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TL_Warlord_Roff

SO um yea.. Italian

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SO Genova.. is not as good as the tech tree Montecuccoli.   Got more torps, slower, much more exposed citadel though its armor is technically thicker  it ain't noth'n to write home about.  And Monte at least gets a bit of space between the belt and the actual citadel which should be sufficient to keep you from being cit'd by HE at least..

With angling maybe nuff to shed the occasional 14" AP but I wouldn't count on it.  The travelling smoke is a life saver.  the SAP rounds are underwhelming.  If you get uptiered they're only good against broadside LIGHT cruiser and DD's.. and any CV you just happen to catch.

Commander skills:  Concealment is a bit of a must but I strongly suggest RPF first.  Tis a far far better thing to spot and shoot the DD first and at least with RPF you can have guns aimed more or less in the right direction.  DD's that pay attention do not like cruiser pointing their guns at them waiting for them to make an error.  Those that don't pay attention will die.

USE the float plane fighters, and take the commander skill for the extra bird.  You need the AA power and the float fighters are that extra little bit.  SPotter planes just sttract attention and make more folk want to shoot at your thin skinned self.  USE those WSAD keys constantly..

About to go find out what Trento is all about seeing I just finished the mission to get her.  More to follow!

USE YOUR TORPS... and mind the friendlies!

Warlord Sends

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff
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24 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

USE YOUR TORPS... and mind the friendlies!

I was torpedoed twice today by teammates. And of course...it was my fault I couldn’t read their mind behind me. Guess I can only read minds that are ahead of me...

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24 minutes ago, cgbosn4 said:

I was torpedoed twice today by teammates. And of course...it was my fault I couldn’t read their mind behind me. Guess I can only read minds that are ahead of me...

Been there, by division teammates as well lol.

Division chat be like 

"???buddy??" lol

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  TBH, I found the Raimondo to be even worse than  Genova...   A LIGHT cruiser with the reload of a heavy...  Gee, what could be better?    

I'm just glad it was a free pre-release ship, and not one I had to grind and pay for.    NOT looking forward to the next one- it'll be wasting space in my port  in a few base XP's.

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On 10/24/2019 at 5:17 AM, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  TBH, I found the Raimondo to be even worse than  Genova...   A LIGHT cruiser with the reload of a heavy...  Gee, what could be better?    

I'm just glad it was a free pre-release ship, and not one I had to grind and pay for.    NOT looking forward to the next one- it'll be wasting space in my port  in a few base XP's.

the reload offsets the higher damage SAP rounds does and makes the ship fight at longer ranges vs heading in like other cruisers

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I got the Montecuccoli from a mission that dropped from a crate. I'll never complain about Abruzzi and Duca d'Aosta again after driving that thing. Montecuccoli makes Krasny Krym look awesome!

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On 10/23/2019 at 3:28 PM, neptunes_wrath said:

I got that tier 5 P.O.S...... not impressed...

I'm at T7 and have found nothing noteworthy at all about these boats. Complete sh*t. Maybe the top teirs get better? Certainly to this point the characteristics of the boats are DD fragility,  crap torps (slow and do diddly damage), slow firing guns with mediocre range,, and horific turret roations for what are light cruisers.

A line of sh*t

Edited by Vortex__
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On 11/13/2019 at 5:22 PM, Vortex__ said:

I'm at T7 and have found nothing noteworthy at all about these boats. Complete sh*t. Maybe the top teirs get better? Certainly to this point the characteristics of the boats are DD fragility,  crap torps (slow and do diddly damage), slow firing guns with mediocre range,, and horific turret roations for what are light cruisers.

A line of sh*t

This this and this.  I made the mistake of Free EXP'ing from 8 to 10 and ..... crap.  Venezia is complete garbage.  worse armor than the smolly.  At least in that ship you get over penned.  Not in this boat.  Nope.  I struggle to break 75K in the boat.  Crap rudder speed, armor, reload, turret speed, detection.  Just a very very bad boat.  Should't have been released in its present forum.  Trash.

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14 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

This this and this.  I made the mistake of Free EXP'ing from 8 to 10 and ..... crap.  Venezia is complete garbage.  worse armor than the smolly.  At least in that ship you get over penned.  Not in this boat.  Nope.  I struggle to break 75K in the boat.  Crap rudder speed, armor, reload, turret speed, detection.  Just a very very bad boat.  Should't have been released in its present forum.  Trash.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time getting into the groove with the Zara. You make a good point on the rudder shift,,,I honestly don't know what it is, but for a line that is in the spirit of a water bound Ferrari, they have the speed, but the handling feels really sluggish. In comparisson I find the other glass ships, the french crusiers, more nimble. Heh, and I HAVE the rudder shift module loaded too!

