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Thunder_Feet

Co-op battles ending too soon?!?

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I battle every one of my ships every day - something that can only be done in Co-op, Ranked and Random battles would take much more time.  But today, it's gotten ridiculous for BBs - if you wait for the "right moment" to push, you barely get engaged, there are still several enemy ships alive, and while your salvo is in mid-air, the game ends!  One cap green, one red, one neutral... it just happened basically as described 5 consecutive battles.  I lost credits on all those battles because I didn't do enough damage to earn service/ammo costs.  Grinding is becoming more of a grind.

I have read something on this forum about it being a "mercy rule", but in Co-op, you're battling bots who don't have feelings to hurt.  I don't get it.  It seems like WG is trying to get us all to play like the bots, charge up the middle?

 

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5 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

I battle every one of my ships every day - something that can only be done in Co-op, Ranked and Random battles would take much more time.  But today, it's gotten ridiculous for BBs - if you wait for the "right moment" to push, you barely get engaged, there are still several enemy ships alive, and while your salvo is in mid-air, the game ends!  One cap green, one red, one neutral... it just happened basically as described 5 consecutive battles.  I lost credits on all those battles because I didn't do enough damage to earn service/ammo costs.  Grinding is becoming more of a grind.

I have read something on this forum about it being a "mercy rule", but in Co-op, you're battling bots who don't have feelings to hurt.  I don't get it.  It seems like WG is trying to get us all to play like the bots, charge up the middle?

 

thia is what u do about that

 

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2 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

  But today, it's gotten ridiculous for BBs - if you wait for the "right moment" to push, you barely get engaged, there are still several enemy ships alive, and while your salvo is in mid-air, the game ends!  One cap green, one red, one neutral..

There is a cool human feature called Adaptation. Here is my recommendation.

In a BB just go full speed and play normally.. I play Co-Op in a BB all the time, I get 2 kills every time with ease.

Your way of playing in Co-op is futile... Asking for WG to change the rules of battle just to appease a few is ill-advise.

Adapt and you're good.

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11 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

- if you wait for the "right moment" to push,

 

The right moment to push in coop with a BB is at the start.

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Just now, LordBerk said:

Speed play is the biggest plus of co-op.

Yeah, I agree, but 3.5 minutes?  How about 10 or so?

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The Mercy Rule is terrible and you should PM @Gneisenau013 and tell him how much you lose every match because of this inane rule.....

Now, having said that, at game start, set a full speed, least time azimuth to the nearest cap and in a BB, have at it the moment you are in range and DO NOT STOP......  I play BB's in COOP everyday and average 2 ship kills all of the time......

 

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Usually it's just one ship remaining. Two is sowhat uncommon.  And really it's better than spending another minute or two (or four if a cv is on the other side of the map) hunting down the last ship that everyone in range will farm. "Damage per hour playing coop"-wise, better to get into the next match with more to shoot st. 

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47 minutes ago, Episcopo said:

I have read something on this forum about it being a "mercy rule", but in Co-op, you're battling bots who don't have feelings to hurt.  I don't get it.  It seems like WG is trying to get us all to play like the bots, charge up the middle?

There is no MERCY RULE. There are victory conditions and when one is met the battle ends. The same applies to all battle modes. @Asym_KS

1. All enemy ships destroyed.

2. First side to 1000 points wins. Each ship destroyed adds points to the destroyers team and subtracts points from the opposing team. In domination the first team to reach 1000 points capping or destroying opposing ships wins.

3. In standard battle the first team reaching 1000 points by destroying enemy ships or all ships or caps the enemy base wins.

Ah no! In co op WG is hoping that you will learn to play the game well enough to play in Random and other PvP modes.

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As a BB main, in coop you push right away.  Not like in randoms.  First thing I do in a coop battle, set full speed and go straight ahead.  Do not go half way across the map to join the others if you are alone.  Last, you'll want to angle so you moving into the center of the map.

