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MEANN

Can anyone talk about match making?

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When will there be some consideration for balance. Not just, here is mostly the same ships on each side. However everyone on this side has skill in said boat and on the other side.....drool.

how about this, if a match is over in under 8 minutes you get half credit. Any time you can kill 12 players or 11 if a cv is in the game in less than 7 minutes. it was not a fair game. 

or something like a skunk rule. you know when we were kids and played sports outside. in and game like baseball or kickball. if the team spores like 10 runs in 1 inning, the other 8 usually means 60 to 2. 

If you kill 60% of the team in less then 5 minutes it kills the game and no one loses or wins. it sends you back into the pool of players. 

 

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9 minutes ago, MEANN said:

When will there be some consideration for balance.

Play Ranked Battle!

#RankedSkillBasedMM. 

We have a version of skill based MM in this game and that mode is called Ranked Battle. I urge all skill based MM proponents to try it out. There are three leagues in ranked and you have to earn your way into the next league by winning stars, a measurable progress metric. But I can tell you from experience, despite only the best players making it to the premiere league (R5-1), blowouts still happen. In fact, I think they happen more often because the edge of competition is sharper. which leads me to believe there is something else going on, in premier league the excuse of random poor players loses credibility, and therefore I argue  that lanchester principles apply. I really like the challenge in the premier league, that means, I am for skilled based MM.

HOWEVER... every ranked season (not sprints), I also observe an equivalent number of "Ranked hate posts" as the cry for "skill based MM". In every post ranked stat review Ive seen, Most players stop at R10, less than 5% rank out, and less players played rank season 13 than Ranked season 12.... Therefore I conclude the majority of players don't want skill based MM. And I assume that's because most players don't like the pressure!

Edited by skillztowin
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2 minutes ago, MEANN said:

When will there be some consideration for balance. Not just, here is mostly the same ships on each side. However everyone on this side has skill in said boat and on the other side.....drool.

how about this, if a match is over in under 8 minutes you get half credit. Any time you can kill 12 players or 11 if a cv is in the game in less than 7 minutes. it was not a fair game. 

or something like a skunk rule. you know when we were kids and played sports outside. in and game like baseball or kickball. if the team spores like 10 runs in 1 inning, the other 8 usually means 60 to 2. 

If you kill 60% of the team in less then 5 minutes it kills the game and no one loses or wins. it sends you back into the pool of players. 

 

What you're calling the "skunk rule" is also known as the Mercy Rule.

 

Also, I think that it's unfair to the players on the winning team who entered the match in good faith to punish them in the ways you describe above.  Better to just create skill based MM.  But be aware that you can have massacres in battles between two perfectly balanced teams.  And it'd still be unfair to the players on the winning team to only give them half credit for the battle, or abort the battle if one side is killing the other team "too quickly".

 

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They have made it clear that they believe they know what is best for the game, and will die on that hill if needed.  There are very simple changes that could be made to enhance the competitiveness of games (on average), but they won't do it.  The only conclusion we can come to is that they are happy with where things are.  They are probably using the old "Players that lose will spend money to win" philosophy to justify that behind the scenes like most games do.

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stalinselecting.gif

dat freedom of speech WG has on this forum lately tho. 

Edited by Rabbitt81
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Matchmaking has been an issue since I started playing. Prior to the carrier rework, matchmaking was the most cited reason in "I Quit" posts here and on Reddit. Matchmaking was the second most cited reason on Steam for negative reviews of the game in those instances where people left actual comments. The inability to merge standard WoWS accounts with Steam accounts beat it out. Wargaming has stated several times that Matchmaking was fine and saw no issues with it. Course then they tinkered with it a few times which tells me that they are being less than truthful about what they are saying.

Whether you like current matchmaking or not, there is a problem because we keep bringing the issue up. It goes to game balance as every ship is balanced by tier, not by what tiers they will meet in battle. Whether this helps a person's win rate or not is irrelevant. It is about leveling the playing field and designing a game that is fair to all players. 

EDIT: Just an aside, the second most cited reason here and on Reddit given for "I Quit" posts was that "you people suck". Course I never figured out whether that meant the players sucked or if Wargaming sucked.... It always made me chuckle. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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Hello.

I've been playing WG games since WOT Closed Beta.

With 33k battles in tanks I have some insight to MM.

From purely WOT, running XVM, their is NO skilled MM. 65% of the matches will be lopsided skill wise. 

Transferring the same MM algorithm to WOWS has occurred. Running the same type of MM monitor shows lopsided teams based on skill. This DOES NOT take into consideration any Radar mismatch.

WG has stated MM is ship TYPE MM ONLY. 

They are OK with this and not likely to chang MM.

 

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19 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

 

EDIT: Just an aside, the second most cited reason here and on Reddit given for "I Quit" posts was that "you people suck". Course I never figured out whether that meant the players sucked or if Wargaming sucked.... It always made me chuckle. 

If in reference to the players, I wonder if they meant sucking in game or sucking in general?

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Want to enjoy the game more?  Stop worrying about the MM and just play.

Players should spend more time working on their gameplay than wasting that time in the forums.  It would improve the quality of play for everyone.

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15 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Want to enjoy the game more?  Stop worrying about the MM and just play.