I guess that's just the nature of the this line. It's a support boat, and a 1 trick (guns, slow firsing guns) pony at that. So if the team doesn't start well, it's pretty hard to change the momentum in these ships. You get aggressive, you tend to be dead in a couple hits.

I'd strongly suggest to others to not burn anything of game value to train these boats up. Try the mid tears, if you don't like what you see, it doesn't appear to get any better the higher you go.

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I'm getting a better feel for the gameplay on these boats (still in the T7 Zara), and although the points I made above haven't reall changed insofar as weakness go, these boats do have some strengths that are noteworthy. I equate them with the sniper class in any RPG. The guns are extremely accurate, even at very long range. nothing in the game that I've played comes close. Moreover, the SAP shell is especially lethal against DD's. That makes these cruisers extremely effective DD killers, even at max ranges. My last game I took out the opposing teams 3 DD's all at extreme range. Something for Italian cruiser drivers to keep in mind.

So if you're akin to those sniper type roles (hang back, snipe, be stealthy when you get attention <smoke>), and focus on picking off DD's, you will like these boats. It's still not a boat you can really push with though, you're entirely dependant on your team driving for a win....you can't lead that charge (or at least, not for long).

Edit: One thing I have noticed is T8 - T10 they've nerfed the reload time even though the gun is exactly the same as the T7. It gets progressivley slower, going from 14.5 seconds on the T7 Zara nerfing all the way up to 20 seconds on the T10, with a damage increase on the SAP shell of only .03%, and 0% on the AP. That's anemic. Roatation speed of the guns is also increased as you get higher. That's a game killer I think, suggesting to me that T7 is probably as high as one will want to go in this line. I'm certainly not going to push any higher at this point until I start hearing some feedback on what actually gets markedly better to offset that massive firepower nerf. Since you're a 1 trick pony and your guns are all you have, a battleship reload time will make these very unfun to play.

Edited by Vortex__
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One last tidbit, then I'll shut up. The 203mm guns will have a bloom dedection of around 9.5 to 10km, so if something is inside that range and you smoke then fire, you will be detected. That's REALLy important to remeber because you are likely going to only use smoke when you are getting focus fired and need cover.

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All right.. I started this thread time to add some more to it.

Got the tier VII Zara, played the crap out of it.. not bad.. but sh'es gone and I've got the tier VIII Amalfi now..  

In the words of a certain famous hollywood actor who played a helmsman on a certain starship on a certain TV series...

"Ohhh My!"

She's that good.

I suspect a good reason why the rof increases as you go up the tiers..

Tier 7 4x2 gun tubes, 15 second reload.  Tier 8- 3x3 gun tubes 16 sec reload.  Tier 9- 4x3 guns tubes, and tier X 5x3 gun tubes (though the B turret has a wanky firing arc due to placement on the tier X) 20 second reload both ships

I suspect that it was done to keep the ships from becoming OP. Only real explanation that makes any sense.. and umm yea I kinda agree with it. And the Italian guns are VERY accurate if your a good shot.  I am a good shot.  On Amalfi I don't even bother with the aiming system mod 1 in the third slot.  Doesn't need it. My main gun hit percentage is comfortably over 20%

My upgrades are Magazine mod one slot 1, Steering gear mod 1 in slot 2, AA guns mod 1 in slot 3, propulsion mod 2 in slot 4 (get to speed faster!) and last steering gear mod 3 in the 5th slot.  Gets her rudder shift down to 6.6 seconds with the hull upgrade and you really do need the agility.  Running a speed flag to get her to a top speed of 38.9 knots.. fast and agile.. and gent you got 12k torps.. use them! Your going to have to be turning constantly anyway to avoid incoming shells so take advantage! I may drop the Magazine mod for improved survivability of either main armament and torps or secondaries and AA.  I have yet to have an italian ship detonate on me.  They usually don't last long nuff to detonate if your being focused.   Of more of a puzzlement to me is why the Italian cruisers cannot use the smoke upgrade.  Now admittedly the action time is 40 seconds stock but I really wouldn't mind having an extra 12 seconds on it from time to time. when yer running its always nice to be able to run just a little but further and like at best I only get 3 charges anyway.  But that's just me.