Edited by Wowzery
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4 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

As a BB main, in coop you push right away.  Not like in randoms.  First thing I do in a coop battle, set full speed and go straight ahead.  Do not go half way across the map to join the others if you are alone.  Last, you'll want to angle so you moving into the center of the map.

I just tried this in 2 battles.  It works.  I had 3 kills and made money first battle, 2 kills and still made money in the second.  It's not good practice for the other modes, but I had fun and made a profit in the mix - what I'm looking for.  For Wowzery and the others who suggested push from the get-go, many thanks!

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Co-Op is a vastly different beast then Randoms. You can't play them the same way.

 

As everyone has said, you simply have to charge forward and then angle the best you can

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1 hour ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

There is no MERCY RULE. There are victory conditions and when one is met the battle ends. The same applies to all battle modes. @Asym_KS

1. All enemy ships destroyed.

2. First side to 1000 points wins. Each ship destroyed adds points to the destroyers team and subtracts points from the opposing team. In domination the first team to reach 1000 points capping or destroying opposing ships wins.

3. In standard battle the first team reaching 1000 points by destroying enemy ships or all ships or caps the enemy base wins.

Ah no! In co op WG is hoping that you will learn to play the game well enough to play in Random and other PvP modes.

4. Making your opponents' score hit 0 by excessive killing early in the match, aka the mercy rule which you say doesn't exist.

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2 minutes ago, grumpymunky said:

4. Making your opponents' score hit 0 by excessive killing early in the match, aka the mercy rule which you say doesn't exist.

Well excuuuuuuuuse me for missing that one. It changes nothing! There is no MERCY RULE there are victory conditions and that is one of them.

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7 minutes ago, grumpymunky said:

4. Making your opponents' score hit 0 by excessive killing early in the match, aka the mercy rule which you say doesn't exist.

THAT must be what was happening, I guess I missed that somehow.  It makes sense now that I know!  However, I'm having fun and making credits now by being more aggressive and not using Random tactics in Co-op.  Maybe a total of 10 battles now and had one bad one and lost a couple hundred credits, not 20,000 credits like I was before.  I'm a happy camper.  I still have to figure out the way to do this in DDs and CLs - I don't think my American light cruisers will last long charging up the middle!

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12 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

Well excuuuuuuuuse me for missing that one. It changes nothing! There is no MERCY RULE there are victory conditions and that is one of them.

Mercy rule is the name for the victory condition of one of the teams reaching zero points.  You're being pedantic.  

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This is what I've been sure I could do if the battle didn't end before I got engaged.  I had been watching videos and they disparage "charge up the middle" (youtube videos is how I got interested in the game).  But those videos were all of random battles.  Now that I've tried the gut-shot technique, here's a result.  I also did more damage to other ships but didn't get the "final" shot (common, I know).  EDIT:  I can live with 100k-plus credits per battle, that's for sure - since I changed tactics, I've been netting between 100k and this amount of credits (net after service and ammo, about 160k).

Screenshot (1).png

Edited by Episcopo

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1 hour ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

There is no MERCY RULE. There are victory conditions and when one is met the battle ends. The same applies to all battle modes. @Asym_KS

1. All enemy ships destroyed.

2. First side to 1000 points wins. Each ship destroyed adds points to the destroyers team and subtracts points from the opposing team. In domination the first team to reach 1000 points capping or destroying opposing ships wins.

3. In standard battle the first team reaching 1000 points by destroying enemy ships or all ships or caps the enemy base wins.

Ah no! In co op WG is hoping that you will learn to play the game well enough to play in Random and other PvP modes.

Ah, then explain this enclosure.

This is a full up BB as the game was ending: with 11:00 minutes on the clock, we didn't hold all of the caps, 1000 points and there were two enemy ships left when the game stopped.  COOP.  I have dozens of these screen shots where the COOP game ended well before any of the winning conditions were met.

shot-19_10.08_10_05.36-0325.thumb.jpg.987341df045e2e6cde0df9e695d6135c.jpg

so, let's recap your response:

1)  Nope.  there were two left.

