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Grand_Commander_LuXun

What exactly am I doing wrong with the Belfast?

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I was lucky enough to have picked up a Cheatfast from one of last year's Christmas crates (though I spent quite a bit before having the luck). So far I've played 77 battles in it, all solo, but I feel that my performance in it is quite underwhelming. I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, if in open water I pop smoke when being attacked or when I want to shell enemy ships, and at other times I play it like a USN light cruiser by abusing island cover. However, I am finding it harder to do well in the Belfast than I had originally thought. It seems that it's still very much a team dependent ship, it struggles on the bigger maps when up-tiered, and I often find myself unable to get it to perform due to my team melting too quickly or my side / the enemy side fighting the battle at too fast a pace for me to really push in and wait for enemies to push in, or sometimes the battle's too slow (this usually occurs when up-tiered) and the big guns just duke it out at range leaving me not much of a chance to close the distance safely.

 

Here are my Belfast stats after 77 battles:

Overall Results

Battles 77
Victories 41 (53%)
Battles survived 34
Damage caused 5,309,225
Warships destroyed 84
Aircraft destroyed 137

Average Score per Battle

Experience 1,776.08
Damage caused 68,950.97
Warships destroyed 1.09
Aircraft destroyed 1.78
Main battery hit ratio 34%

 

 

WoWS Numbers PR: 2044 (I am sure it's mostly due to the damage which places me at almost 50% above server average)

 

 

Furthermore, would you be kind enough to like at my profile (sad that Warships Today is gone) and find clues as to where I am struggling / could improve on, and how would you rate me overall?

 

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Doubt you are doing anything really wrong. I found it to be a similar situation with the Fiji. Smoke ships just need a spotter to effectively use their smoke. Even the Smols avg server WR has continued to drop. 

Welcome back Grand_viceroy. 

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For me the issue is positioning. Often times i'll go to a defensive spot expecting the enemy to walk right in and it doesn't happen. Or i'll pop smoke and the enemy sail out of my gun range. 

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For me I'm finding it difficult just to reach and go above the server average WR for the Belfast, and recently the quality of matches hasn't helped me raise any stats except pure damage. Ship kills and K/D ratio, trying to increase it has been an uphill struggle.

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2 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

For me I'm finding it difficult just to reach and go above the server average WR for the Belfast, and recently the quality of matches hasn't helped me raise any stats except pure damage. Ship kills and K/D ratio, trying to increase it has been an uphill struggle.

If you are willing, find some good DD player and division with him as much you can. (3 man even better). I think that's the only way to ensure a consistent improvement in WR for this specific situation. 

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Radar at Tier 7 can be very powerful, so I like to push in the the DD’s, then drop to 1/2 power when close to the cap so I can smoke up fast when spotted. Belfast is sluggish so watch out for torps or take vigilance.  I don’t usually have problems finding a target if I push in like this. Make sure you escape out of spotting range or tuck behind an island before your smoke is out.

1 hour ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

in open water I pop smoke when being attacked

This shouldn’t be an instant reaction. Smoke is effective when you have a spotter and the enemy isn’t pushing into you. If you are being chased, smoke can hide your escape, but don’t sit there waiting to be rushed.  Belfast can do ok kiting in open water. It’s not ideal but it’s better than sitting in smoke until a BB is within 5k.

 

1 hour ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

the big guns just duke it out at range leaving me not much of a chance to close the distance safely.

When uptiered you still have HE, and smoke is smoke no matter what tier. It’s true it can be tougher to get range but you do have decent concealment, better than any higher tier cruisers.  You are a great DD support so like Octavian said, find a DD to guide you in.

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The Belfast doesn't have a fast ROF.

You cannot turn ships away.

Best to help radar and kill destroyers. Once the DD menace is gone, your side should be winnable. 

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2 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I was lucky enough to have picked up a Cheatfast from one of last year's Christmas crates (though I spent quite a bit before having the luck). So far I've played 77 battles in it, all solo, but I feel that my performance in it is quite underwhelming. I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, if in open water I pop smoke when being attacked or when I want to shell enemy ships, and at other times I play it like a USN light cruiser by abusing island cover. However, I am finding it harder to do well in the Belfast than I had originally thought. It seems that it's still very much a team dependent ship, it struggles on the bigger maps when up-tiered, and I often find myself unable to get it to perform due to my team melting too quickly or my side / the enemy side fighting the battle at too fast a pace for me to really push in and wait for enemies to push in, or sometimes the battle's too slow (this usually occurs when up-tiered) and the big guns just duke it out at range leaving me not much of a chance to close the distance safely.

