

The 'many' 100mm guns of the A-150 would give the ship very good AA for a IJN ship. However they already exist as secondaries on some ships, and in such a role they are extremely lackluster. WG could try making the ship a secondary ship like Mass and Georgia of course, but imho that would be a bad choice. A-150 as a Yamato successor design i suspect would be given the Yamato style citadel. And what about the turret traverse and reload speed of these 20.1 inch guns? Those are probably going to be tragic at best.

I'd love to see A-150, just to see A-150, but I think it would end up worse than Yamato, or more of a sidegrade at best.

We gotta bring BBs back into the game. This is a great opportunity for the IJN BB line and its historically based. 

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts

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Honestly, it's more of a down-grade in-game and irl.

 

In-game, the increase in overmatch capability by 3mm nets you nothing useful, and the loss of a third of your barrels won't be offset much by penetration and damage increases, since those will only have niche uses against battleships.

 

As for the real world - 510mm guns are too large to be practical. Japan ran into this issue when designing the A-150 battleships. Efforts to create a 4x2 or 3x3 design resulted in ships in excess of 90,000 tons, which was too large and practical to be built. As a result, the maximum feasible battery that could be carried was six guns, in three twin turrets, with a secondary battery of the dual-purpose 10cm/65 Type 98's. As it was, it was going to be necessary to built the 460mm armor belt in two layers, drastically reducing the actual strength of the planned armor belt (in fact, it would have been only slightly superior to Yamato's, if that)

In fact, as if to add insult to injury, the main battery firepower of A-150 would have been overall inferior to that of Yamato- her broadside would have only about 89% of the mass of Yamato's, and due to the larger caliber the rate of fire would have been less. Furthermore, while there would have been no practical increase in the range of the main battery (35,000 yards was the effective limit of battleship gunnery in this era), there would have been an increase in the difficulty of fire control, due to the total gun count hovering on the minimum necessary for effective fire control - six guns. Whether this would still apply to such slow-firing weapons as a 510mm gun, however, is another story. 

Overall, while A-150 would have been a much larger and more expensive battleship, pressing the Japanese naval industry beyond its limits, it very likely would have produced a battleship that was, for all practical intents and purposes, inferior to the Yamato-class in any role save for being an AA barge (thanks to the large battery of 10cm guns).

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13 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

30 knots isn't exactly impressive in a world where Georgia can go 38-39ish.

The 'many' 100mm guns of the A-150 would give the ship very good AA for a IJN ship. However they already exist as secondaries on some ships, and in such a role they are extremely lackluster. WG could try making the ship a secondary ship like Mass and Georgia of course, but imho that would be a bad choice. A-150 as a Yamato successor design i suspect would be given the Yamato style citadel. And what about the turret traverse and reload speed of these 20.1 inch guns? Those are probably going to be tragic at best.

I'd love to see A-150, just to see A-150, but I think it would end up worse than Yamato, or more of a sidegrade at best.

They're not really lackluster, actually. It's just that few ships that use them have any real motivation to build secondaries. They have the same 25mm base pen as their destroyer version, have 20 rpm, and deal 1700 damage as secondaries which is really high for such a fast-firing gun. The thing is that Kii is a 5km base range ship that also has soft sides and IJN dispersion. Zao, Yoshino, and Azuma don't have the durability to try and use secondaries as cruisers. Hakuryu is a carrier and not very tough either, though I guess you could meme build Hak for secondaries and try and rely on HP. 400k DPM per side is a whole lot and might do something. Really the big thing is lack of extended range- if Kii got 6 or 7km range I'd expect her to sport secondary builds fairly often and be pretty scary doing it.

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I say create it and lets see what impact it would have had in the world of warships and how the US, allies, ect, would have responded. I mean we have that luxury and we have that luxury to adapt and respond. From what I read the IJN has agreed that we need to make our ships faster have great frickin secondaries and more powerful main guns. 

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts

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WG might as well release Super Yamato considering every recent ship we've gotten, she won't be game changing in the high tier meta unless WG really played with her reload time and gun sigma. 

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1 hour ago, ramp4ge said:

Wargaming has said™ that they won't add anything with guns bigger than Yamato's 18.1". 

So we'll probably never see Super Yamato. 

I remember when  WG said there will never be submarines in the game ?

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1 hour ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

WG does what I tell them to do. We need it, and its frickin history. Its fresh and exciting content. This is a home run.  we also need to fix the optics though. its just not jiving with the range capabilities. Vanila zoom needs some chocolate!? 

Friday night drinks?

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1 hour ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

I found this whilst trying to find optics info on the yamato....

 


In 1934, Japanese League of Nations delegates were
angered by sanctions imposed on their country by that
organization over the Manchurian Affair and Japan withdrew
from that august body and renounced all naval treaty
obligations.<1>  Soon after, long term plans were
considered along with the possible actions and reactions of
foreign nations, particularly potential adversaries such as
the United States.  Along with the preliminary design of
the future YAMATO class, plans were drawn up that,
hopefully, would allow Japan's pace for expansion to remain
unhindered without triggering a war with America until the
fleet was ready.  The cornerstone of this belief was the
battleship armed with the highly secret 18-inch gun.

