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BattleBard149

Kremlin or Yamato?

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Ahoy Mates,

As with my other post, I am looking for advice/opinions on which of these two BBs I should go for next.

Any opinions and information will be greatly appreciated. I've researched them, but nothing beats opinions of those who already drive them.

Thanx and Fair Seas

 

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 Trying to edit the title, but I click and hold as it says and nada.

 

Ok...Got it changed now.

Edited by FuBard123
being an idiot

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In the current meta I’d say go with Kremlin. Yes it’s potentially broken, but you might as well enjoy it while you can. 

 

Yamato is a sniper. Period. You have usable secondaries when built for it and are very tanky from the front, but your turret traverse is terrible, plus you have the well known vulnerable cheeks that any bb or large cruiser loves to abuse. And if you run the LM for better dispersion your turret traverse is even worse. In fact, whenever I play battleships or cruisers, I absolutely love watching Yamatos push up unto me since I can out maneuver their turrets and get easy access to the citadel cheek. It’s also the easiest way to deal with them, and I did quite a bit of that in t10 clan battles in my Montana. 

On the other hand, Kremlin is insanely tanky if you don’t show your very exposed citadel (although even if you show broadside at more than 8-10 km even Yamato doesn’t have the pen to get through the belt and into the citadel). Your armor is also thick enough to resist most cruiser he (you have chunks of the bow that can shatter most he, and the only thing that can he pen your deck is an ifhe Hindy) so your only real threats are fires and flooding with your limited DCP charges. You also have some of the best aa out of any t10 battleship so most carriers aren’t a threat to you either. You have THE best dispersion of any battleship at tier, and past that only thunderer has better dispersion out to your max range, as well as some of the best ap pen values at any range. And compared to the rest of the line both your turret traverse and reload are fast enough to brawl, and your rudder shift can prevent easy citadel access. However, your turning circle is (I believe) the worst in the game, even worse than carriers. Then again, you’re a glorious Soviet battleship and therefore you’re not allowed to run away from anything (or else you’ll be sent to gulag and then turned into a german ship for disappointing glorious Stalin). 

Edited by MidnightPhoenix07
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29 minutes ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

In the current meta I’d say go with Kremlin. Yes it’s potentially broken, but you might as well enjoy it while you can. 

 

Yamato is a sniper. Period. You have usable secondaries when built for it and are very tanky from the front, but your turret traverse is terrible, plus you have the well known vulnerable cheeks that any bb or large cruiser loves to abuse. And if you run the LM for better dispersion your turret traverse is even worse. In fact, whenever I play battleships or cruisers, I absolutely love watching Yamatos push up unto me since I can out maneuver their turrets and get easy access to the citadel cheek. It’s also the easiest way to deal with them, and I did quite a bit of that in t10 clan battles in my Montana. 

On the other hand, Kremlin is insanely tanky if you don’t show your very exposed citadel (although even if you show broadside at more than 8-10 km even Yamato doesn’t have the pen to get through the belt and into the citadel). Your armor is also thick enough to resist most cruiser he (you have chunks of the bow that can shatter most he, and the only thing that can he pen your deck is an ifhe Hindy) so your only real threats are fires and flooding with your limited DCP charges. You also have some of the best aa out of any t10 battleship so most carriers aren’t a threat to you either. You have THE best dispersion of any battleship at tier, and past that only thunderer has better dispersion out to your max range, as well as some of the best ap pen values at any range. And compared to the rest of the line both your turret traverse and reload are fast enough to brawl, and your rudder shift can prevent easy citadel access. However, your turning circle is (I believe) the worst in the game, even worse than carriers. Then again, you’re a glorious Soviet battleship and therefore you’re not allowed to run away from anything (or else you’ll be sent to gulag and then turned into a german ship for disappointing glorious Stalin). 

LOL...

I love your descriptions, and I tend to agree with you from what I've read/watched/seen. I prefer a BB that can brawl a little and take it as well as dish it out... I don't care much for sniping. Being a cruiser main, I am used to protecting my broadsides, so that's not too much of an issue for me. I'm up to the Sinop now, and I love it, except that as you said, you can get a citadel very easily if you don't watch your angling.

Thanx a  lot

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, FuBard123 said:

LOL...

I love your descriptions, and I tend to agree with you from what I've read/watched/seen. I prefer a BB that can brawl a little and take it as well as dish it out... I don't care much for sniping. Being a cruiser main, I am used to protecting my broadsides, so that's not too much of an issue for me. I'm up to the Sinop now, and I love it, except that as you said, you can get a citadel very easily if you don't watch your angling.

Thanx a  lot

 

 

 

If you want a battleship line that can brawl really well, you definitely want either Kremlin or Montana (once you get past the slow-as-a-rock standards). The Russian and german lines are the true brawlers, but the Germans have been power crept quite a bit over the years. The us line (despite technically being a second-line support line) can brawl very effectively even against Germans or Russians (I’ve had many times where a GK pushes up to brawl my Montana and either comes out very dead while I sail happily away or ends up so low he’s effectively out of the fight). 