Players should spend more time working on their gameplay than wasting that time in the forums.  It would improve the quality of play for everyone.

When the forum is more entertaining than the game...there's a problem.

The problem is with MM.

I would like the problem to go bye-bye.

Problem go bye-bye with alerting players to what the problem is on the more fun forum.

Edited by Rabbitt81
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Just now, Rabbitt81 said:

When the forum is more entertaining than the game...there's a problem somewhere.

I would like the problem to go bye-bye.

There is no problem. Once you realize that, you'll start doing much better.

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2 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

There is no problem. Once you realize that, you'll start doing much better.

Trying to use the force now?

Ya nice try Obi-Wan Cannoli.

force.gif

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6 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

There is no problem.

Of course not, everyone is imagining things. Your assertion is absurd. 

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10 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

There is no problem. Once you realize that, you'll start doing much better.

Want to enjoy the game more?  Stop worrying about the MM and just play.

Players should spend more time working on their gameplay than wasting that time in the forums.  It would improve the quality of play for everyone.

it's like saying if [edited] is unavoidable, learn to enjoy it, lol

Edited by Happy668

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1 minute ago, Taylor3006 said:

Of course not, everyone is imagining things. Your assertion is absurd. 

No more absurd than all the whining, complaints, moaning and groaning.

 

 

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Not sure how to fix it but I wouldn't mind having a separate MM for the sub 300-400 pr players that have red stats on every ship and every tier, just take the :.....: off the bot's names and throw them unknowingly into co-op and let them have at it. 

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seriously, the core factor that determines gaming experience is the MM, so the failure of this game to keep and grow playerbase is the failure of MM, period

it's not sound, not lack of CV or subs, not lack of new ships, not lack of game modes, it's the MM

Edited by Happy668
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37 minutes ago, Crucis said:

What you're calling the "skunk rule" is also known as the Mercy Rule.

Also, I think that it's unfair to the players on the winning team who entered the match in good faith to punish them in the ways you describe above.  Better to just create skill based MM.  But be aware that you can have massacres in battles between two perfectly balanced teams.  And it'd still be unfair to the players on the winning team to only give them half credit for the battle, or abort the battle if one side is killing the other team "too quickly".

We've had these discussion before and there is no way to implement a "skill based" MM....  Because "skill itself is not defined...."  As I have said before, when a few innovation game developers created Combat Effectiveness (CE) models, they went and intentionally "define skill" as a metric, a hard standard and did so based on "optimal values" considered relevant to the game.  Like ELO did for chess.......  What they found was more a great idea that simply, in these older games, not work !  This isn't a self learning, AI driven modern game that uses "Knowledge Based" as part of a players normal play....  In other words, these prototype games learn what you know, what you can do and assess your level of competency/growth to "push you to where your skill maxes out..."  CE makes your profile specific to each class, mode and map and all play combinations evolve as you play....  Whom your matched with, never in groups larger than four players, is as close to "skill equity"  as you are going to get.........but, it takes months to develop the large amount of data to do the analysis......   And then, feeling start to get hurt.  The "I'm better than that" syndrome....  OUCH !  

So, my friend, what is skill?  What could we use that hasn't been skewed by using game exploits???  Like intentionally play in lower tiers to maximize those values??  And, even if we use base XP earned, is that divided by class of ship or mode of play or event's influences on those metrics???   I may be a potato and at 47% considered below some "average" but, there are far more of me than the 60% that "play the same way I do..."

What you said is correct and MM aren't the only issues we face.....

 

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3 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

it's like saying if [edited] is unavoidable, learn to enjoy it, lol

MM isn't going to change.  Options:

1. You can constantly be annoyed with, complain about it, let if affect your gameplay..........still not going to change.

2. You can accept the fact that it isn't going to change, choose to see it as a non-issue and not let it affect your gameplay.

It's that simple.

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What I believe what is bringing MM problems to a head is the addition of the high tier broken OP ships that have been released lately.

A match where the higher win-rate team has a couple of these OP ships has made the lopsided matches even more unbearable to play.

This is an issue that WG needs to address.

Edited by Rabbitt81

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4 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

No more absurd than all the whining, complaints, moaning and groaning.

And quitting, don't forget players quitting because of matchmaking................... 

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I think if weegee gave us a skill based MM, the forums would explode in saying how unfair it is, that they have been stuck with plebs, fighting plebs, and when their WR goes up 1% and they move up to the next level of skill based MM, then they will complain about being in a game where they can't do any damage as there are people who are now so much better in that level of MM.

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1 minute ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

MM isn't going to change.  Options:

1. You can constantly be annoyed with, complain about it, let if affect your gameplay..........still not going to change.

2. You can accept the fact that it isn't going to change, choose to see it as a non-issue and not let it affect your gameplay.

It's that simple.

How about YOU accept-no, wait, adapt-that's the buzzword you people like to throw in our faces-that people are gonna complain about it.

 

Edited by Rabbitt81

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Just now, Taylor3006 said:

And quitting, don't forget players quitting because of matchmaking................... 

Players quit for all sorts of reasons.  I quit for an entire year because I sucked.........but I didn't blame MM or anything else for that.

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