     After quitting the League of Nations, specific minimum
requirements were drawn up dealing with future capital
ships.  These included:<2>

Armament:
     Main Battery:     18.1" or larger
     Secondary:        12-155mm in tripled turrets, or
                        8-203mm in twin turrets
Speed:                  over 30 knots
Range:                  8,000 nautical miles at 18 knots
Armor:                  Immune Zone<3> of 20,000-35,000
                        meters against the 18.1" gun

     According to these long-term plans, battleship
superiority was to begin in 1936, with the construction of
7 YAMATO class ships, each with nine 18-inch guns, which
would enter service in 1941.  During this same time period,
it was believed the United States would begin building an
unknown number of new battleships armed with 16-inch guns.
As the YAMATOS entered service, construction would start
on four SUPER YAMATO battleships, armed with six 20-inch
guns, two of which became designs 798 and 799; with
completion estimated for 1946.  Again, during this time
period America, it was believed, would probably begin
service with her new 16-inch gunned battleships and start
constructing the first ships armed with the 18-inch weapon.
In 1946, Japan felt she would then begin rearming the
seven original YAMATO class ships with six 20-inch guns at
the same time the four SUPER YAMATOS entered service.
America, in 1946, would commission her first 18-inch armed
battleships and begin building the first 20-inch gunned
ships that Japan felt could not ready before 1951.  By 1946
with this plan, Japan would have at least eleven
battleships armed with 20-inch guns on duty and, Japanese
naval authorities believed, capable of handling any threat
the US Navy battle line could mount.  Victory could be
assured by intimidation alone with their "Peace Goddesses
of the Pacific," and if war was unavoidable, Japan's super
battleships would be irresistible.  "The side whose ships
possessed the largest guns would win the battle."  Of
course, all this required the United States to act as
predicted

 

 

here is the link to the whole read https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt

@Femennenly

@_RC1138

 

Really? You would spend 200 on this?

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2 hours ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

I found this whilst trying to find optics info on the yamato....

 


In 1934, Japanese League of Nations delegates were
angered by sanctions imposed on their country by that
organization over the Manchurian Affair and Japan withdrew
from that august body and renounced all naval treaty
obligations.<1>  Soon after, long term plans were
considered along with the possible actions and reactions of
foreign nations, particularly potential adversaries such as
the United States.  Along with the preliminary design of
the future YAMATO class, plans were drawn up that,
hopefully, would allow Japan's pace for expansion to remain
unhindered without triggering a war with America until the
fleet was ready.  The cornerstone of this belief was the
battleship armed with the highly secret 18-inch gun.

     After quitting the League of Nations, specific minimum
requirements were drawn up dealing with future capital
ships.  These included:<2>

Armament:
     Main Battery:     18.1" or larger
     Secondary:        12-155mm in tripled turrets, or
                        8-203mm in twin turrets
Speed:                  over 30 knots
Range:                  8,000 nautical miles at 18 knots
Armor:                  Immune Zone<3> of 20,000-35,000
                        meters against the 18.1" gun

     According to these long-term plans, battleship
superiority was to begin in 1936, with the construction of
7 YAMATO class ships, each with nine 18-inch guns, which
would enter service in 1941.  During this same time period,
it was believed the United States would begin building an
unknown number of new battleships armed with 16-inch guns.
As the YAMATOS entered service, construction would start
on four SUPER YAMATO battleships, armed with six 20-inch
guns, two of which became designs 798 and 799; with
completion estimated for 1946.  Again, during this time
period America, it was believed, would probably begin
service with her new 16-inch gunned battleships and start
constructing the first ships armed with the 18-inch weapon.
In 1946, Japan felt she would then begin rearming the
seven original YAMATO class ships with six 20-inch guns at
the same time the four SUPER YAMATOS entered service.
America, in 1946, would commission her first 18-inch armed
battleships and begin building the first 20-inch gunned
ships that Japan felt could not ready before 1951.  By 1946
with this plan, Japan would have at least eleven
battleships armed with 20-inch guns on duty and, Japanese
naval authorities believed, capable of handling any threat
the US Navy battle line could mount.  Victory could be
assured by intimidation alone with their "Peace Goddesses
of the Pacific," and if war was unavoidable, Japan's super
battleships would be irresistible.  "The side whose ships
possessed the largest guns would win the battle."  Of
course, all this required the United States to act as
predicted

 

 

here is the link to the whole read https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt

@Femennenly

@_RC1138

 

And what tier your super Yamato?

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2 hours ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

Japan would have at least eleven battleships armed with 20-inch guns

There wasn't enough steel, armor, or building slips in the entire nation to support this project. It's historically accurate all right, if historically accurate means two guys in a bar swigging saki and talking nonsense. This is even more far fetched than the legendary Tillmans every fool and his Uncle Fudd want in the game. All the historical accuracy of a Daffy Duck cartoon.

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1 hour ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

WG does what I tell them to do.

:Smile_teethhappy:

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3 hours ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

"The side whose ships possessed the largest guns would win the battle."

Then there were planes, and subs, and missiles...

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