 

Here are my Belfast stats after 77 battles:

Overall Results

Battles 77
Victories 41 (53%)
Battles survived 34
Damage caused 5,309,225
Warships destroyed 84
Aircraft destroyed 137

Average Score per Battle

Experience 1,776.08
Damage caused 68,950.97
Warships destroyed 1.09
Aircraft destroyed 1.78
Main battery hit ratio 34%

 

 

WoWS Numbers PR: 2044 (I am sure it's mostly due to the damage which places me at almost 50% above server average)

 

 

Furthermore, would you be kind enough to like at my profile (sad that Warships Today is gone) and find clues as to where I am struggling / could improve on, and how would you rate me overall?

 

I think your problem is that you believe the ship is OP and will make you be good.

It isn't, the player makes the ship, not vice versa.

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Your damage average is very good I would say, victories are more a function of getting on a decent team unless you are a top 10% player. Also if up tiered your advantage is not as great as it once was maybe? Lots of new OP ships since Belfast came out and lots more radar. Also players have learned how to counter it more effectively?

Just not as OP as it once was but still a very fine ship and better than many at t7. I started playing after Belfast was pulled, but have fought with and against many since I started. A division with a Belfast and 2 destroyers can lock down a cap pretty easy and wreck havoc in the middle of the map. Wish I had one in my port. I have been learning to play without smoke using Boise, I think it will make me better in my Fiji where I smoke up to soon and often, stay to long and pay the price for doing so. Try playing a couple of battles using no smoke, just island cover or others smoke. Like others have said, you just can't sit in smoke as much anymore if there are t8 and t9 ships in the lineup.

Also I see less destroyers being played, lucky to get 3 on a side. Often only two, and once in a while only one. And if you don't have one around or it gets taken out best to boogie out of that smoke for island cover. If your top tier you can often just sit and farm if no other radar ships. Some games are just tough, you might be detected during most of it. Then smoke is not the warm fuzzy security blanket we all hope for. Saturday I was sitting in smoke in my Fiji at full health. Someone turned on their radar from beyond where I could detect them. Got hammered from a t9 BB from 18k away. One salvo, game was over for me.

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1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

I think your problem is that you believe the ship is OP and will make you be good...It isn't,

But it used to be...

 

3 hours ago, KAPTAIN_KAOS_OBERMEISTER said:

Smoke changed from what it used to provide....stealth firing went bye bye.

& therein lies your problem w/the reality not matching the hype OP...

 

3 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

For me I'm finding it difficult just to reach and go above the server average WR for the Belfast, and recently the quality of matches hasn't helped me raise any stats except pure damage. Ship kills and K/D ratio, trying to increase it has been an uphill struggle.

The ship went from 2km detection (standard assured acquisition) in smoke to where everybody jumped up to German hydro detection every time you fired your guns...which is why when that change occurred they immediately took the "Cheatfast" out of the store for all time & offered a buy back (in doubloon value anyway)...Other than CVs (including GZ before the rework) I don't think that's ever happened before (after a ship has been run in even 1 battle anyway).

The point is that the "Cheatfast" lost that title w/the smoke firing change...it's still pretty powerful w/the combo of smoke & radar but not all that OP as it once was.

Another point is that the server average has all the stats from when it was OP(er than it is now anyway) you're trying to compete with...you're not doing bad in it but it's not as easy to do great in it as it used to be.

Oh yeah...I also just remember another point...all other higher tiered radar cruisers got buffs (more power creep) so it used to be harder to get radared in your smoke.

 

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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I also have a Payfast and have about the same number of games in it. It looks like I survive a little more however which is probably affecting my win rate a tad. My strategy is to always push into the caps with the destroyers holding my fire so I'm not seen until the last minute. I use my hydro to clear the way for torpedoes then ambush the enemy destroyer killing it quickly. If it smokes up then I pop radar. This gets rid of my spotting issue and then I focus on burning down battleships and cruisers but I don't do it from open water unless I have no other choice; hold fire and let your excellent concealment take over. Remember, you're a ninja not a brawler. 

