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Cit_the_bed

How soon until Russian carriers?

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There's several exciting light and fleet carrier designs from WW2 and I was wondering when we could expect them?

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Just imagine the wailing on these forums when super stronk Soviet carriers are added to the game; every bomb and torp guided by the hand of Stalin himself! The calls for nerfing CVs will look like amateur hour...

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You know, I would like to see what they come up with for that line, but am dreading it cause you are combining two things that the NA player base despises:

CVs 

Russian Ships (Especially paper ones)

Edited by JakeTheSeaSnake
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Just now, UltimateNewbie said:

Just imagine the wailing on these forums when super stronk Soviet carriers are added to the game; every bomb and torp guided by the hand of Stalin himself! The calls for nerfing CVs will look like amateur hour...

I think we need to trust that they will balance them properly. I don't foresee any issues at all. 

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4 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

There's several exciting light and fleet carrier designs from WW2 and I was wondering when we could expect them?

not truly from ww2, end of 1945 yes,  or so I thought. Interesting designs nonetheless.

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maxresdefault.jpg

Here's the tier 4. Notice the 356mm 6x3 secondaries and midship-clustered 130mm DP AA.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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The hard thing about Russian carriers isn't the ships. That's easy enough, some awful thing, Izmail conversion, Pr. 71, Pr. 72. There, 4 carriers. The problem is that the USSR didn't really have many attack aircraft that would be suitable for carrier conversion and armament fits for them. IL-2, IL-10, sure, but what else? You need something like 16-24 aircraft for a whole line. USSR has a hard time finding that many planes.

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1 minute ago, Aetreus said:

The hard thing about Russian carriers isn't the ships. That's easy enough, some awful thing, Izmail conversion, Pr. 71, Pr. 72. There, 4 carriers. The problem is that the USSR didn't really have many attack aircraft that would be suitable for carrier conversion and armament fits for them. IL-2, IL-10, sure, but what else? You need something like 16-24 aircraft for a whole line. USSR has a hard time finding that many planes.

When it comes to making Russia strong, WG will just fabricate whatever they want. We know this. They've been doing it for a decade.

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1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

When it comes to making Russia strong, WG will just fabricate whatever they want. We know this. They've been doing it for a decade.

Yeah, you can screw right the hell off. I'm actually restating the reason why WG has said in the past they don't think they could make a VMF CV line. Like maybe long in the future after exhausting other CV lines they will, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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9 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

not truly from ww2, end of 1945 yes,  or so I thought. Interesting designs nonetheless.

More like proposals

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1 minute ago, Aetreus said:

Yeah, you can screw right the hell off. I'm actually restating the reason why WG has said in the past they don't think they could make a VMF CV line. Like maybe long in the future after exhausting other CV lines they will, but I wouldn't bet on it.

WG says a lot of things, but then they turn around and do them so it's hard to take any "future plans" kind of talk from WG at face value.

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1 minute ago, Aetreus said:

Yeah, you can screw right the hell off. I'm actually restating the reason why WG has said in the past they don't think they could make a VMF CV line. Like maybe long in the future after exhausting other CV lines they will, but I wouldn't bet on it.

We'll just have to wait and see whether your optimism or my cynicism wind up being correct.

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Just now, KiyoSenkan said:

We'll just have to wait and see whether your optimism or my cynicism wind up being correct.

I mean, I've proposed Rusisan premium CV's before, so I don't really see thinking VMF CV's won't come soon as optimism. Mostly I just don't like your knee-jerk red panic in every Russian related thread.

Realistically, it's much easier for WG to do even stretches like French, German, or Italian CV lines than VMF. Mostly down to how underdeveloped naval aircraft were in Russia. France has 2 finished carriers, 1 unfinished, and I think at least one planned to fill in the tree, along with airgroups for 3 ships(Bearn and Clemenceau, along with the planned aircraft for Joffre). Germany and Italy have at least multiple airgroups for their carriers semi-tested. Russia never really laid out what would go in its airgroups.

Cynically, WG makes lines in the order that is easiest for them. Russian carriers are hard because there simply isn't material for their airwings, as the ships never got far enough for it to be a question. They make other Russian lines because they are easy, being located in St. Petersburg.

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18 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

maxresdefault.jpg

Here's the tier 4. Notice the 356mm 6x3 secondaries and midship-clustered 130mm DP AA.

Gah,  now I want to load up that game.  The CV's were terrible in 2 on the PS2 but in 1 and 2 for the PSP they were fantastic.