2)  Nope.  There were two enemy ships left.

3)  Nope.  There was no base to capture on this one and we didn't own all of the caps.

Yes, COOP is a good place to learn, experiment and find a ship you really enjoy !  And, some of us enjoy COOP vastly more than Randoms and Ranked....  As far as playing well enough?  I've played well over 4800 Randoms; over 5000 COOP and hundreds and hundreds of scenarios; and, hundreds of ranked battles and I'm no purple stat GoD but, I hold my own darn well.....   

shot-19_10.01_10_31.20-0430.thumb.jpg.40c4714b2264da8d349f112f747496d9.jpg

This at game end with a lot of time on the clock, no 1000 points and more than one enemy ship alive.  I have forwarded samples to WG for review and await a response......

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17 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

1)  Nope.  there were two left.

2)  Nope.  There were two enemy ships left.

3)  Nope.  There was no base to capture on this one and we didn't own all of the caps.

You reduced the opponents to 0 points therefore the battle ended. That is a VICTORY CONDITION not a mercy rule.

The only mercy to be given in a battle would be to just beat the opponents all down to low HP rather than sinking them to gain points and reduce their points. They keep fighting for as long as your team allows as you try to cap and your team mates avoid being damaged or sunk. Time expires and it is either a draw or most points or cap wins.

Try it you might like it.

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The key to co-op is being able to rush forward at full speed and not die. Sounds simple, doesn't it? It's the execution that is tricky.

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In co-op, if all the humans survive, the matches will end usually with a couple of enemy ships left. They are usually BBs and CVs. One way to keep this from happening is by letting your human team mates die. If you see one going off on their own, let them. Don't bother supporting them and sometimes the bots will take them out. If the player is really good, they can sometimes survive, but letting your fellow players get blapped is a tried and true method of keeping a match going. If you have bots on your team, always let them die unless the issue is in doubt. 

Slow moving BBs really suffer in co-op. In many matches you will get an opportunity to fire your guns just a couple of times before the match is over. What is really aggravating is terrain. Having red bots in range but you can not shoot at them because of rocks is probably more annoying to me. I am glad that the rocks are there for PvP players who like hiding, but in PvE, they just get in the way.  BTW if you haven't noticed it yet, bots will maneuver in order to get you to run aground. They can be sneaky in this regard. 

The easiest way to overcome the limitations of using BBs in PvE is to play in the off hours. If you can get into a match with just one or two other human players and the rest of the team is bots, the matches will be far more fun, they will drag on a bit, and you won't always win. In order to do this you must be good enough to carry a match and have a decent understanding of bot behavior. 

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3 hours ago, Episcopo said:

if you wait for the "right moment" to push,

This is your problem right here, in co op there is no waiting, your full speed at the start, and shoot what you can as fast as you can before the match ends, co op is not tactical ( I use that term loosely), it is shooty boats

Edited by CriMiNaL__

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15 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

You reduced the opponents to 0 points therefore the battle ended. That is a VICTORY CONDITION not a mercy rule.

The only mercy to be given in a battle would be to just beat the opponents all down to low HP rather than sinking them to gain points and reduce their points. They keep fighting for as long as your team allows as you try to cap and your team mates avoid being damaged or sunk. Time expires and it is either a draw or most points or cap wins.

Try it you might like it.

And, the logic of having zero points with one, two or even three fully intact ships is.............stupid.   This is a First-Person-Shooter in an Arcade format at sea.  Having fully functional and valid target in a process that "intentionally allows the game to stop short of destroying those targets" is.......drum roll please......out right ** slight-of-hand, counter intuitive and seriously inane.  There is no Victory Conditions when there are targets to service.

Try what?  And, no, I don't like it at all anymore....this game can do much better.  Or, it will fade away or become so plebeian, no one will play it.

** Let me append a word choice.  The word I used was too strong - apologies

Edited by Asym_KS
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