Also, your captain's build is very important. I like to run priority target, adrenaline rush, smoke screen expert, superintendent, demolition expert, inertial fused, and concealment expert. I'm sure people have better builds but this works well for me.  

I hope this helps. The Belfast is not the powerhouse it used to be, especially when uptiered, due to so many more ships having radar and so many super cruisers. But when she's top tier she's a handful to deal with and a lot of fun to play. Enjoy!

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It’s not about damage but where you put your damage. You might be above average server numbers for it but if you’re spamming lots of HE into BB’s rather than DD’s and cruisers, especially ones that don’t have heal you’re missing the strengths of a cruise like Belfast. 

The smoke “penalty”?? Not so much a penalty. If anything if you get detected in smoke, something has blundered into your radar range. Pop it, if a DD? Pop hydro also and laugh as you rip it to shreds.

 

Belfast can use islands just as well as any other cruiser with forgiving arcs. Between islands and smoke there are very few times you need to be seen.

 

Lastly. Fiji is better than Belfast. ;)

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7 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I was lucky enough to have picked up a Cheatfast from one of last year's Christmas crates (though I spent quite a bit before having the luck). So far I've played 77 battles in it, all solo, but I feel that my performance in it is quite underwhelming. I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, if in open water I pop smoke when being attacked or when I want to shell enemy ships, and at other times I play it like a USN light cruiser by abusing island cover. However, I am finding it harder to do well in the Belfast than I had originally thought. It seems that it's still very much a team dependent ship, it struggles on the bigger maps when up-tiered, and I often find myself unable to get it to perform due to my team melting too quickly or my side / the enemy side fighting the battle at too fast a pace for me to really push in and wait for enemies to push in, or sometimes the battle's too slow (this usually occurs when up-tiered) and the big guns just duke it out at range leaving me not much of a chance to close the distance safely.

 

Here are my Belfast stats after 77 battles:

Overall Results

Battles 77
Victories 41 (53%)
Battles survived 34
Damage caused 5,309,225
Warships destroyed 84
Aircraft destroyed 137

Average Score per Battle

Experience 1,776.08
Damage caused 68,950.97
Warships destroyed 1.09
Aircraft destroyed 1.78
Main battery hit ratio 34%

 

 

WoWS Numbers PR: 2044 (I am sure it's mostly due to the damage which places me at almost 50% above server average)

 

 

Furthermore, would you be kind enough to like at my profile (sad that Warships Today is gone) and find clues as to where I am struggling / could improve on, and how would you rate me overall?

 

Its hard to say what you might be doing wrong unless you have replay files available. I usually play my Belfast quite aggressive, usually pushing with the DD at start to go and take out the enemy DD at first cap contest, then depending on how my team and enemy team moves I usually push hard forward or kite backwards and halting their push by focusing the leading ship with my HE Fire spam. Belfast is the only smoke ship that isnt that dependent on his team due to strong radar and hydro, but it sure helps to have a friendly DD with you. I link a few of my videos on the Belfast below, maybe they can give you some tips on how to play her?

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Vaffu said:

I think your problem is that you believe the ship is OP and will make you be good.

It isn't, the player makes the ship, not vice versa.

Right.  Belfast has a lot of tools available to it.  Still, those tools and strengths have to be used correctly, positioning has to be considered, and your targets need to be chosen.  When played to her strengths, Belfast is still a monster.  I just don't see most people playing her very well.

I have 160 games played in her, but my average XP (1,526) and damage (63,292) is less than the OP.  My W/R is 58%, however, and I certainly feel like I can influence the game if I play her well.  As @RescuerRangersSociety stated above, target selection is also important.  Belfast is a game-changer when she is used to kill destroyers and turn cruisers away from cap support.  Stacking damage is a secondary objective.

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o/

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Simple answer, Sky cancer.

Belfast is no longer as free to do what she wants as most of the time I get spotted long before I get into a position to be effective, and a spotted belfast is a target for all.

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1 hour ago, SmokinCAT said:

Simple answer, Sky cancer.