The French can brawl but the liberal amounts of 32mm armor and guns and speed that favor flanking make them less than ideal for close combat all the time. 

The British has the stealth to get closer but definitely don’t have the guns or armor to brawl, and they also don’t have the health or heal, instead being more suited to sitting back in the 10-15km range and taking mostly he and fire damage that can be buffed out. 

The one line that’s definitely not suited for brawling at all is the IJN line - your dispersion and armor, as well as a lack of agility (especially when you st up to Yamato) mean getting close to a competent bb player is a death sentence. Had a game a few weeks ago in a Montana where a Yamato managed to only do 35k damage to me over several minutes (well within brawling range) while I took out almost all his health in half the time. Well angled, Yamato can be scary up close, but it’s also so easy to get onto it’s side and be completely immune to its turrets while chewing off 20-45k salvos every 25 seconds. 

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Yamato is one style of play and the Kremlin is a totally different style of play...

I would strike a conciliatory tune in suggesting both ships.

The Yamato is an old ship for which she is no longer king of the BBs anymore

The Kremlin is a formidable BB, the worst BB for some would be the Grober Kurfurst.

Any BB you choose to play at tier X will be an OP beast compared to any other ship class in the tier...

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4 minutes ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

If you want a battleship line that can brawl really well, you definitely want either Kremlin or Montana (once you get past the slow-as-a-rock standards). The Russian and german lines are the true brawlers, but the Germans have been power crept quite a bit over the years. The us line (despite technically being a second-line support line) can brawl very effectively even against Germans or Russians (I’ve had many times where a GK pushes up to brawl my Montana and either comes out very dead while I sail happily away or ends up so low he’s effectively out of the fight). 

The French can brawl but the liberal amounts of 32mm armor and guns and speed that favor flanking make them less than ideal for close combat all the time. 

The British has the stealth to get closer but definitely don’t have the guns or armor to brawl, and they also don’t have the health or heal, instead being more suited to sitting back in the 10-15km range and taking mostly he and fire damage that can be buffed out. 

The one line that’s definitely not suited for brawling at all is the IJN line - your dispersion and armor, as well as a lack of agility (especially when you st up to Yamato) mean getting close to a competent bb player is a death sentence. Had a game a few weeks ago in a Montana where a Yamato managed to only do 35k damage to me over several minutes (well within brawling range) while I took out almost all his health in half the time. Well angled, Yamato can be scary up close, but it’s also so easy to get onto it’s side and be completely immune to its turrets while chewing off 20-45k salvos every 25 seconds. 

Yeah,

I have the Montana, and she is a really great BB. In fact, my highest ever damage score is in my Monty. She's not quite a brawler, but well able to do it in a pinch and can take damage well and dish it out too. I'm not into brawling outright, as the German BBs do, nor do I prefer sniping like the Yammy. I guess I meant more that I like  a ship that can take damage when it has to, not exactly brawl with it. The videos I've watched on youtube  of Kremlin really got me interested in her, and I have the chance to get her quickly if I want. And based on your recommendation and others, plus videos and my personal preferences, I think I will go for her.

 

I really appreciate the advice.

 

Fair Seas

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Yamato is one style of play and the Kremlin is a totally different style of play...

I would strike a conciliatory tune in suggesting both ships.

The Yamato is an old ship for which she is no longer king of the BBs anymore

The Kremlin is a formidable BB, the worst BB for some would be the Grober Kurfurst.

Any BB you choose to play at tier X will be an OP beast compared to any other ship class in the tier...

Oh I definitely will be getting both ships, eventually. But right now I have birthday money to spend, and I am itching to get me a new t-10. (I don't usually skip ships, but am only two away from Kremlin and I love the Russian BBs so far). I will pick up the other two I skip also, just not today . :Smile_teethhappy:

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30 minutes ago, FuBard123 said:

Oh I definitely will be getting both ships, eventually. But right now I have birthday money to spend, and I am itching to get me a new t-10. (I don't usually skip ships, but am only two away from Kremlin and I love the Russian BBs so far). I will pick up the other two I skip also, just not today . :Smile_teethhappy:

Personally I’d recommend not skipping any ship in a line (free xp-ing modules to get through the stock grind are one thing) since each can either teach something new about how the line works or how it works in the meta. Especially for the Kremlin and Yamato since neither plays like the rest of the line but has similar elements in the t10’s playstyle. 

Soyuz is actually a fun ship, since your rudder is fast enough to be able to swing all guns onto a target and get back to angled before they can take advantage of it. 

 

I know I’m in the minority when it comes to recommending that people don’t skip any ship in a line even if they don’t like the ship (like old Pensacola at t7 or Izumo), but especially don’t skip up to a 10 and pass over the 8 and 9 since the meta changes drastically once you start to see t10 battles.

The only reason I’d say skipping the last little bit of a t9 grind right now is fine is to get the super container for the t10, but that also means you’ve had experience playing in the same meta the t10 would face and have hopefully learned what the ship can teach about the line. Especially since some of the recent free xp ships have been so good and future ones may be just as good so it would be better to save free xp for that or potentially to upgrade modules instead of grinding through a stock configuration. 