And for the record not a single on of my Italian cruisers has a WR of less then 55%.   Amalfi is at 67% 11 fights as of right now, only 3 losses (Yes I did get lucky with the teams but be aware most of these fights I was low tier in a 3 tier spread)  

So the Italian ships are good, but they're not OP. they're not underpower either but they do require a different play style.

 

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I found the description of the Trento interesting, where it states that it outmatched its foreign counterparts in armor protection (though to a smaller extent); what tier 6 ship in game does the Trento outmatch with its armor?  The Leander is better armored, the Pensacola, the Aoba.  The Aoba alone gets 48mm deck armor vs the Trento's 16mm.  Not sure if that statement was an error, a joke, or what.

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Win rate in Amalfi is now at 69.97%  24 fights 15 wins. Unicum in that ship.

What I am finding with the Italian boats is it not the damage you cause that matters.  It is WHAT you cause the damage to when.  Yes DD's are the easiest to kill with italian ships, but with SAP there is nothing out there you can not at least cause damage to.  The longer the fights lasts and the longer you last the more damage over time you cause.

My last fight I was in I killed 2 ships having dished out 78k (personal best damage with guns in italian ships) of damage during the round and it was all guns.. and all SAP damage.. Killed one DD, and one CA.  Would have had kills on 2 BB's and another CA but someone  "kill secured" them on me. (*rats*) I may never see a kraken in one of these, and as far as PR goes I may likely never see unicum PR numbers due to the lack of HE spam damage/fire damage.  So be it.  It's not something I can help. Nor can you if your reading this.  It just the way PR is calculated.   

How ever the damage counts like AP damage.. only 10% is ever going to be repaired by any BB.  Thats a hard cap in the game engine.  Not even the special British damage repair is going to change that.

So yea.. In another thread there is one players who just flippen me crap constantly and playing stat shame and he's wrong because he doesn't understand what is actually happening with these ships, nor the mechanics of their damage.  Or for that matter how WOW stats actually calculates the numbers they present. AT least that what it appears to me is the case.

To be clear Italian cruisers are not easy ships to drive and they are beyond extremely unforgiving of errors in play and target selection.   But being difficult to play well is not the same as being poor ships.   I find them to be very good ships.... obviously or I wouldn't be doing well in them.  And they have contributed to seeing less and less DD's in play at higher tier.  As a DD main I quite understand this.    Normal HE was sufficiently bad in and of itself from the many high ROF cruisers out there.. and even high volume AP fire will do a number on you (British cruisers) but SAP from the Italian cruisers with their outrageously good gun accuracy is nasty because they simply have a much higher alpha damage then normal HE.  You can achieve one salvo kills on DD's.

I'm not quite sure if I think the devs should address this or not but DD's in high tier play are really catching it in the shorts these days.  The only thing saving DD's from utter uselessness is most CA players would rather HE spam BB's then shot DD's.  Ahh well.. Leaves more of them for me to shoot when I'm doing the spicy Calzone!  SAP may not pull the high damage number the HE spammers get but it's very consistent in its damage so the longer you last the higher your output.

Your raw damage over time is going to be greater than the HE spammers when fire damage numbers are pulled from the calculation is my conclusion but rest assured this won't be done by the stat sites likely ever.  Big numbers impress kids and there's a lot of kids out there, so yea it's likely not going to change.  They're always going to play for their audience first.   HE spam is such a thing that even BB's HE spam these days.  Even when they shouldn't because fire damage is part of the PR even though it is just as much no skill  as damage caused to aircraft (which is not part of the calculations because it takes "no skill" on the part of a player to shoot down aircraft.

if you goggle "Wows stats and number personal rating calculation" you'll see the formula's used.    No it's not quite fair, but then again what truly is.   

That's why I only consider WR, and main gun or torpedo hit percentage as the only stats that are truly important.

Good Luck, and Good Hunting!