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11 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

Cynically, WG makes lines in the order that is easiest for them. Russian carriers are hard because there simply isn't material for their airwings, as the ships never got far enough for it to be a question. They make other Russian lines because they are easy, being located in St. Petersburg.

WG will use whatever planes they want. This is proven by Graf Zeppelin, which had Junkers Ju87-C bombers specifically made for it, but WG opted to use some land-based plane instead, citing that the Junkers were "too weak", despite the fact that all they would have had to do is adjust their 100% arbitrarily assigned soft stats to correct that issue.

No, they'll just give the Russian carriers whatever planes they want if they really wanted to put Russian carriers in.

Also, "red panic scare"? Really? That's what we're calling it when I call this company on its idiotic bias? That makes you sound like a real white knight, you know.

7 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Gah,  now I want to load up that game.  The CV's were terrible in 2 on the PS2 but in 1 and 2 for the PSP they were fantastic.

It's a good game. The carrier interface was pretty bad on the PS2 version though, gotta agree there.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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19 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

More like proposals

well yeh, proposals. a lack of young designers ./..(pre-war purges and the odd belief that an entire generation of naval ship designers would best serve Soviet interests either with a bullet in the head, or in a Siberian gulag as lumberjacks/coal miners,)

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23 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

The hard thing about Russian carriers isn't the ships. That's easy enough, some awful thing, Izmail conversion, Pr. 71, Pr. 72. There, 4 carriers. The problem is that the USSR didn't really have many attack aircraft that would be suitable for carrier conversion and armament fits for them. IL-2, IL-10, sure, but what else? You need something like 16-24 aircraft for a whole line. USSR has a hard time finding that many planes.

T4 CV has flying T-34s, KV-1s, and SU-85s, with T-50s for fighter cover

T6 CV has flying T-43s, KV-2s, and SU-100s, with T-50-2s for fighter cover

T8 CV has flying T-44s, IS-3s, and ISU-152s, with T-54 lt for fighter cover

T10 CV has flying T62s, OBJ-260s, and OBJ-268s, with T-100 lt for fighter cover

Secondaries and AA are literally just very small Smolensks duct taped to the sides, ends, and on top of the ship.

Oh and the horn is hard bass.

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6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

well yeh, proposals. a lack of young designers ./..(pre-war purges and the odd belief that an entire generation of naval ship designers would best serve Soviet interests either with a bullet in the head, or in a Siberian gulag as lumberjacks/coal miners,)

No different than the Tillman proposals which had only the most basic engineering work done on them.

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I too, am curious to see when we'll see at T10 Venator-class star destroyers.

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

No different than the Tillman proposals which had only the most basic engineering work done on them.

different context, different era. The Soviet designs were left unbuilt, not because they were unworkeable, or bad designs (the Tillman proposals had little good about them, other than their capacity for filling pork barrels) but because there was not a justifiable need for Soviet aircraft carriers. Land based airpower was sufficient to defend territorial waters and for strategic interests.

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11 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

WG will use whatever planes they want. This is proven by Graf Zeppelin, which had Junkers Ju87-C bombers specifically made for it, but WG opted to use some land-based plane instead, citing that the Junkers were "too weak", despite the fact that all they would have had to do is adjust their 100% arbitrarily assigned soft stats to correct that issue.

No, they'll just give the Russian carriers whatever planes they want if they really wanted to put Russian carriers in.

Also, "red panic scare"? Really? That's what we're calling it when I call this company on its idiotic bias? That makes you sound like a real white knight, you know.

It's a good game. The carrier interface was pretty bad on the PS2 version though, gotta agree there.

The problem is lack of single-engined aircraft with suitable ordnance, period. Only torpedo bombers are IL-2 and IL-10. Tu-91 is too big for CV use. Ta-152C/R14 is a real plane, stupid idea but they actually put a torpedo on an interceptor. Germany is strange.

Even if you pull out of all Russian planes it is stupidly hard to actually make airgroups. Russian fighters stop carrying rockets in 1942 or so, never carry very many, and don't have meaningful bombloads(4 100kg bombs at most). There's only the Il-2 and IL-10 for single-engined torpedo planes. There aren't any single-engined dive bombers, period, as the USSR liked twins more. The Soviets actually do have lots of cool ordnance, but it's all for twin engined attackers that don't fit on CV decks.

I don't care what you think of me, your constant red panic- and it is seriously just that, is annoying and brings down the level of discussion in every thread where it becomes relevant.

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