Edited by MidnightPhoenix07

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Well, I don't usually skip line ships at all... but in this case I got to Vladivostok and decided to do it with my b-day money. Don't worry, I will be continuing to play Vlad and get Soyuz, since I want all of them. I didn't care much for the lower tier Russian BBs, but from Sinop up, I am really loving them. I get every ship in a line and equip all with premium camo (above t5, of course), and I don't ever sell anything with a premium camo. I can't say that about lower tiers, as I have sold some of them.

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Just keep in mind that the Kremlin's turret traverse is as fast as the Des Moines or Salem.

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8 hours ago, FuBard123 said:

Ahoy Mates,

As with my other post, I am looking for advice/opinions on which of these two BBs I should go for next.

Any opinions and information will be greatly appreciated. I've researched them, but nothing beats opinions of those who already drive them.

Thanx and Fair Seas

 

I have both and love both the Yamato and the Kremlin. Here's my thoughts.

 

1) Both have similar styles of play, they are both tankers, so either way you won't be doing a lot of moving around when confronted with the enemy. 

2) Yamato is the only battleship in the game that can over match 50m of bow plate armor at an angle. So any cruiser you face...overmatch. Only battleships that will give you issues are a angled Kremlin and a Angle GroBer Kurfurst. 

3) Yamato has an advantage of having excellent secondaries that can reach 10km...it allows you a bit more covering fire from Destroyers and other cruisers should you choose to go that route. 

4) Kremlin on the other hand has AMAZING anti-aircraft firing power, but its secondaries are kinda sad...they do good damage...they just have super short range. 

5) I would say that Yamato is a bit easier to play overall and is really competitive if you decide to go down the clan battles road. 

6) Kremlin is harder to play, its guns can't overmatch other battleships, and some cruisers give it trouble. 

7) While Yamato's guns really shine in any case and at any range (i've one shot full hp midways at max range + spotter plane..., Kremlin's only really shines when you get broadsides, and are CLOSE due to its dispersion gimick.) 

8) You really can't go wrong either, they're both good...but Yamato is more of a heavy support sniper which amplifies the power of the flank you are one. Kremlin is more of a pusher, a carefully timed push with the Kremlin can snowball out of control. 

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Yes but rn, i believe wargaming did not mention it, but i think Kremlin had revived a BIGGG NERF, dispersion, penetration(that one they mentioned), and more easily to catch fire, and can constantly receive  15,000+ dmg from the nose when nose in, from Monti or Repblique or what ever... I got Kremlin 3 months ago, and the experience has gone far worth... So i am grinding IJN bbs as well lol

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The Kremlin is now a relatively weak BB. It is barely averaging 85K damage per game, which is about 75% of its own HP.

The big problem with the Krem is that its max range is only 20km, and the ship has been designed to have very poor dispersion and accuracy at ranges above 10km, getting progressively worse as it increases.

How bad is it? Well, I've shot repeatedly at a graf zepplin, a tier 8 CV, at 16km, and watched every shot splash around it, all missing, some missing in front, some behind, some to the left, some to the right. To be clear, a CV is the biggest target in the game. Put simply, you have to close the distance with your targets to within around 10-12km, before you start hitting anything consistently. Even then, the recent dispersion nerfs will result in many misses.

The penetration angles are also quite poor. The Krem very often bounces shots from other BBs. 

Now, there is nothing wrong with a brawling BB, and the Krem has very good turret traverse. The problem is, however, it has very short secondary range, and massive exposed citadels. Not exactly what you want with a brawling BB.

Most other BBs will actually destroy you in a brawl, if they know what they are doing, especially the GKF and French BBs with hidden citadels. Even the Thunderer and Conq are harder to citadel. So, the Krem needs to be within 12km, but can't afford to brawl. If the enemy BB has troll citadels, and times their drive by correctly, they will wreck the Krem. 

There are a lot of folks who get hysterical about Russian bias, and shriek about the Krem being OP. These people have heard this said, but they don't actually play the Krem. Sure, if you point the nose in, and don't get flanked, you can tank a lot of damage, while shooting with 6 guns.

So can all other tier 10 BBs. So what?

The long range and good accuracy of IJN, French, RN and USN ships allows them to harvest damage in the early game, and to disengage from fire starting cruisers. In the Krem, you just don't have this long range option. In truth, you don't really have a medium range option, either. Many cruisers (Zoa, Moskva, Hindy) will be able to hit you with fire spam while sitting outside your max range. Even if you get them within your range, they will dodge your shells easily, unless you can close to within 12km.

In short, the Kremlin is vulnerable to citadels, it has very poor secondaries, and yet it needs to close range in order to have significant damage potential. Bear in mind, as you close range, you have no hydro. You have no consumables of any type, except heal, and you have a limited supply of damage control, too. There is no legendary module for the Krem, either.

All it ever had was its tanky HP and good guns, limited to 20km range. Now the guns are meh. It exists to be damage farmed.

It has been nerfed to the point of being very second rate, because it became fashionable in the player community to be anti-Russian.

Edited by SidTheBlade

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