TL_Warlord_roff sends

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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I was fortunate enough to unlock all 4 early access ships, and so started with Amalfi; the lower tier ships just did not look appealing to me as all seemed to have glaring weaknesses.  PTS reviews also were not very favorable for them.  I thought Amalfi was a good ship - not great, but not bad either.  Unlocked Brindisi and she is a very good ship.  Better than Amalfi by virtue of the heal and access to the tier 9 upgrade slot, plus a 4th turret.  DPM and overall damage totals went up significantly.  Unlocked Venezia yesterday; only have a couple of games in her but she is a very strong CA.  She farts 8-12k salvos, doesn't matter what the target is.  My first game in her felt like only a so-so game but when I looked up I had over 120k damage.  If you catch a DD out with the SAP they will rethink their life choices quickly.  If you can aim well, the AP can be devastating too.

I think the Italian CAs are not the easiest ships to play - they have a high skill floor, but a very high ceiling.  They reward good aim, ammo selection, positioning, and minimap awareness.  They punish even minor mistakes HARD.  With only 25mm plating, the high tier RM CAs get overmatched by every BB in their MM spread and will eat random citadels from just about any angle.  Without even hydro you have to be hyper aware of the enemy DDs - where they are, what they are doing, are there torps incoming.  The smoke is good only for going dark and getting away.  If you try to fire from smoke, your enormous smoke firing penalty will get you into trouble.

tl;dr - In my opinion this line just gets better as you move up the tiers, with the Venezia being easily the best in the line.

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I think the comments on these boats requiring a high skill level is pretty accurate. The Zara I was running about 52% which is about normal for me. The Amalfi, however, is 0% WR. I find the combination of huge detection range, short firing range and a glass jaw to be crippling (for me at least). The prior comments are quite valid...one needs to be a good player to make these work, which I admittedly am not. That's an important consideration for folks contemplating this line, they are quite unforgiving.  

I'll try the Amalfi a bit more but I suspect it will be getting sold in the near future and this line removed from the docks. 

Edited by Vortex__

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17 hours ago, Vortex__ said:

I think the comments on these boats requiring a high skill level is pretty accurate. The Zara I was running about 52% which is about normal for me. The Amalfi, however, is 0% WR. I find the combination of huge detection range, short firing range and a glass jaw to be crippling (for me at least). The prior comments are quite valid...one needs to be a good player to make these work, which I admittedly am not. That's an important consideration for folks contemplating this line, they are quite unforgiving.  

I'll try the Amalfi a bit more but I suspect it will be getting sold in the near future and this line removed from the docks. 

If you can stand it, finish Amalfi and get Brindisi.  The heal and tier 9 upgrade make it a much more comfortable ship to play than Amalfi, and after Brindisi you get Venezia which is an excellent ship IMO.  I really do think that the Italian cruisers just keep getting better as you move up the line.

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6 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

If you can stand it, finish Amalfi and get Brindisi.  The heal and tier 9 upgrade make it a much more comfortable ship to play than Amalfi, and after Brindisi you get Venezia which is an excellent ship IMO.  I really do think that the Italian cruisers just keep getting better as you move up the line.

I'll see how it goes. I think I've got 12 or so games in it and still have a 0% win rate. Where I was hitting ok with the Zara and able to dodge reasonably well, with the Amalfi I cannot get the guns on target and once I do get targetted, I'm dodging nothing and dead in a couple rounds.

Hehe, so I'm a pretty big liability to the team. I will try it a bit more, but I can't see myself pushing through averaging close to 0%.

Edited by Vortex__

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I've really been enjoying the line - such a refreshing change from cruisers that spam HE, cruisers that hump islands, and cruisers that hide in smoke.  I really do think the devs did a great job of giving this line it's own special flavor.

I finished the Amalfi grind this morning, and picked up the T9 Brindisi - and krakened the third match.  I'm  not lighting the world on fire, numbers wise - but I'm enjoying this line very much indeed.

Certainly I've found the T8 and 9 boats to be the most fun - but I'm glad I started at T5, as there is a lot to learn about playing these boats to best advantage.  I don't think free XP'ing up the line is a very good idea - these boats are quite different than the other cruiser lines.  

Anyway - mileage may vary - but I'd recommend giving the line a chance.

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Well so far I don't like them. Fighting at range, the IJN cruisers do it better. Killing DD's KM does it better. Yeah the Italian can one shot if good or lucky but German Hydro makes the KM better DD hunters. AA is on the weak side and the reload on the guns will get you killed if pushed by a cruiser or BB. The smoke IMO is weak compared to RNCL/DD's the reload on it is horrendous and duration is garbage. Torps may have good range but so slow a turtle can dodge them. Overall There are other lines that can do everything a CA is supposed to do in this game better. 

Jack of all trades master of none.

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