Belfast is no longer as free to do what she wants as most of the time I get spotted long before I get into a position to be effective, and a spotted belfast is a target for all.

Yeah, since the release of the British CVs and the carrier rework I'm seeing a bit too many matches with CVs for comfort.

 

 

Also, on a general note, Tier 7, that has long been widely regarded as MM's sweet spot, seems to be seeing a disproportionate number of matches with 8s and 9s. Not sure how long this has been going on for and not sure why. Has this been the same for anyone else?

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14 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I was lucky enough to have picked up a Cheatfast from one of last year's Christmas crates (though I spent quite a bit before having the luck). So far I've played 77 battles in it, all solo, but I feel that my performance in it is quite underwhelming. I am not sure what I'm doing wrong, if in open water I pop smoke when being attacked or when I want to shell enemy ships, and at other times I play it like a USN light cruiser by abusing island cover. However, I am finding it harder to do well in the Belfast than I had originally thought. It seems that it's still very much a team dependent ship, it struggles on the bigger maps when up-tiered, and I often find myself unable to get it to perform due to my team melting too quickly or my side / the enemy side fighting the battle at too fast a pace for me to really push in and wait for enemies to push in, or sometimes the battle's too slow (this usually occurs when up-tiered) and the big guns just duke it out at range leaving me not much of a chance to close the distance safely.

 

Here are my Belfast stats after 77 battles:

Overall Results

Battles 77
Victories 41 (53%)
Battles survived 34
Damage caused 5,309,225
Warships destroyed 84
Aircraft destroyed 137

Average Score per Battle

Experience 1,776.08
Damage caused 68,950.97
Warships destroyed 1.09
Aircraft destroyed 1.78
Main battery hit ratio 34%

 

 

WoWS Numbers PR: 2044 (I am sure it's mostly due to the damage which places me at almost 50% above server average)

 

 

Furthermore, would you be kind enough to like at my profile (sad that Warships Today is gone) and find clues as to where I am struggling / could improve on, and how would you rate me overall?

 

You are doing pretty good damage, and you are getting shells on your target.

As said, without a replay or 2, its hard to see how you are playing.

Based on the stats you provided, your survival rate is in the mid 40s. That could be a sign that maybe you are pushing a bit too hard, trying up that damage at the cost of being more exposed.

As has been also said, Belfast is not as OP as it once was. She's been out for awhile now, and people have learned how to counter her. Not to mention radar and hydro ships are more common now.

 

wows-numbers.com is a fair replacement for warships.today.

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what commander build you are using?

also, u are using ifhe? thats important.

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18 hours ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Smoke ships just need a spotter to effectively use their smoke

So much this. Follow a DD at mid range and reap the rewards. You can also shadow the main push and do the same thing.

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The game has changed, Belfast is still good but it used to be essentially untouchable - T7 received the best match making, there were a lot fewer ships that could just 1 shot it or keep up with its rate of fire and we used to have like 4+ DDs per team. It's gun bloom in smoke used to be smaller and that meant alot. 

 

 

 

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One think to think of is your target selection.   I see a lot of HE spammers focus solely on farming damage numbers which does not automatically translate into a win.

For me when I was driving the Belfast my targeting priorities were...

  1. DDs in or nearing a the cap I chose to help contest,   following a dd to use his eyes, trying to be close enough for radar to be effective, slowing to smoke covers me quickly (with an eye of where to escape to after 30sec or so cuz trops would be coming). also not popping smoke until I know if the dd i'm following is going to pop or not.
  2. DDs anywhere in range
  3. Low heath ships in range to finish them off.   Some may call it kill stealing but I call it focusing fire and getting guns off the board which helps the team.   Low health ships still do a full amount of damage to your team so get rid of them
  4. lastly any other target that may be making a push or simply presents an opportunity.

Also before you pop smoke make sure you have eyes outside keep things spotted for you, Also, don't plan on sitting in your smoke for the full duration.   As soon as you pop smoke, you have put up a sign that says 'shoot torps here!'...  shoot for about half the time you have then di di mao out of there, preferably in a direction away from things that might see you.

remember, people out there now how to counter things hiding in smoke or humping islands.   Being aware of how to beat a Belfast (or smol or dd or 'cancer' of the week) will lead you to being more effective in it.

 

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